The Problem is "Liturgy Committees"

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For several years, my parish has suffered because of the influence allowed our “liturgy committee.” This has become magnified in recent years as we have also had to endure a series of short-tenured pastors. In fact we are waiting for our next pastor as I type.

The problem that I see is that the “liturgy committee” meets at 10:00am on Tuesdays when most people are working. Their meetings are not advertised, they are closed to non-members and they never publish minutes or blurbs in the bulletin. The membership is also horribly inbred and borders on the inept and arrogant.

What they do is impose “changes” to an already problematic liturgy. They are also good at saying “no” to things like the use of sanctus bells, etc.

This is in sharp contrast to the Latino community at my parish that simply has rejected their intrusion. It’s wonderful to see them plan a Mass. Everyone is around the table – from our parochial vicar (he leads our Latino community) to music ministers to EMsHC to altar servers, etc.

With our new pastor due in 4-6 months, what would be a good way to re-take some of the ground gained by our “liturgy committee?” Our parochial vicar won’t get involved as he already has his hands full.

Any (name removed by moderator)ut would be appreciated.
 
Without the ability to remove them education is in order. Educate them about the GIRM, RS and other Liturgical Documents.

Then educate those around you so that there is some parish pressure for them to straighten out.
 
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buffalo:
Without the ability to remove them education is in order. Educate them about the GIRM, RS and other Liturgical Documents.

Then educate those around you so that there is some parish pressure for them to straighten out.
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I second the above. Also there is the bishop, the Vatican.
 
Pray that you get a pastor that will stay for awhile, and also that has the gumption to disband them.

There really should be no “liturgy committee”. Is the GIRM not enough?
 
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Tired:
For several years, my parish has suffered because of the influence allowed our “liturgy committee.” This has become magnified in recent years as we have also had to endure a series of short-tenured pastors. In fact we are waiting for our next pastor as I type.

The problem that I see is that the “liturgy committee” meets at 10:00am on Tuesdays when most people are working. Their meetings are not advertised, they are closed to non-members and they never publish minutes or blurbs in the bulletin. The membership is also horribly inbred and borders on the inept and arrogant.

What they do is impose “changes” to an already problematic liturgy. They are also good at saying “no” to things like the use of sanctus bells, etc.

This is in sharp contrast to the Latino community at my parish that simply has rejected their intrusion. It’s wonderful to see them plan a Mass. Everyone is around the table – from our parochial vicar (he leads our Latino community) to music ministers to EMsHC to altar servers, etc.

With our new pastor due in 4-6 months, what would be a good way to re-take some of the ground gained by our “liturgy committee?” Our parochial vicar won’t get involved as he already has his hands full.

Any (name removed by moderator)ut would be appreciated.
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Whys is a liturgy committee even needed? I know that in these days of self gratification and laity involvement in just about everything they are pretty much a fact of life, but where is the pastor? Why haven’t they stood up?

I would say if the congregation as a rule feels the same as you just tell the liturgical comitte to take a hike. As far as I know they occupy no special position in the administration of the parish. It appears that the latino side of the house has things well in hand.

Get rid of them or ignore them. As far as I know they have no real authority anyway.
 
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ComradeAndrei:
Pray that you get a pastor that will stay for awhile, and also that has the gumption to disband them.

There really should be no “liturgy committee”. Is the GIRM not enough?
Click to expand...
Indeed. The Church did not need them before and doesn’t need them now. Unless of course they are in charge of the entertainment. 😦 :banghead:
 
RE - Whys is a liturgy committee even needed?

They shouldn’t be inventing liturgies. Our committee, working with the priests and deacons, digures out what is required for each celebration, then works on coordinating the resources.

Should the Consecration candles be lit [only for solemnities]? Who is going to light them? When?

How many ushers do we need? Are there reserved seats? How many?

How many altar servers? Incense? Holy water?

What decorations are required? When will the church be clear to put them up?

Is a worship aid needed? Who is going to prepare it? Does it need approval, or are we copying last years?

etc. etc. etc.

And most important - what have we forgotten?
 
Joe Kelley:
RE - Whys is a liturgy committee even needed?

They shouldn’t be inventing liturgies. Our committee, working with the priests and deacons, digures out what is required for each celebration, then works on coordinating the resources.

Should the Consecration candles be lit [only for solemnities]? Who is going to light them? When?

How many ushers do we need? Are there reserved seats? How many?

How many altar servers? Incense? Holy water?

What decorations are required? When will the church be clear to put them up?

Is a worship aid needed? Who is going to prepare it? Does it need approval, or are we copying last years?

etc. etc. etc.

And most important - what have we forgotten?
Click to expand...
I just don’t know how this all got done for thousands of years?
 
Joe Kelley:
RE - Whys is a liturgy committee even needed?

They shouldn’t be inventing liturgies. Our committee, working with the priests and deacons, digures out what is required for each celebration, then works on coordinating the resources.

Should the Consecration candles be lit [only for solemnities]? Who is going to light them? When?

How many ushers do we need? Are there reserved seats? How many?

How many altar servers? Incense? Holy water?

What decorations are required? When will the church be clear to put them up?

Is a worship aid needed? Who is going to prepare it? Does it need approval, or are we copying last years?

etc. etc. etc.

And most important - what have we forgotten?
Click to expand...
If the Liturgy Committee is in charge of logistics - the altar boy schedule, the EMHC schedule, ordering Easter Flowers, getting the fire going for Easter Vigil, Usher schedule, reserving seats for First Communicants, etc. that is one thing. It takes these everyday details away from the priest or deacon and frees up their time. The problem starts to creep in when the ‘Committees’ get creative with the Mass - not the logistics that support the Mass. There’s a big difference.
 
Go to your pastor. These clickish elitish liturgy committees who ignore the teachings of the church need to follow the church guidelines on the liturgy. Ask him to appoint you and a few others whom you recommend to the committee, have him set meetings times so people who work can attend, and invite him to attend as well (in the early ones, where you are fighting to get obedience to the GERM.)
 
For several years, my parish has suffered because of the influence allowed our “liturgy committee.”
Click to expand...
It’s much easy to gripe about your committee and about liturgy committees in general. But if you have one so firmly entrenched don’t expect it to go away without a battle. My point is be realistic about what you and a bunch of anonymous posters on a message board can do. Saying that the Church survived for centuries without liturgy committees will not make your liturgy committee go away or change. But perhaps your incoming pastor can make some small changes.
The problem that I see is that the “liturgy committee” meets at 10:00am on Tuesdays when most people are working. Their meetings are not advertised, they are closed to non-members and they never publish minutes or blurbs in the bulletin. The membership is also horribly inbred and borders on the inept and arrogant.
Click to expand...
I know it is easy for me to type this. But any committee needs to have time limits for membership and some means to ‘refresh’ itself. In fact, most liturgy committee literature says the same thing. Hold them to what is probably their own standards.
What they do is impose “changes” to an already problematic liturgy. They are also good at saying “no” to things like the use of sanctus bells, etc.
Click to expand...
It’s been my experience that liturgy practices are added or abandoned for a reason. It may not be a good reason but there is a reason. In the case of sanctus bells the reason for eliminating them is usually because someone decided they support inattentiveness during the consecration and are thus a sign of disrespect. If you want sanctus bells back you better be able to explain why bells are actually a means of showing honor to the Blessed Sacrament.
This is in sharp contrast to the Latino community at my parish that simply has rejected their intrusion. It’s wonderful to see them plan a Mass. Everyone is around the table – from our parochial vicar (he leads our Latino community) to music ministers to EMsHC to altar servers, etc.
Click to expand...
It looks to me that is there is at least an informal Latino liturgy committee. It is just smaller. Unless you have a really big table then there must just be representatives from the different groups.
With our new pastor due in 4-6 months, what would be a good way to re-take some of the ground gained by our “liturgy committee?” Our parochial vicar won’t get involved as he already has his hands full.
Click to expand...
I have no idea whether you have any power over what happens in your parish. Perhaps you can find a way to point out to your pastor how well you think the Latino community handles things. If your pastor agrees with your perspective perhaps he will want to “remodel” the existing liturgy committee. Liturgy committees are usually big on remodeling.
 
Maybe this will help.

Top Vatican Cardinal Slams “Do-It-Yourself” Liturgies
April 06, 2006

Signs are growing that Pope Benedict XVI intends to bring the liturgy back to a more traditional form after a top Vatican official protested the use of “Do-it-Yourself” services. In a keynote speech delivered at Westminster Cathedral recently, Cardinal Francis Arinze, Prefect of the Congregation for Divine Worship and Discipline of the Sacraments, also said that individual priests should not add to or subtract from the approved rites, mentioning the practice of playing background music in particular as one practice that should stop. “The Mass is the most solemn action of the sacred liturgy, which is itself the public worship of the Church,” the cardinal said. "‘Liturgy’, says Pope John Paul II, ‘is never anyone’s private property, be it of the celebrant or of the community in which the mysteries are celebrated. Priests who faithfully celebrate Mass according to the liturgical norms, and communities which conform to those norms, quietly but eloquently demonstrate their love for the Church’. “It follows that individuals, whether they be priests or lay faithful, are not free to add or subtract any details in the approved rites of the celebration of the Holy Eucharist. A do-it-yourself mentality, an attitude of nobody-will-tell-me-what-to-do, or a defiant sting of if-you-do-not-like-my-Mass-you-can-go-to-another-parish, is not only against sound theology and ecclesiology, but also offends against common sense. Unfortunately, sometimes common sense is not very common, when we see a priest ignoring liturgical rules and installing creativity, in his case personal idiosyncrasy, as the guide to the celebration of Holy Mass. Our faith guides us and our love of Jesus and of his Church safeguards us from taking such unwholesome liberties. Aware that we are only ministers, not masters of the mysteries of Christ.” The cardinal’s comments come a week after proposals were announced by a Vatican commission to outlaw the use of drums and electric guitars from church services. The commission outlined 50 proposals on reforming the liturgy, with Vatican insiders saying that the commission also proposed to increase the use of Latin during Mass. But Fr Tom Jordon from the National Conference of Priests, said he was unaware of any deviation from the Rubrics provided by the Roman Missal in the nation’s churches but added that since Vatican II in was inevitable that the personality of priests shone through during Mass.

angelqueen.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6699
 
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buffalo:
Without the ability to remove them education is in order. Educate them about the GIRM, RS and other Liturgical Documents.

Then educate those around you so that there is some parish pressure for them to straighten out.
Click to expand...
I appreciate the (name removed by moderator)ut but they reject most references to the documents you mentioned. Add to the fact that many things “fall through the cracks” and I suppose it finally becomes an issue of getting a pastor with wisdom and guts…
 
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Elzee:
If the Liturgy Committee is in charge of logistics - the altar boy schedule, the EMHC schedule, ordering Easter Flowers, getting the fire going for Easter Vigil, Usher schedule, reserving seats for First Communicants, etc. that is one thing. It takes these everyday details away from the priest or deacon and frees up their time. The problem starts to creep in when the ‘Committees’ get creative with the Mass - not the logistics that support the Mass. There’s a big difference.
Click to expand...
Many times the logistics drive the Mass, unfortunately…
 
Joe Kelley:
RE - Whys is a liturgy committee even needed?

They shouldn’t be inventing liturgies. Our committee, working with the priests and deacons, digures out what is required for each celebration, then works on coordinating the resources.

Should the Consecration candles be lit [only for solemnities]? Who is going to light them? When?

How many ushers do we need? Are there reserved seats? How many?

How many altar servers? Incense? Holy water?

What decorations are required? When will the church be clear to put them up?

Is a worship aid needed? Who is going to prepare it? Does it need approval, or are we copying last years?

etc. etc. etc.

And most important - what have we forgotten?
Click to expand...
“Consecration candles?” What are those?
 
T.A.Stobie:
Go to your pastor. These clickish elitish liturgy committees who ignore the teachings of the church need to follow the church guidelines on the liturgy. Ask him to appoint you and a few others whom you recommend to the committee, have him set meetings times so people who work can attend, and invite him to attend as well (in the early ones, where you are fighting to get obedience to the GERM.)
Click to expand...
Please re-read my original posting regarding the status of our pastor.
 
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SMHW:
It’s much easy to gripe about your committee and about liturgy committees in general. But if you have one so firmly entrenched don’t expect it to go away without a battle. My point is be realistic about what you and a bunch of anonymous posters on a message board can do. Saying that the Church survived for centuries without liturgy committees will not make your liturgy committee go away or change. But perhaps your incoming pastor can make some small changes…
Click to expand...
Indeed. I have seen truly cut-throat and desperate responses to changing or shutting-down committees in the past. I do have a feeling that a time of reckoning is coming for many committees at my parish.
 
A common joke I’ve heard is what’s the difference between a liturgist and a terrorist? You can negotiate with a terrorist.

Before the widespread adoption of intransigent liturgy committees, you had intransigent priests who had a peculiar way of doing the mass and it was his way or no way. The committee simply makes it possible for the laity to join in the intransigence.

Change tends to come when you get enough pew sitters irritated or a new parish priest comes who has an interest in change.
 
Tired said:
“Consecration candles?” What are those?
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I think they are the candles that were lit at the dedication of the church- our church has four, and they are hung symmetrically on the interior wall of the church, two at the front and two at the back.
 
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