We show our own love by doing whatever we can to right the wrongs that present themselves to us in this world. To that extent, we’re given the power to be God here-to be His hands or not. By the way we help or fail to help we reveal how much we really value love - how much we really value God. If we blame Him for not doing all He could do-but haven’t done much that we could do, we show that we really don’t care anyway. This world is an exile from God, Adam & Eve having rejected His godhood so to speak, where man’s will reigns and we’re asked the question, should this be so?-are things really better this way?-how will we live* our* lives given the freedom to do more or less as we will?
In the Hebrew Scriptures (The Old Testament) there is a passage that talks about a time when God was the King of the nation. It was truly a Theocracy but, the people saw that the nations that were all around them were governed by human kings.
1)Could you cite the scriptures in the Hebrew Bible for that?
Hello my friend,
Thank you for your answer Manny.
Its somewhat like having your wisdom teeth removed. Nobody likes that, it hurts and is just generally unpleasant, yet it has to be done to prevent larger problems later in life.
Straw, m’main man!
Well, a properly functioning Monarchy with a GOOD monarch is still the best system of government. It is efficient, inexpensive to maintain, and accountable (since everyone can point to one person and know who runs what).
Pieman it is because you are not getting the right answers to your questions. First of all let me recommend to you any talks from Fr.John Corapi and his DVD’s will enable you to answer all your doubts. I can explain a bit here if you will like. The question why God allows evil and suffering is this. To arrive at a better good. Look at the Cross of Christ to see this. Christ suffered terribly and we killed Him. But look what happened. What is seemingly evil and terrible brought out the greatest good ever. The Redemption of mankind. It is difficult to see good when evil seems to triumph. It takes a Saint and a very wise person to see beyond it. The real reason why there is suffering and evil is not because what is out there. That is not the problem. What we are seeing are visible eruptions of another type of problem. The problem is not what is out there. The problem is in each and everyone of us. The problem is sin. And for sin to be eradictated it must be dwelt with at one person at a time. The cure is there but it takes sacrifice and penance and patience if it is to be dwelt with. There is no other cure than the One who can give it and that is Our Lord Jesus Christ. Jesus is the antidote for all the poison we put ourselves into. You say why is God not fixing it? Well He is Pieman but He does this one person at a time. He is fixing alot of people. Many have been brought back to the Light. But Pieman you must understand and Catholics and Orthodox are all guilty of this as well am I that God needs our participation if He is going to " fix " the world. God has ordained that He will do nothing until the Church prays and ask for Him. God has the power to do anything but He has limited Himself and really has willed Himself to be dependent on His Church. That means God will not act at all until prayer is made before Him. Therefore the responsibilty of the world really rests on our shoulders. You cannot get away from it. God will not let you get away with it. He has made each and everyone of us responsible. Now that does not mean I have to do everything. On the contrary you are to do your bit for God and nation. But is it not great that God can do it as long as we will do our part. Man prayer moves the hand who made the world. If the world is crumbling before us as we see it on the news that tells me that the Church is not praying. God depends on our prayers so that He can give His Lifesaving Graces and Mercies to the world and especially to sinners. Only 20% of Catholics go to Mass every week and you wonder why the world is crumbling!! The reason for this mess is that the majority of Catholics are not praying. Thank God for at least the chosen ones who will carry this load and these burdens until the rest of the 80% wake up and do their part. God can do it but He needs our prayers and our participation. Let us attack this evil in the world one person at a time. Let us pray individually for those persons while been Catholic have decided not to do anything. Catholics who won’t do anything need God too. And God needs them as well. Let us give them God. Pray for someone you know who has been hurt or into drugs or whatever and ask God to fill them with the Holy Spirit. You will be amazed and astonished what God can do with your prayers. May I recommend the Divine Mercy devotions to pray for these devotions are medicines for our times. If you think about it when I said that God is dependent on our prayers, this is the reason why He sends Himself or His Holy Mother during times of dryness with apparitions to erupt in us faith again so that we will pray to Him or to His Holy Mother. He needs our prayers. He needs each and everyone of us.
Can you devise a worthwhile world entirely free from hardship and suffering?
Are you never prepared to sacrifice yourself for others even if it entails being tortured and killed?
The only menacing beast is within yourself! And everyone else who has free will…
The fact that you recognise the reality of evil implies that you recognise the inadequacy of materialism… How do you explain the reality of goodness and the immense value of existence? Do they occur by accident?
It just means the God you reject is a distortion of reality!
Of course I can! Can’t you? Just imagine a world with God, and a few other minds which experience only happiness.
Maybe, but I don’t see how that’s relevant. God didn’t need to have himself tortured. That’s just what he wanted to have happen, for some strange and unknown reason.
What does the existence of evil have to do with materialism? A materialist might simply describe evil as a property of material systems, or give another of a any number of accounts of evil which are compatible with materialism (to the extent that materialism is intelligible, at least).
Mind if I answer? (It is, after all, my thread) How can you appreciate perfection in the world with no pain? Even in heaven, we will have the memories of an imperfect life to remind us how amazing the place is.
God’s torture of his Son was done solely for the reason to demonstrate his love for us. Sure, he could have said “you’re saved now, 'K bye”, but think about it. If by his sacrifice, he saved us, we would know in our hearts he loved us.
Not all unbelievers will go to hell. Those who follow the teachings of Jesus, and seek God with a sincere heart, will be saved, perhaps after a period of purgation. This is different from Universalism, note. The atheists and agnostics who hate God, or who don’t seek him, or live unjust lives, will not be saved, however.
I’m not entirely sure what he meant, and I don’t get involved in materialism vs dualism, so I’ll let Tony answer.
That’s a non-sequitur. God’s allowance of evil in the world doesn’t make him evil. Considering the easy-in paradise for an afterlife, the presence of good in the world, and the morals he has given us, both through natural law and his Son’s teaching, I would say he is a good God, if not omnibenevolent. Some of the conclusions non-theists reach with the problem of evil are honestly absurd. And being evil doesn’t make God not exist, it makes him not omnibenevolent, which is not required for his existence.
I don’t mind at all! I’m happy to talk to any number of people!
I’m sure God had his reasons, but they could not have included a desire to show us love, because, on one hand, he can show us love using alternative means, including simply implanting the knowledge of his love in our minds, and on the other hand, self-torture is not an expression of love.
Oh, sure; I’m sorry if I was imprecise. But my point is, for those people who go to Hell, it can only be because that’s what the omnipotent and omniscient creator of the universe wants. And a being who has human souls tortured eternally is a hideous monster.
Sorry if I was unclear, but I was NOT suggesting that God is evil because he allows evil in the world, nor was I arguing against the existence of God (cf. my earlier post). Instead, I’m suggesting that God is evil because he desires that human souls be tortured for eternity, and indeed He carries out that evil desire.
Let me interject one thought here. The statement, “for those people who go to Hell, it can only be because that’s what the omnipotent and omniscient creator of the universe wants” is true only if the concept of human freewill (and, consequently, human moral responsibility), is invalid-God’s omnipotence and omniscience notwithstanding.
If a concept of free will is at odds with the fact that an omnipotent and omniscient being will always get exactly what he wants, then it must be flawed in some way. Not all concepts of free will have that consequence, though.