The Problem of Evolution

[SamCA]

johnshelby:

as for creating new species… i’m not sure about that,
i’m not up to snuff on the newest stuff… but, i believe that
humans will be essentially the same, until the end of the
world… and undoubtedly for the foreseeable future…

but, i am willing to learn… lol

Consider this – we are already capable of integrating computers into our brains. We’re getting even better at it every year. The ultimate goal is to have true integration – to be able to connect computers to the brain in such a way as to be accessible by the mind, or even to become part of the mind.

Now consider this. There is a Japanese company which has set a goal (which they seem likely to achieve) of building a computer with as much processing power as the human brain by the end of this decade. Assuming the current rate of advancement in computing technology continues, within two years after that, the maximum processing power will have doubled (or, alternately, it will take a computer only half the size to get the same processing power).

Carry this trend out, and within a few decades you’re looking at computers many millions of times more powerful than our brains.

Now, let’s come back to the first bit, and think about the possibilities of integrating these computers into our brains. There is theoretically no reason why we shouldn’t be able to incorporate these machines into our brains, as “upgrades” if you will. Imagine the ability to upgrade the human mind to make people more intelligent by entire orders of magnitude – would this qualify as a new kind of person?

Now, one could argue that this hypothetical cyborg is still biologically a member of our species, even if he may not be traditionally human in a mental sense. But why would mechanical integration stop there? Our human bodies are extremely fragile, and they only last a matter of decades. If we could replace failing bodies with sturdier, longer-lasting mechanical prosthetics, we would almost certainly do so. Eventually, you’d be left with a being that bears no more resemblance to us than it would to any other primate. At that point, even if it began as a member of our species, I think you would have to consider it something else, wouldn’t you?

 

[buffalo]

SamCA:

Consider this – we are already capable of integrating computers into our brains. We’re getting even better at it every year. The ultimate goal is to have true integration – to be able to connect computers to the brain in such a way as to be accessible by the mind, or even to become part of the mind.

Now consider this. There is a Japanese company which has set a goal (which they seem likely to achieve) of building a computer with as much processing power as the human brain by the end of this decade. Assuming the current rate of advancement in computing technology continues, within two years after that, the maximum processing power will have doubled (or, alternately, it will take a computer only half the size to get the same processing power).

Carry this trend out, and within a few decades you’re looking at computers many millions of times more powerful than our brains.

Now, let’s come back to the first bit, and think about the possibilities of integrating these computers into our brains. There is theoretically no reason why we shouldn’t be able to incorporate these machines into our brains, as “upgrades” if you will. Imagine the ability to upgrade the human mind to make people more intelligent by entire orders of magnitude – would this qualify as a new kind of person?

Now, one could argue that this hypothetical cyborg is still biologically a member of our species, even if he may not be traditionally human in a mental sense. But why would mechanical integration stop there? Our human bodies are extremely fragile, and they only last a matter of decades. If we could replace failing bodies with sturdier, longer-lasting mechanical prosthetics, we would almost certainly do so. Eventually, you’d be left with a being that bears no more resemblance to us than it would to any other primate. At that point, even if it began as a member of our species, I think you would have to consider it something else, wouldn’t you?

At what point would they lose their soul?

 

[johnshelby]

intergrating a mechanical device into your body isn’t
evolution… or even intergrating a biological device wouldn’t
be…

and this laptop is already way sharper than me… lol

the technological things you are describing are amazing,
especially to someone who was amazed when he saw his
first credit card calculator… lol but, they are still technological…
built… not created…

even the biological memory banks they have created… where
information is imprinted on protien thru electrical current… is
still technology…

i believe that humans will continue to grow, as we learn more
about ourselves and the universe… i think it’s gotta happen, like
i said, we were created in God’s image… Jesus said if we had
the faith of a mustard seed, we could move a mountain, by
wishing it so…

who knows, maybe someday we’ll attain that faith, maybe
someday we’ll be able to visit the stars, simply by wishing
it so…

lets start praying for it now, before i get too old… lol

 

[SamCA]

buffalo:

At what point would they lose their soul?

I was hoping you’d tell me.

Seriously, if – as discussed above – the soul is somehow intimately tied to the body, would the soul be considered to leave at such a time when there’s none of the original body left? Or is there simply no Catholic position on something that strange?

What about the question of a new, genetically engineered species? If their DNA were even, oh, five percent different than our own, they’d already be drastically further separated from us than chimpanzees, and so presumably no longer homo sapiens. Here, you’d have someone that was genuinely born a separate species – would they get a soul?

And here’s a head scratcher from current science, right here in the present: Chimeras. Through the use of stem cell research, we’ve learned how to create hybrids of multiple species. Right now, at this moment, there are pigs, mice, and various other animals with human organs, human blood, etc. There are mice whose brains are 1% human. There are plans to create mice with 100% human brains – and it is theorized that these mice might just, um, accidentally, have humanlike intelligence, although they hope they won’t. Would they have souls?

 

[PureGrace]

johnshelby:

i believe life forms change… evolve…

i believe God created all …

i believe anyone who thinks life on this planet
was an accident is deluding themselves…

by the same token…

i believe anyone who thinks they understand the way
God created anything at all, is deluding themselves…

Totally. I agree exactly with your statements. Well said.

Katherine

 

[buffalo]

SamCA:

I was hoping you’d tell me.

Seriously, if – as discussed above – the soul is somehow intimately tied to the body, would the soul be considered to leave at such a time when there’s none of the original body left? Or is there simply no Catholic position on something that strange?

What about the question of a new, genetically engineered species? If their DNA were even, oh, five percent different than our own, they’d already be drastically further separated from us than chimpanzees, and so presumably no longer homo sapiens. Here, you’d have someone that was genuinely born a separate species – would they get a soul?

And here’s a head scratcher from current science, right here in the present: Chimeras. Through the use of stem cell research, we’ve learned how to create hybrids of multiple species. Right now, at this moment, there are pigs, mice, and various other animals with human organs, human blood, etc. There are mice whose brains are 1% human. There are plans to create mice with 100% human brains – and it is theorized that these mice might just, um, accidentally, have humanlike intelligence, although they hope they won’t. Would they have souls?

I do not know the answer? I will surmise - since God created Adam and Eve and they were the first to receive an immortal soul, they were FULLY human. If we are not fully human our sould will lose its immortality. Anyone else have some thoughts on this?

 

[mike182d]

johnshelby:

i believe life forms change… evolve…

i believe God created all …

Did the Ford Mustang evolve? Is its transformation at the hands of an intelligent creator(s) from the '64 model to the '05 model true “evolution?”

Is the transformation of species at the hands of an intelligent creator over millions of years true “evolution” as the scientific community has defined it?

 

[johnshelby]

i guess i’d have to know how the scientific community defines
it to answer that question…

and i believe there are probably as many scientific definitions
as there are definitions in the dictionary…

but, i guess in the strictest sense, everyone
would have to agree on one thing… evolution has to be directed…
maybe we don’t necessarily agree on Who or what does
that directing…

 

[SamCA]

johnshelby:

but, i guess in the strictest sense, everyone
would have to agree on one thing… evolution has to be directed…
maybe we don’t necessarily agree on Who or what does
that directing…

Sure. Even atheistic evolution isn’t actually random. It’s directed by the dictates of survival in the species’ environment.

 

[JimG]

Imagine the ability to upgrade the human mind to make people more intelligent by entire orders of magnitude – would this qualify as a new kind of person?

One thing for sure, we would be continuously bombarded by the manufacturer with the need to install new service packs, and security upgrades, along with versions 2.0, 3.0, and to be always watching out for spambots, hackers, viruses, and worms.

 

[johnshelby]

well, i hope it’s avaliable on public terminals and not just
private, i have dial-up… i’d be outmoded all the time… lol