The problem of good

[marymmma]

My son who died three years ago at age 28, was in constant pain and suffering. He would pray every day for God to help him. I prayed almost all the time for the same thing. Sometimes we would talk about why God allowed suffering and why does he help some people and not others. He had his own theory about this. He believed that God allowed some people to suffer in order to pay the price for all the people who lived the good life, so to speak. I would always tell him that wasn’t true but he truly believed it and after he died I sort of could understand where he was coming from. It started making some sense to me what he was going through and maybe thinking this way was due to brain damage caused by a constant lack of oxygen due to lethal sleep apnea that was one of the things that killed him.

When I saw the title of this thread, I wanted to share this because that’s exactly how he felt.

 

[BobCatholic]

You have a different cross to bear.

Which I’m not exempt from.

This is patently false.

You’re exempt from that cross which I’m not.

No one is.

There are people exempt from the cross.

 

[BobCatholic]

So you are saying that God is unjust. Why do you keep faith on God?

Because the other guy is far worse.

Let me get this straight. Someone prays for their child and the child is cured. You pray for a job and you are still out of work. And you are ticked off because, hey, the system seems not to be working…

No.

God loves other people more than me. Simple as that.

I dunno…maybe pray for sick kids instead of yourself and see what happens. What can you lose.

Fine, more people get exempt from the cross while I get overwhelmed by my cross.

 

[BobCatholic]

You said, “God cares about something” and you are right, God cares about your soul.

And that’s all. The rest of me he hates. God hates my body, God hates the temporal part of me.

Jesus is very clear that when we ask, we will receive when we seek we will find and when we knock the door will be opened to you. But is that your experience?

Which means Christ broke his promise.

Some times we can ask and ask and beg and it appears that our prayers go unanswered.

All prayers are answered. Mine gets a “no”

nothing more and nothing less. Only his perfect will.

If God’s will was perfect, why am I created imperfect per his will?

Reflect today upon the way you pray. Try to change your prayer that it seeks the good things God wants to bestow

Because God only cares about the spiritual and not about the temporal. He expects us to take care of the temporal. Oh, and no guarantee that temporal needs will be met. Scale waaaaaaaay out of balance here.

 

[BobCatholic]

As Fr. Henry Wansbrough eloquently puts it in his notes to the Book of Job, this “problem” is a problem only if we consider that this life is the only one. As Saint Paul reminds us, the sufferings of this world are negligible considering the glories of the world to come.

Or, if you prefer Dickens, “there is another world that sets this one right.” (Bleak House)

I know that this is not the only world.

But if I can’t make it into the heavenly world, then what good is this world at all?

Imagine a person who cannot find work and is forced to become a criminal. I DO NOT WANT THAT!!!

But resistance is futile. God does not love me enough to give me a steady job.

Bob is this the glass half empty or half full scenario.

True story. You are Aussie right? Wye River bushfire on Christmas Day a couple of years ago. Much of one of the communities was in Christmas Day mass, while the fire was building and burning.

Were they all fortunate to be in one place ?

I’m not Aussie.

And other people suffering is the problem of evil, not the problem of good.

Explain why good things happen to people at God’s hand and he chooses not to do that for others.

Prejudice?

Why are some exempt from the cross? Did they bribe God? Of course not, that is a ridiculous notion. Why did they get good while I don’t?

God is not supposed to be respecter of persons, not prejudiced, so this appears to contradict that. God loves some people more than others. THAT is the problem of good.

 

[STT]

Because the other guy is far worse.

Who is other guy? Satan! That could be all fictions or stories to mislead us. You seems to have problems with what you believe. So why don’t you doubt?

 

[RomanoAmerio]

I know that this is not the only world.

But if I can’t make it into the heavenly world, then what good is this world at all?

Imagine a person who cannot find work and is forced to become a criminal. I DO NOT WANT THAT!!!

But resistance is futile. God does not love me enough to give me a steady job.

Dear Bob,

The grass is always greener on the other side in this fallen world of ours.

Peruse these forums a little while, and you will find more than one poor soul whose “steady job” turned out to be a nightmare.

Sometimes suffering does not “make sense”, but this is because we are creatures of the moment, living in the present and seeing reality as a succession of dreary snapshots. God knows better. Everything He does, even if it is incomprehensible to our puny intellects, is directed towards the salvation of souls - including your own.

I shall pray for you.

 

[BobCatholic]

Who is other guy? Satan! That could be all fictions or stories to mislead us. You seems to have problems with what you believe. So why don’t you doubt?

Because I have experienced the dark side. I’ve had a demon come to my bed at night and try to drag me away. Same with my wife.

I want nothing to do with them!

God does exist, and I have more than enough proof in my life for that. So does the devil.

Life is nothing but a cosmic chess game between those two and I’m just a pawn.

 

[BobCatholic]

God knows better. Everything He does, even if it is incomprehensible to our puny intellects, is directed towards the salvation of souls - including your own.

That’s because God ONLY cares about my soul. My body, no.

I shall pray for you.

Thanks!

 

[RomanoAmerio]

That’s because God ONLY cares about my soul. My body, no.

Thanks!

Your words recall the Blessed Virgin’s words to Saint Bernadette: “I cannot make you happy in this world, but only in the next.”

It is a matter of historical record that this dear and blessed Saint suffered terribly in the flesh before her death.

Perhaps you are called to be a Saint as well. Saint Bob sounds quite good to me.

 

[BobCatholic]

Your words recall the Blessed Virgin’s words to Saint Bernadette: “I cannot make you happy in this world, but only in the next.”

It is a matter of historical record that this dear and blessed Saint suffered terribly in the flesh before her death.

Perhaps you are called to be a Saint as well. Saint Bob sounds quite good to me.

I know I must be a saint to enter heaven. I just don’t know if my weak, imperfect, ridiculously ineffective and pretty much worthless self can make a sufficient enough cooperation with God’s grace to make it. I have zero confidence in my ability to do so. I also have zero confidence in God’s willingness to make it happen (not his ability, he can do it if he wants!). I also have zero confidence that I’ll make it without his grace.

 

[Roseeurekacross]

No idea why I thought you were Aussie.

You sound to be a little down, and having a real crisis of faith. And a little angry with your creator.
Do you have a Priest / professional you can share these feelings with?

Jesus did say it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle, then for a rich man to enter Heaven.

 

[Vico]

I know I must be a saint to enter heaven. I just don’t know if my weak, imperfect, ridiculously ineffective and pretty much worthless self can make a sufficient enough cooperation with God’s grace to make it. I have zero confidence in my ability to do so. I also have zero confidence in God’s willingness to make it happen (not his ability, he can do it if he wants!). I also have zero confidence that I’ll make it without his grace.

Having zero confidence that one can be saved without His grace is in perfect agreement with Catholic dogma. Salvation is not based upon ability but upon will, for the root of sin is in the heart of man, in his free will. Catechism:

1735 Imputability and responsibility for an action can be diminished or even nullified by ignorance, inadvertence, duress, fear, habit, inordinate attachments, and other psychological or social factors.

1853 Sins can be distinguished according to their objects, as can every human act; or according to the virtues they oppose, by excess or defect; or according to the commandments they violate. They can also be classed according to whether they concern God, neighbor, or oneself; they can be divided into spiritual and carnal sins, or again as sins in thought, word, deed, or omission. The root of sin is in the heart of man, in his free will, according to the teaching of the Lord: "For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, fornication, theft, false witness, slander. These are what defile a man."128 But in the heart also resides charity, the source of the good and pure works, which sin wounds.

 

[John_Martin]

God will deal kindly with you because of someone else. We remember what our forerunner in the faith David did for Mephibosheth son of Jonathan.
“Don’t be afraid,” David said to him, “for I will surely show you kindness for the sake of your father Jonathan. I will restore to you all the land that belonged to your grandfather Saul, and you will always eat at my table.”
Mephibosheth bowed down and said, “What is your servant, that you should notice a dead dog like me?”
David did not heal Mephibosheth’s feet, nor did God, but he did humanly what God does to us by including us in his Kingdom to eat at his table.
David loved Jonathan as his own soul, so he loved Jonathan’s son. Our Father loves Jesus as his own being, and loves all whom Jesus loves, and that is your participation in all goodness. We do not look at ourselves; we look at who has come before us that recommends us to the grace of God, baptizing us, teaching us, helping us.

 

[STT]

Because I have experienced the dark side. I’ve had a demon come to my bed at night and try to drag me away. Same with my wife.

That was it? They are kinda rough in starting but they become gentle afterward. You think that the demon couldn’t drag you away if He wanted? You are here for a reason and until that reason is not fulfilled you still will be here.

I want nothing to do with them!

What if that is all we got? What if God is with them too?

God does exist, and I have more than enough proof in my life for that. So does the devil.

That I agree.

Life is nothing but a cosmic chess game between those two and I’m just a pawn.

That doesn’t make sense. God is stronger, so He can win the game and take us home. Instead He left us here unattended to deal with demons. We have bee being here and will be here forever. Nothing is going to change until our death come. And we don’t know what we will be facing after our death too.

 

[BobCatholic]

You sound to be a little down, and having a real crisis of faith. And a little angry with your creator.
Do you have a Priest / professional you can share these feelings with?

No, I can’t find one. I’ve been looking for a good SD for ages.

Jesus did say it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle, then for a rich man to enter Heaven.

Correct.

Because God hates money.

Salvation is not based upon ability but upon will, for the root of sin is in the heart of man, in his free will.

Yes, but how do I know if I’m willing enough. How do I know I’m cooperating enough? How do I know which elevator I’m taking after I’m dead - up or down?

 

[BobCatholic]

God will deal kindly with you because of someone else.

But who is this someone else?

Jesus?

I’ve tried to get closer to him and kept failing. He’s playing hard to get.

 

[John_Martin]

But who is this someone else?

Jesus?

I’ve tried to get closer to him and kept failing. He’s playing hard to get.

Mephibosheth did not have to try to “get close” to David to get his favor.
David already loved Jonathan, now dead, Mephibosheth’s father.

Jesus loves St Peter and Pope Francis, St. John and your Bishop, your Pastor feeding you the sacrament and hearing your confession. Jesus sends his Spirit wherever these people go, pouring it out on the people they touch.
Ask Jesus, ask your Father to show kindness to Francis, show kindness to your Bishop and Pastor, show kindness to Sts. Peter and John, by helping you just the same way as he helped these your forerunners in the faith to be his faithful servant, also, fitting into the line of Peter, John, Pope Francis, your Bishop, your Pastor, and the Catholics of the Church.

 

[BobCatholic]

Mephibosheth did not have to try to “get close” to David to get his favor.
David already loved Jonathan, now dead, Mephibosheth’s father.

But I must get close to Jesus or else I’ll later die and hear those horrificly painful words “I do not know you, go away you evildoer”

Painful not because I’m going to hell, but painful because I’m rejected by Christ.

Jesus loves St Peter and Pope Francis, St. John and your Bishop, your Pastor feeding you the sacrament and hearing your confession. Jesus sends his Spirit wherever these people go, pouring it out on the people they touch.
Ask Jesus, ask your Father to show kindness to Francis, show kindness to your Bishop and Pastor, show kindness to Sts. Peter and John, by helping you just the same way as he helped these your forerunners in the faith to be his faithful servant, also, fitting into the line of Peter, John, Pope Francis, your Bishop, your Pastor, and the Catholics of the Church.

Sure, I’ll pray for others, which I do every day. Those prayers, since they don’t benefit me, will get a yes from God.

But if I dare pray for something to benefit me, the answer is too often no. Steady job? No. Healing my son’s mental disease? No. I want to get closer to God? No.

Anything outside of God’s will is evil, and that is why God said no to my requests, they’re all evil.

 

[rinnie]

The problem of evil has been discussed in great depth, but I don’t see much discussion about the problem of good.

The problem of good goes something like this.

OK, we are required to suffer in life. There is no way around this. Then why does God bless certain people with good things (wealth, health, steady employment, healing, etc.) while others are denied these goods? Why do some people get relief from their sufferings while others don’t?

Many people go to healing services. God heals some, the rest are told no.
Many people pray for good things. Some get yes, some get no as the answer to the prayers.

Scripture says God does not care about race, color, sex, servitude, employment status, rank, status in society, etc. But apparently he does care about something.

The health and wealth Gospel, I reject, as does the Catholic Church. So these people blessed with good things are not necessarily saintly people who levitate while praying their rosaries in Aramaic fourteen times a day. Meanwhile saintly people suffer.

Christ says the cross is mandatory but apparently some people are exempt from this requirement.

This is the problem of good - why does God exempt some people from the cross? How is this not capricious and arbitrary?

I have never met anyone who have been exempt from the cross. Having money does not take away physical or mental pain.

Having money does not cure illness.

Just because people have nice things in life makes their cross no easier to carry. Pain is pain.

No one can answer why God does what he does. Why is one man rich and unhappy, and one man poor and happy. Vice-versa.

Happiness will never be found in material things. We all get our turn good luck bad luck who knows. If you love and trust God you will learn that if your will is not his will, you are basically screwed. But then as time goes on and you still trust him, you find out if God gave into your will, and not his, you screwed yourself.

You have to learn to pray for grace, Grace to accept the will of God. If you can pray for that, and you get that gift, you will not have any anxiety. If you truly believe in God and trust him you will get by.

You may not get that job, but will have a roof over your head and food in the belly. You will learn that in the end it is always the will of God that was best for you. God will give you what you need, not what you want. Because what we want can destroy us…

Sometimes his will is the same as ours and we will get what we want. If not praise God and thank him, for knowing what is best for us, because humans cannot think like the Divine.

Moral of the story when you think you are screwed because you will is not as Gods will and you are told no, you are not screwed you are blessed, because when you go to God and trust him, he always takes care of you. He knows better what you need then you do.