The problem of good

[BobCatholic]

I have never met anyone who have been exempt from the cross.

There are plenty of them. God loves some people more than others.

Having money does not take away physical or mental pain.

No, but not having money means physical and mental pain.

Having money does not cure illness

.

No, but not having money means one gets ill more.

Just because people have nice things in life makes their cross no easier to carry. Pain is pain.

Nice things? Yeah, you’re right. Money? Nope, one needs money to fix pain.

Happiness will never be found in material things.

Correct. We are not meant to be happy on this planet, this life is only for the cross, nothing else.

We all get our turn good luck bad luck who knows.

I don’t get my turn at good luck, I keep getting bad luck.

If you love and trust God you will learn that if your will is not his will, you are basically screwed.

The problem is God won’t tell me what his will is, so I don’t know, and I’m screwed.

If you can pray for that, and you get that gift, you will not have any anxiety.

And if God says no, like he usually does, then there is anxiety.

If you truly believe in God and trust him you will get by.

I believe in God strongly. I just don’t trust him in the temporal realm because God only cares about the spiritual and not the temporal.

You will learn that in the end it is always the will of God that was best for you.

…

God’s will is never ever to get a steady job. God’s will is that my son can never be healed of his mental disease. My needs are evil.

he always takes care of you.

God does not care about the temporal, only the spiritual. Thus, this is false.

 

[rinnie]

I know I must be a saint to enter heaven. I just don’t know if my weak, imperfect, ridiculously ineffective and pretty much worthless self can make a sufficient enough cooperation with God’s grace to make it. I have zero confidence in my ability to do so. I also have zero confidence in God’s willingness to make it happen (not his ability, he can do it if he wants!). I also have zero confidence that I’ll make it without his grace.

Join the club. I don’t think any of our believe we are worthy of God or good enough, or could possibly make it without his Grace.

 

[rinnie]

There are plenty of them. God loves some people more than others.

No, but not having money means physical and mental pain.

.

No, but not having money means one gets ill more.

Nice things? Yeah, you’re right. Money? Nope, one needs money to fix pain.

Correct. We are not meant to be happy on this planet, this life is only for the cross, nothing else.

I don’t get my turn at good luck, I keep getting bad luck.

The problem is God won’t tell me what his will is, so I don’t know, and I’m screwed.

And if God says no, like he usually does, then there is anxiety.

I believe in God strongly. I just don’t trust him in the temporal realm because God only cares about the spiritual and not the temporal.

…

God’s will is never ever to get a steady job. God’s will is that my son can never be healed of his mental disease. My needs are evil.

God does not care about the temporal, only the spiritual. Thus, this is false.

My Dad worked like a dog his whole life. He died of black lung, he had money but money could not help him breath. My neighbor never worked, never had money, he never suffered pain like my Dad.

My Dad suffered from arthritis his whole life, but he got up and he went to work, and thanked God for everything he had.

He told me this is not our world if it was it would be easy. My brother died of a brain tumor, so my Dad knows what it is like to see a child suffer. He said that we had to trust God to do what was best. God took my brother, My Dad praised God for curing my brother, he said God took away his cancer in heaven. (by the way money never eased my brothers pain, nor my Dad physical suffering) Only the grace of God did.

We all have crosses to carry in this world, and many times we don’t know how we did, and figure out in the end God carried them for us. Because we are not that strong.

The Blessed Mother loved her Son, she did everything God asked of her, and watched her Son spit on, made fun of, and hung on a cross. She was sinless, never did anything wrong, neither did her Son. But she never once blamed or doubted God, she trusted him.

My Dad taught me to go to her when you are in a bad way, and she will go with you to her Son and pray for you. This is what I do. I ask her to pray for me when I feel anxiety or unworthy, and she helps me. Go to her, she will pray for you, when you have trouble.

 

[BobCatholic]

Join the club. I don’t think any of our believe we are worthy of God or good enough, or could possibly make it without his Grace.

So how do I know I’m cooperating with God’s grace good enough? I never know. And I’m not getting any sort of knowledge.

My Dad worked like a dog his whole life. He died of black lung, he had money but money could not help him breath. My neighbor never worked, never had money, he never suffered pain like my Dad.

Which is an example of my question: Why are some people exempt from the cross?

He told me this is not our world if it was it would be easy.

No, if we were in the Garden of Eden, life would be easy.

If we were not held temporally responsible for the sins of our ancestors, life would be easy.

But she never once blamed or doubted God, she trusted him.

She had a personal relationship with God. I don’t. I only have a corporate relationship.

. Go to her, she will pray for you, when you have trouble.

I did. God still said no to basic things like a steady job or healing my son of his mental disease. Clearly I can’t get help from heaven for either of these evil things.

And I’m not going to ask the other guy, the one downstairs, he’s horrible. I hate him.

 

[rinnie]

So how do I know I’m cooperating with God’s grace good enough? I never know. And I’m not getting any sort of knowledge.

Which is an example of my question: Why are some people exempt from the cross?

No, if we were in the Garden of Eden, life would be easy.

If we were not held temporally responsible for the sins of our ancestors, life would be easy.

She had a personal relationship with God. I don’t. I only have a corporate relationship.

I did. God still said no to basic things like a steady job or healing my son of his mental disease. Clearly I can’t get help from heaven for either of these evil things.

And I’m not going to ask the other guy, the one downstairs, he’s horrible. I hate him.

Adam and Eve had a personal relationship with God and they sinned, so what makes you think living in paradise will content you? If you are contented with God and have faith in him, you know that he is making you carry your crosses for whatever reason he has, and you trust him enough to carry them. As I stated, my Dad thanked God he gave him the grace to carry his cross. He never cried for the crosses he was given, he prayed for the Grace of God to be able to carry them, and then praised God for being able to carry them.

We are not held responsible for sins of Adam and Eve. Yes we are not in paradise, but we are not separated from God either in this world, and with his Grace and help we can make it. Death is indeed a consequence of Original Sin, and suffering, but we have a promise from God that he will help us through it. There is no suffering in this world that God will give us that we cannot handle. All we have to do is ask for his help and he will help us.

The problem here is people do not understand that God is indeed helping them, they are just upset because they want to tell God what they want to do, and how they want to carry their cross, But God does not work like that, he does it his way, because in the end there is a greater purpose, that human minds cannot understand.

My best advice for you Bob is what my Dad told me. Don’t pray for what you want, because chances are you are not going to get it, Pray for grace to carry your crosses, and you are going to get them, but with the Grace of God you will do it.

Because here is the bottom line, WE ALL have Crosses, Its the people who carry those crosses and trust God and pray for grace, and refuse to blame God and be bitter that LOOK like they have no crosses. And the ones who blame God and pray for the wrong things which is usually to take the cross away (that is not going to happen) they struggle through this life with those crosses.

You see people who have no crosses, only because they keep it inside between God and them and like my Dad look at the Cross as a gift instead of a curse. And thank God for letting them Carry that cross for God. They see it as a honor, and as my Dad said your own way of carrying that cross with Jesus on that walk he took to his death at lent for our sins.

Maybe you are right and crosses are a curse and not a gift and my Dad was crazy. But he said to accept the cross, carry it well, and it will not last forever, and if you accept it and carry it well, you will meet God face to face and hear WELL DONE. He said do NOT look for your reward in this world, its not comming, this is not the world of God it is the next, and it last forever.

But the worse your cross in this world which is short, the better your reward in heaven which is forever.

 

[BobCatholic]

Adam and Eve had a personal relationship with God and they sinned, so what makes you think living in paradise will content you?

Living in paradise. One rule. Easy to make God happy. That’s why.

If you are contented with God

How can I be contented with God if he won’t talk to me, refuses to help me with my problems?

I don’t have a personal relationship with God, every attempt I have made to get closer to God has failed. God plays hard to get.

As a result, I am only permitted a corporate relationship with God. I’m in the corpus - the body of Christ, nothing more.

you know that he is making you carry your crosses for whatever reason he has, and you trust him enough to carry them.

How do I trust someone who refuses to talk to me, and rejects me for being imperfect?

We are not held responsible for sins of Adam and Eve.

Not spiritually. Christ took care of that on the cross.

But temporally yes. If you don’t believe that, please tell me what airlines have flights to the Garden of Eden.

There is no suffering in this world that God will give us that we cannot handle.

That promise was broken for me…

All we have to do is ask for his help and he will help us.

You forgot the fine print, the “catch” the “gotcha” - it has to be in his will. Not in his will, it gets an automatic no because it is evil.

Don’t pray for what you want, because chances are you are not going to get it,

right, because God only cares about the spiritual, not the temporal.

You see people who have no crosses,

I think you missed something.

What I mean is that God does wonderful, loving, caring things for some people, but not for me.

This is an example which is how I see God operating.
I go to a healing service with a well known Catholic faith healer, who is known for healing. His ministry is approved by the Catholic Church and he has many people who testify to his healing power. Clearly this man is from God and helps.

OK, so I go bring my son with the mental disease. During the service, lots of people get healed. God works wonders and miracles, praise his Holy name! My son is not healed in the service.

Desperate, I muster up every molecule of faith I had, pick up my son and carry him to the faith healer. Knowing that Jesus heals through him, I say “Jesus, please heal my son of his mental disease.” The healer lays his hands on him and prays over him.

Mind you, this was after the healing service This was an above and beyond thing.

Despite this, God still said no.

My son was not healed. God passed me by.

And again. And again. And again.

Same thing with every attempt to get closer to God. God pushes me away. He does not want me.

God exempts some people from the cross. While demanding me to carry it.

This is the problem of good I’m discussing in this thread.

Why does God play favorites? Doing good for some, but refusing to do good for me?

What was that scripture? God is not a respecter of people? Clearly some people get his respect, while I can’t even get even bare acceptance from him.

This is the problem of good I see. God playing favorites, being arbitrary and capricious.

 

[Roseeurekacross]

Have you read any of St Faustina?

 

[rinnie]

Living in paradise. One rule. Easy to make God happy. That’s why.

How can I be contented with God if he won’t talk to me, refuses to help me with my problems?

I don’t have a personal relationship with God, every attempt I have made to get closer to God has failed. God plays hard to get.

As a result, I am only permitted a corporate relationship with God. I’m in the corpus - the body of Christ, nothing more.

How do I trust someone who refuses to talk to me, and rejects me for being imperfect?

Not spiritually. Christ took care of that on the cross.

But temporally yes. If you don’t believe that, please tell me what airlines have flights to the Garden of Eden.

That promise was broken for me…

You forgot the fine print, the “catch” the “gotcha” - it has to be in his will. Not in his will, it gets an automatic no because it is evil.

right, because God only cares about the spiritual, not the temporal.

I think you missed something.

What I mean is that God does wonderful, loving, caring things for some people, but not for me.

This is an example which is how I see God operating.
I go to a healing service with a well known Catholic faith healer, who is known for healing. His ministry is approved by the Catholic Church and he has many people who testify to his healing power. Clearly this man is from God and helps.

OK, so I go bring my son with the mental disease. During the service, lots of people get healed. God works wonders and miracles, praise his Holy name! My son is not healed in the service.

Desperate, I muster up every molecule of faith I had, pick up my son and carry him to the faith healer. Knowing that Jesus heals through him, I say “Jesus, please heal my son of his mental disease.” The healer lays his hands on him and prays over him.

Mind you, this was after the healing service This was an above and beyond thing.

Despite this, God still said no.

My son was not healed. God passed me by.

And again. And again. And again.

Same thing with every attempt to get closer to God. God pushes me away. He does not want me.

God exempts some people from the cross. While demanding me to carry it.

This is the problem of good I’m discussing in this thread.

Why does God play favorites? Doing good for some, but refusing to do good for me?

What was that scripture? God is not a respecter of people? Clearly some people get his respect, while I can’t even get even bare acceptance from him.

This is the problem of good I see. God playing favorites, being arbitrary and capricious.

Do you remember the scripture when the devil said to God you have the power to call down the angels to assist you, why don’t you call them now,. (my words). And Jesus said do not put your Lord to the test? Long story short.

My Dad wanted to take my brother to where the miracles happened, I forget where it was, but anyway here is the point. The priest said you can take him anywhere, or stay here and pray for him. God is here and can cure him here just like there.

So back to my point, if it is the will of God to cure your Son it will happen in the time of God. Don’t you see God answered our prayers he cured my brother of his brain tumor. but chose to do it in the next world not here. We HAD to accept this.

Did we suffer? Many Many years, but now over ten years later our faith and trust in God is thousands times stronger by not getting our wishes. Although we always have faith, it was his saying no that kept us going to him for the last ten years, like yourself asking why? Why everyone else, why not us. My Dad was the most faithful Man I know and knew, yet he was the only one that never questioned God.

It took me ten years to see, God has his reasons, and sometimes we will not know until we meet him, but he is never wrong. We have no right to even question him.

It was that ten years in suffering and asking why, and crying, sadness, and a million others things that happened in that time (I actually thought God was picking on me) that I learned true faith.

Like the book of Job, if God gave us everything we wished for, why would we need God? Do not worry about your Son, He is with God more then you nor I could ever be, God is taking care of him. And you also, you just do not see it.

 

[BobCatholic]

Do you remember the scripture when the devil said to God you have the power to call down the angels to assist you, why don’t you call them now,. (my words). And Jesus said do not put your Lord to the test? Long story short.

I am not putting God to the test, I am expecting him to follow what he says.

If he is not a respecter of persons, then all are treated equal. If one is subject to the cross, all must be subject to the cross. No exceptions.

But God exempts people from crosses all the time.

So back to my point, if it is the will of God to cure your Son it will happen in the time of God.

The time is infinite. God can afford to wait an infinite amount of time, My son can’t.

Like the book of Job, if God gave us everything we wished for, why would we need God?

That’s like saying if someone is fed why would one ask to be fed? A ridiculous notion.

If I knew God provided everything I needed and there was never a time he failed, then my need of God is perfect.

But if God can just willy nilly choose not to help, maybe he’s tired of me and doesn’t want to help, then how can I need that?

If I had a relative I could not depend on, I’m not going to depend on them.

Do not worry about your Son, He is with God more then you nor I could ever be, God is taking care of him. And you also, you just do not see it.

I have to worry. I have to take care of him for the rest of my life, and my ability to provide is never stable. God doesn’t care about that.

 

[HelenRose]

The problem of evil has been discussed in great depth, but I don’t see much discussion about the problem of good.

The problem of good goes something like this.

OK, we are required to suffer in life. There is no way around this. Then why does God bless certain people with good things (wealth, health, steady employment, healing, etc.) while others are denied these goods? Why do some people get relief from their sufferings while others don’t?

Many people go to healing services. God heals some, the rest are told no.
Many people pray for good things. Some get yes, some get no as the answer to the prayers.

Scripture says God does not care about race, color, sex, servitude, employment status, rank, status in society, etc. But apparently he does care about something.

The health and wealth Gospel, I reject, as does the Catholic Church. So these people blessed with good things are not necessarily saintly people who levitate while praying their rosaries in Aramaic fourteen times a day. Meanwhile saintly people suffer.

Christ says the cross is mandatory but apparently some people are exempt from this requirement.

This is the problem of good - why does God exempt some people from the cross? How is this not capricious and arbitrary?

You are looking at exteriors. The journey of the soul is far more complex than outward appearances. Everyone faces sorrow. If a person lives to be 99 surround by luxuries, that person has lost everyone he or she loved and knew as a child and a young adult. No escapes suffering. That is a fool’s dream. Believing that other’s escape sorrow is the beginning of envy.

 

[BobCatholic]

You are looking at exteriors.

No. I’m carrying a cross that someone else does not have to. They’re exempt from that cross.

God says yes to a prayer he says no to mine, but we ask the same thing.

Why is God a respecter of persons? Scripture says he isn’t, but my experience is showing otherwise.

The journey of the soul is far more complex than outward appearances.

Yes, but the journey of the body is clear and open.

Besides, God only cares about the spiritual and not the temporal.

So, explain the problem of good - where God treats people differently, as if we are not equal in his eyes.

 

[HelenRose]

No. I’m carrying a cross that someone else does not have to. They’re exempt from that cross.

God says yes to a prayer he says no to mine, but we ask the same thing.

Why is God a respecter of persons? Scripture says he isn’t, but my experience is showing otherwise.

Yes, but the journey of the body is clear and open.

Besides, God only cares about the spiritual and not the temporal.

So, explain the problem of good - where God treats people differently, as if we are not equal in his eyes.

Each one of us is on our own journey to God. The path is not the same from one person to the next. Our trials are unique for each one of us. Your trial is unique to you. The death of my beautiful seven year old granddaughter is unique to me and especially terrible for my daughter.

We are not like silk flowers that wilt and die. And just like the beautiful live flowers that are so beautiful in their own special way, we live, we grow, we suffer and we die. That is life. Even if being alive brings with it the inevitable suffering, I personally am glad to be alive and that I am not a silk flower. I love life with all of its beauty and all of its sorrow.

You can not know the burdens other people carry. I don’t know why I was born in Western Colorado and get to see the dark starry night skies and the deep blue sky in the day. I don’t why my brother and sister had to die of cancer. I don’t have the answer to God’s love. I can only love those around me and be grateful for what I do have.

 

[BobCatholic]

Each one of us is on our own journey to God. The path is not the same from one person to the next.

So that’s the excuse for God exempting people from the cross.

Precisely what the problem of good is.

Why does God make some people so good that they don’t need to suffer to get close to God while people like me are so imperfect that I’m useless.

If only God were not a respecter of persons.

You can not know the burdens other people carry.

I know what burdens I carry. I know that others don’t have them.

God treats people unequally.

 

[Lion_IRC]

…Because God hates money.

The LOVE of money.

 

[Lion_IRC]

It would be great to be God and fix all the so-called problems.
I’d grant everyone’s prayer request no matter how silly it was.
I’d make everyone immune from pain - both physical and emotional pain.
I’d stop everyone from dying and let them have as many babies as they want and I’d just keep making the world larger and larger so it never filled up with people.
I’d ban sadness. I’d ban the memory of sadness. I’d ban discussion of sadness.
I’d make hell a happy place.
I’d turn satan into Willy Wonka and put him in charge of a chocolate factory.
I’d let atheists believe whatever they like…

 

[rinnie]

I am not putting God to the test, I am expecting him to follow what he says.

If he is not a respecter of persons, then all are treated equal. If one is subject to the cross, all must be subject to the cross. No exceptions.

But God exempts people from crosses all the time.

The time is infinite. God can afford to wait an infinite amount of time, My son can’t.

That’s like saying if someone is fed why would one ask to be fed? A ridiculous notion.

If I knew God provided everything I needed and there was never a time he failed, then my need of God is perfect.

But if God can just willy nilly choose not to help, maybe he’s tired of me and doesn’t want to help, then how can I need that?

If I had a relative I could not depend on, I’m not going to depend on them.

I have to worry. I have to take care of him for the rest of my life, and my ability to provide is never stable. God doesn’t care about that.

I hate to say this but I must. Do you realize the NEED of that boy? And where that boy would be if you did not have the GRACE from God to LOVE that boy as you do and take care of him. So who is more important here you or the child.

Well it seems that you have done a very good job providing thus far, and rather your ability to provide is stable or not God seemed to get you through. So what makes you think he will not see it through.

So I think I would choose to praise God for giving that boy to you because God knew what a huge heart you have and the love you have, because believe me, there are people in this world RICH and POOR who would not do it and leave him.

 

[rinnie]

So that’s the excuse for God exempting people from the cross.

Precisely what the problem of good is.

Why does God make some people so good that they don’t need to suffer to get close to God while people like me are so imperfect that I’m useless.

If only God were not a respecter of persons.

I know what burdens I carry. I know that others don’t have them.

God treats people unequally.

Well Bob my Mother would carry your burden for the rest of her life to just be able to see my Brother and take care of him. And would have taken care of my Dad also. She does not carry your burden but does not feel very lucky either.

And I would LOVE to meet one person who never had their shot at carrying the cross. Because it sure did not bypass Christ himself or his Mother.

 

[HelenRose]

So that’s the excuse for God exempting people from the cross.

Precisely what the problem of good is.

Why does God make some people so good that they don’t need to suffer to get close to God while people like me are so imperfect that I’m useless.

If only God were not a respecter of persons.

I know what burdens I carry. I know that others don’t have them.

God treats people unequally.

I would not presume to excuse God. I have tried to explain how I have come to understand suffering. It obviously is not a sufficient explanation for you. You may not have an answer for your questions until you meet your maker face to face. All I know is that I could never carry my cross without His love.

 

[rinnie]

I would not presume to excuse God. I have tried to explain how I have come to understand suffering. It obviously is not a sufficient explanation for you. You may not have an answer for your questions until you meet your maker face to face. All I know is that I could never carry my cross without His love.

It is like my Mother and I were talking yesterday, we all get our turn. A customer of mine was here yesterday and so kind to listen to me for years of my suffering with my problems, and I remember thinking as Bob she could go home to her perfect family while my suffering just goes on. At the time things could not go better for her and worse for me. But she is such a good person I could not be bitter or Jealous.

Well times cures all as we know, well my Son and her Grandaughter both had babies around the same time. Our baby was a little early needed a monitor and is now doing fine, Her baby was to go in for her 6th heart surgery. The baby is 8 months, she cannot cry, or eat, and was sent home. The surgery they said would do not good. She has 6 months to a year, they are praying for a miracle, and I am praying for them.

She is Such a good person, so better then I, and this was the first time I thought why NOT me God, why NOT me, it was usually why me. But I see now that everybody gets a turn at joy, love,pain stress, we all get our turn.

 

[BobCatholic]

I hate to say this but I must. Do you realize the NEED of that boy?

Yes. He needs to be healed. God doesn’t care about that need. I do.

And where that boy would be if you did not have the GRACE from God to LOVE that boy as you do and take care of him. So who is more important here you or the child.

And I’m doomed to take care of him for the rest of my life, regardless of my ability to earn a living.

So what makes you think he will not see it through.

I’m getting older. Age discrimination is rampant in my field and older workers have a tough time keeping jobs.

I’m in a field that is dying. I went back to school and tried to get 2 other fields’ certifications and degrees. Nobody will hire me in those fields because I have no “experience” in those fields, they see my old field and stop thinking at that point.

We have automation in my main field, and if I don’t get experience in the tools, game over, my ability to earn a living gets reduced and reduced. Sure, I could teach myself the tools, but guess what? The catch-22 hits me again. No job, no experience; no experience, no job. So who cares I CAN do the job, I don’t have “experience”

As time goes on, I am less able to earn a living due to the unstable job market in my field.

So, how will he make it through if I’m out of work?

So I think I would choose to praise God for giving that boy to you because God knew what a huge heart you have and the love you have, because believe me, there are people in this world RICH and POOR who would not do it and leave him.

My son’s mental disease is God’s punishment to me for marrying late in life, not something to praise him for.

The LOVE of money.

Not just the love of money, but God also hates money itself. That’s why Christ told the rich young ruler to give it up before he was allowed to follow Christ.