The Problem with Abstinence....How to Make Better Decisions?

[In_Training]

There’s a number of discussions on NFP here already but I couldn’t exactly find every answer I was looking for. I was wondering if anyone else had problems with NFP and had to stop using it, and how things turned out?

My ex-gf and I got back together six months ago and have been trying to work things out. We’re being celibate this time, which she has experienced in previous relationships but celibacy is a first for me. I’m actually trying to be a relatively well-behaved Christian this time. We’ll both turn 23 in the next few months. We’re talking about getting married and will go to pre-marital counseling but I kind of want to get more opinions on this than just one counselor’s. The problem is that I don’t entirely agree with NFP - it prohibits frequency, which is awful in itself, and I don’t know how to respond to having to know about all her…stuff…that she has to watch for (makes me a little queasy…). And I’d be scared every month that we did something wrong, or the timing was off by one day, and I don’t want to start a marriage off by praying every month that she gets her period. I am open to life and would figure out a way to handle anything God gives us, but I have this fear of having more responsibility than I can handle. So the only answer is celibacy? So a married couple might never even have sex until 10 years into the marriage…is that what I’m facing? She’s worth it, I just don’t trust my ability to not give up.

I’m trying to be open-minded about letting other people lead me, and the priest at my church doesn’t believe in any other way besides NFP. I sort of talked to him about this, in a non-specific way, but he figured out what I was asking and told me that no matter what I did in life, I would be fine and God would never leave me. Which is nice to hear, but I think my priest thinks I’m trustworthy, and I’m so completely not. He has a lot of faith in me, which is amazing, but people seem to think I don’t struggle with things and that I can just show up and do the right thing all the time without hesitation. (I can’t.)

I slept in her bed a few nights ago to see how it would be to live together, but I didn’t get any sleep and had to leave after almost going too far. As a married couple, how do you live with someone that you’re completely in love with and sleep next to them every night and not let the frustration of near-constant celibacy drive you crazy? And people say “well take a cold shower or get a hobby to distract yourself” – but if that ever actually worked, the human population would be a lot smaller. I think it’s going in the direction that we’ll try NFP for a while but if there’s too much fear or frustration we’ll eventually switch to BC. I just got to a place where I’m finally starting to listen and think clear, and I don’t want to mess that up by doing something I know is wrong, even though no one’s perfect. I know people will say it’s lust and if I really love her I won’t let that happen, but I don’t have a solution. Maybe after a trial run with BC, when we’re both ready we’ll be able to switch back to NFP, and it will work this time?

I know this sounds immature and selfish, and I don’t mean it to, but I’m actually trying to accomplish something here, and do God’s work and sacrifice to make that happen, but at the same time I’m not a superhero and can’t do everything right all the time, even though I try to. Basically I’m kind of hoping that no matter what I do, God will stay with me and eventually give me the strength to serve him better and be a better leader. But then there’s people who say, umm no, you broke the rules so you go to hell. This isn’t even specific to NFP. Basically, it boils down to the fact that I don’t know how to make an ethical decision. And I’m on thin ice with God as it is. :juggle:

 

[MidnightSun12]

My ex-gf and I got back together six months ago and have been trying to work things out. We’re being celibate this time, which she has experienced in previous relationships but celibacy is a first for me. I’m actually trying to be a relatively well-behaved Christian this time. We’ll both turn 23 in the next few months. We’re talking about getting married and will go to pre-marital counseling but I kind of want to get more opinions on this than just one counselor’s. The problem is that I don’t entirely agree with NFP - it prohibits frequency, which is awful in itself, and I don’t know how to respond to having to know about all her…stuff…that she has to watch for (makes me a little queasy…). And I’d be scared every month that we did something wrong, or the timing was off by one day, and I don’t want to start a marriage off by praying every month that she gets her period. I am open to life and would figure out a way to handle anything God gives us, but I have this fear of having more responsibility than I can handle. So the only answer is celibacy? So a married couple might never even have sex until 10 years into the marriage…is that what I’m facing? She’s worth it, I just don’t trust my ability to not give up.

NFP must be accompanied by a serious or grave reason for wanting to put off a child (financial, medical, etc…). When such a reason is present, I believe NFP does have a high success rate because these couples know deep down that they truly are not in a position to handle a pregnancy and are very conservative with using the method. For those individuals who lack a serious reason, however, I believe the success rate goes down since their will-power is ultimately tied to selfish reasons which inevitably get put at odds with their own desire for sexual gratification.

 

[akela135]

Hi In Training. It’s good that you are trying to understand all of these issues before marriage and I found this site a real blessing to give me strength to follow church teaching.

The problem is that I don’t entirely agree with NFP - it prohibits frequency, which is awful in itself, and I don’t know how to respond to having to know about all her…stuff…that she has to watch for (makes me a little queasy…). And I’d be scared every month that we did something wrong, or the timing was off by one day, and I don’t want to start a marriage off by praying every month that she gets her period. I am open to life and would figure out a way to handle anything God gives us, but I have this fear of having more responsibility than I can handle. So the only answer is celibacy? So a married couple might never even have sex until 10 years into the marriage…is that what I’m facing?

I have a lot to say about this so I’ll go one at a time. First it is contradictory. You start by saying you don’t want to limit frequency but then suggests you’ll abstain 100% for ten years! I’m sure I won’t be alone in telling you this, but even once a month is better than never!

Next you need to understand why you want to delay children and for how long you think this would be necessary. If you think you need to delay 10 years then it is probably wise to postpone the wedding as you aren’t really ready for marriage yet.

You mention you are queasy learning about her biology. Perhaps learning about her biology would make you less queasy over it? Also in marriage there is a good potential for many ‘queasy’ experiences. In example I was listening to the radio today and the host mentioned how he had been sick and made a mess all over the bed he shared with his wife, and how she was so kind to clean all the mess up for him so he could keep resting. That to me sounds icky, but I would do the same if my DH were sick in such a manner.

Moving on, if you needed to use NFP then you would probably take some time to learn it before marriage so you could be confident with the method. Perhaps you’d be more cautious at first limiting yourself to less days of relations but as you grew in confidence trust more days each cycle. Just make sure you aren’t irrationally afraid of the possibility and are doing so for just reasons.

As a married couple, how do you live with someone that you’re completely in love with and sleep next to them every night and not let the frustration of near-constant celibacy drive you crazy? And people say “well take a cold shower or get a hobby to distract yourself” – but if that ever actually worked, the human population would be a lot smaller. I think it’s going in the direction that we’ll try NFP for a while but if there’s too much fear or frustration we’ll eventually switch to BC

NFP by its very nature will start out frustrating and somewhat fearful. We have been conditioned as a society to believe that the only way to avoid pregnancy is ABC. To throw that to the wind when you need to avoid and trust NFP is scary. Ultimately it is more rewarding because you have placed your trust in God and his design for your life. ABC still fails and couples fall pregnant every year using it. With NFP at least you know what times you are likely to fall pregnant, ABC is a big gamble because you can’t know when it has failed. If you look across the fence jealous of all the “fun times” the ABC users can have it will be harder to embrace NFP. You would need to focus on your own life and all the “fun times” you can have. Also statistics show that NFP users have relations just as much if not more than ABC users.

Abstaining can be hard, no lie, but most married couples do not have relations every day. Many have them a few times a week. If you have to go an extended period without relations you really will have to find someway to distract yourselves. There can be more reasons to abstain than just avoiding pregnancy as well, such as injuries or sickness and even couples using ABC will experience those. Abstaining will always be a part of marriage regardless of your method of family planning. Every couple will have to work out what works best when they must abstain because every couple is different.

I will be praying for you!

 

[stephe1987]

I suggest you and your girlfriend sign up for an NFP class.

 

[Elizium23]

NFP must be accompanied by a serious or grave reason for wanting to put off a child (financial, medical, etc…). When such a reason is present, I believe NFP does have a high success rate because these couples know deep down that they truly are not in a position to handle a pregnancy and are very conservative with using the method. For those individuals who lack a serious reason, however, I believe the success rate goes down since their will-power is ultimately tied to selfish reasons which inevitably get put at odds with their own desire for sexual gratification.

It does not have to be a “grave reason”. “Grave” has a very specific meaning in Canon Law: it is the highest standard applied to reasons one may do something. On the contrary, the Catechism says that the couple only needs a “just reason”:
Catechism of the Catholic Church:

2368 For just reasons, spouses may wish to space the births of their children. It is their duty to make certain that their desire is not motivated by selfishness but is in conformity with the generosity appropriate to responsible parenthood. Moreover, they should conform their behavior to the objective criteria of morality.

A “just” reason is the lowest standard applied in Canon Law. Some other documents put this at a “serious reason”:
Humanae Vitae:

If, then, there are serious motives to space out births, which derive from the physical or psychological conditions of husband and wife, or from external conditions, the Church teaches that it is then licit to take into account the natural rhythms immanent in the generative functions… [Pope Paul VI, Humanae Vitae 16]

See this EWTN article for more information on the reasons for spacing births.

EWTN:

Serious motives, just reasons, proportionately serious reasons. The Church teaches the necessity of just or serious motives or reasons for couples to use the infertile periods of a woman’s cycle for the purpose of spacing births. In doing so she is trying to insure that the natural methods of spacing children are used in a virtuous and loving way, i.e., unselfishly. Serious reasons mean important, or non-trivial, reasons, deriving “from the physical or psychological conditions of husband and wife, or from external conditions” (HV 16). Just reasons are, likewise, reasons which correspond to the truth of marriage and the situation of the couple. It is the nature of justice to correspond to the truth. Both terms, serious and just, presumes there can be selfish, trivial or unjust reasons for using NFP, reasons not in keeping with the nature of marriage as a community of life and love.

 

[Regina_Love]

There’s a number of discussions on NFP here already but I couldn’t exactly find every answer I was looking for. I was wondering if anyone else had problems with NFP and had to stop using it, and how things turned out?

My ex-gf and I got back together six months ago and have been trying to work things out. We’re being celibate this time, which she has experienced in previous relationships but celibacy is a first for me. I’m actually trying to be a relatively well-behaved Christian this time. We’ll both turn 23 in the next few months. We’re talking about getting married and will go to pre-marital counseling but I kind of want to get more opinions on this than just one counselor’s. The problem is that I don’t entirely agree with NFP - it prohibits frequency, which is awful in itself, and I don’t know how to respond to having to know about all her…stuff…that she has to watch for (makes me a little queasy…). And I’d be scared every month that we did something wrong, or the timing was off by one day, and I don’t want to start a marriage off by praying every month that she gets her period. I am open to life and would figure out a way to handle anything God gives us, but I have this fear of having more responsibility than I can handle. So the only answer is celibacy? So a married couple might never even have sex until 10 years into the marriage…is that what I’m facing? She’s worth it, I just don’t trust my ability to not give up.

I’m trying to be open-minded about letting other people lead me, and the priest at my church doesn’t believe in any other way besides NFP. I sort of talked to him about this, in a non-specific way, but he figured out what I was asking and told me that no matter what I did in life, I would be fine and God would never leave me. Which is nice to hear, but I think my priest thinks I’m trustworthy, and I’m so completely not. He has a lot of faith in me, which is amazing, but people seem to think I don’t struggle with things and that I can just show up and do the right thing all the time without hesitation. (I can’t.)

I slept in her bed a few nights ago to see how it would be to live together, but I didn’t get any sleep and had to leave after almost going too far. As a married couple, how do you live with someone that you’re completely in love with and sleep next to them every night and not let the frustration of near-constant celibacy drive you crazy? And people say “well take a cold shower or get a hobby to distract yourself” – but if that ever actually worked, the human population would be a lot smaller. I think it’s going in the direction that we’ll try NFP for a while but if there’s too much fear or frustration we’ll eventually switch to BC. I just got to a place where I’m finally starting to listen and think clear, and I don’t want to mess that up by doing something I know is wrong, even though no one’s perfect. I know people will say it’s lust and if I really love her I won’t let that happen, but I don’t have a solution. Maybe after a trial run with BC, when we’re both ready we’ll be able to switch back to NFP, and it will work this time?

I know this sounds immature and selfish, and I don’t mean it to, but I’m actually trying to accomplish something here, and do God’s work and sacrifice to make that happen, but at the same time I’m not a superhero and can’t do everything right all the time, even though I try to. Basically I’m kind of hoping that no matter what I do, God will stay with me and eventually give me the strength to serve him better and be a better leader. But then there’s people who say, umm no, you broke the rules so you go to hell. This isn’t even specific to NFP. Basically, it boils down to the fact that I don’t know how to make an ethical decision. And I’m on thin ice with God as it is. :juggle:

We used NFP for years until we didn’t need it any more. There is no better way to build up a marriage! Did you know that shack up couples (usually use BC) have an 80% divorce rate! Couples who live the Churches teachings, and practice NFP have a less than 2% divorce rate! What an incredible difference. I can tell you too that a lot of types of birth control will kill your girlfriends sex drive. So you imagine it’s gonna be great on BC, but if she’s not interested, it’s not happening. Also have you read the side effects of BC? Thousands of women die every year from them.

Go take the NFP classes it’s amazing what you learn. You’ll know way more than all your friends. You only have to abstain during her fertile period. The rest of the month is celebration time. You grow so much closer when you exercise sexual self control. You find fun things to do together, like you do now. You tend to talk a lot more, which keeps your marriage healthy. Also, very important here, she will have a healthy, natural cycle which means a good healty sex drive. The waiting brings, anticipation into the marriage! It’s like you have a mini honeymoon every month. Also during her fertile time her sex drive will ramp up, but she has to wait to be with you. She will long to be with you. That is so good for your marriage. So many of my BC friends hate it when their husbands try to initiate. They are always shooting them down. It’s sad. But my NFP friends just smile & look at their husbands with deep affection. They are still hot for each other after 20 years of marriage!

God created you both, and He knows what will make you the most successful mentaly, physically, and spiritually!

 

[St_Francis]

InTraining,
The “end” or reason God gave us the marital act is so we can work with Him in the creation of more of His highest creatures! In addition, He was kind enough to make it pleasurable and conducive to drawing the spouses closer together.

Few are ready to have babies. I found that you can’t practice things specific to raising children until they come along, so when we marry and have children, we gain what is needed by being parents.

One major problem that I rarely see mentioned is the attitude of our society towards babies. The schools spend years telling girls not to “get caught” by getting pregnant. Every program I have seen to show girls not to get pregnant is like the potato sack thing where you carry a sack of potatoes or a doll of some sort, and “take care” of it.

But what these experiences do is to *completely leave out the best part, *the only part which makes having babies worthwhile! So our society promotes an idea that having a baby is bad, and that having a baby is nothing more than drudgery.

So what is the good part? Cooperating with God’s plan for your life and the continuation of this world! Having a baby to love and teach, a baby who will look at you with eyes of love. A baby who will grow into a teenager and drive you crazy and then into an adult who will hopefully make you proud as they find their own way.

It’s an increase in love, and it comes from the love you and your wife share with each other!

Please don’t wait to have children. Esp 10 years! Right now is really the best time to have start your family, for more reasons than I can say in this post.

 

[In_Training]

I have a lot to say about this so I’ll go one at a time. First it is contradictory. You start by saying you don’t want to limit frequency but then suggests you’ll abstain 100% for ten years! I’m sure I won’t be alone in telling you this, but even once a month is better than never!

Next you need to understand why you want to delay children and for how long you think this would be necessary. If you think you need to delay 10 years then it is probably wise to postpone the wedding as you aren’t really ready for marriage yet.

You mention you are queasy learning about her biology. Perhaps learning about her biology would make you less queasy over it? Also in marriage there is a good potential for many ‘queasy’ experiences. In example I was listening to the radio today and the host mentioned how he had been sick and made a mess all over the bed he shared with his wife, and how she was so kind to clean all the mess up for him so he could keep resting. That to me sounds icky, but I would do the same if my DH were sick in such a manner.

Moving on, if you needed to use NFP then you would probably take some time to learn it before marriage so you could be confident with the method. Perhaps you’d be more cautious at first limiting yourself to less days of relations but as you grew in confidence trust more days each cycle. Just make sure you aren’t irrationally afraid of the possibility and are doing so for just reasons.

NFP by its very nature will start out frustrating and somewhat fearful. We have been conditioned as a society to believe that the only way to avoid pregnancy is ABC. To throw that to the wind when you need to avoid and trust NFP is scary. Ultimately it is more rewarding because you have placed your trust in God and his design for your life. ABC still fails and couples fall pregnant every year using it. With NFP at least you know what times you are likely to fall pregnant, ABC is a big gamble because you can’t know when it has failed. If you look across the fence jealous of all the “fun times” the ABC users can have it will be harder to embrace NFP. You would need to focus on your own life and all the “fun times” you can have. Also statistics show that NFP users have relations just as much if not more than ABC users.

One major problem that I rarely see mentioned is the attitude of our society towards babies. The schools spend years telling girls not to “get caught” by getting pregnant. Every program I have seen to show girls not to get pregnant is like the potato sack thing where you carry a sack of potatoes or a doll of some sort, and “take care” of it.

But what these experiences do is to *completely leave out the best part, *the only part which makes having babies worthwhile! So our society promotes an idea that having a baby is bad, and that having a baby is nothing more than drudgery.

So what is the good part? Cooperating with God’s plan for your life and the continuation of this world! Having a baby to love and teach, a baby who will look at you with eyes of love. A baby who will grow into a teenager and drive you crazy and then into an adult who will hopefully make you proud as they find their own way.

It’s an increase in love, and it comes from the love you and your wife share with each other!

Please don’t wait to have children. Esp 10 years! Right now is really the best time to have start your family, for more reasons than I can say in this post.

Probably be in trouble for saying this to other Catholics, but I’m familiar with her anatomy. I understand biology and know in detail how NFP works, but I just don’t want to hear about ovulating and mucus and… but I don’t wanna put it all on her shoulders either, so I have to be involved… just makes me nauseous, and ABC didn’t. Obviously I don’t want to limit frequency but with NFP I’ll have to. We kind of had a pregnancy scare last year and it made us realize that neither of us could or want to be parents until we’re older, so the only way to guarantee that is by never having sex… I know NFP’s success rate vs. failure rate and it all sounds good but I’m scared to trust it. Well, more like I’m scared to trust us with it. I try to be open to life but I don’t have the finances or the emotional maturity to be that selfless yet. And I’ve been a bad influence on my younger brother and we’ve both gotten in a lot of trouble for it (but if my parents ask I’m sticking to my original story, which is my brother’s an idiot and that has nothing to do with me). But I do think that marriages can be valuable even if they don’t start to spawn as soon as the rings are on.

I agree that the middle school project of carrying around baby dolls and taking care of them is idiotic. But at the same time, whether they’re 12 or 20 or 36, people who aren’t ready or aren’t willing to be parents create children who feel unwanted and not cared for. When I was in high school pills + condoms meant that you didn’t get pregnant, and even in the extreme off-chance that you did, I thought she could just get an abortion and nobody would ever know. Now that I’m older I realize I could never do that, so the possibility of pregnancy is a lot scarier now, which is why I’m so scared of dropping ABC. My problem is that I want to do what God wants, but I want to do what I want more, so even though I know what to do, I don’t know what to do. Long story short, I kinda sorta have an incredibly destructive past, and I want God to know that I came back, that I’m following, and that I want to be the person he wants me to be, which is why I’m getting hung up on even the little things like stop lying, stop cursing, stop going against God…

And you people think I’m mature enough to be a good influence on a kid, just because I might get married???

Prayers appreciated.

 

[akela135]

In Training, being open to life was the hardest thing I have ever had to deal with as a Catholic. I have never wanted to have children and even now I dread the day I end up with one. I pray to have my opinion changed before God blesses me in such a way. When I realized to marry my DH I’d have to be open to life I had to think about what the Catholic faith meant to me. Once I determined I wanted to live a good Catholic life I knew I had two choices.

1. Break up with my DH and live a single and childfree life.
2. Marry my DH and be open to life, accepting the children God sent to us.

Let me rephrase those two choices in this way I wanted to marry my DH and I wanted to live without children. To be a good Catholic I could only pick one of those. I prayed really hard to decide. As I’m sure you have realized, I decided that DH was more important to me than being childfree.

You must pray about the choices you will have to make in your own life. I know that if you decide on the path God wants for your life, he will give you strength enough to live it. Have courage!

 

[pacang]

Hi there!

Yep, I feel your pain. My wife and I have been on NFP for a couple of years now, and it does seem so wrong to be right laying beside the woman you love and not make love to her.

People have told me as well that I just have to find a hobby - this didn’t quite work for me. I’m into triathlon and photography, have self-studied the piano and Spanish, have written journals, short stories and a fantasy novel, all over my 8-5 job and raising three kids (plus one on the way), but none of it has helped. At the end of the day, you still have to go to bed and snuggle beside the woman of your dreams in the cold, dark night. It’s inevitable: you will want to have marital contact.

The only thing that has helped me forget about sexual relations with my wife was alcohol – yes, you’re right, that’s probably worse. Don’t worry, I’m not an alcoholic or anything. Just to be honest though, the alcohol did what the hobbies couldn’t do.

Did you know that shack up couples (usually use BC) have an 80% divorce rate! Couples who live the Churches teachings, and practice NFP have a less than 2% divorce rate! What an incredible difference.

I’m sorry, but I would have to disagree with this. Yes, the statistics are probably correct, but I think the numbers are misinterpreted. See, the people who use BC are also most likely to be people who have no problems with divorce, hence the high divorce rate. Meanwhile, people who use NFP are usually only Catholics (SERIOUS Catholics, at that), the kind of people who would not divorce no matter what, hence the low divorce rate. It’s not so much NFP causing less divorce, it’s just that NFP users are less likely to divorce in the first place.

Also during her fertile time her sex drive will ramp up, but she has to wait to be with you. She will long to be with you. That is so good for your marriage. So many of my BC friends hate it when their husbands try to initiate. They are always shooting them down. It’s sad. But my NFP friends just smile & look at their husbands with deep affection. They are still hot for each other after 20 years of marriage!

Again, I’m sorry, but I have to disagree. Fertile time, my wife initiates sex, and it takes everything I have to turn her down. After her fertile time (as well as before), she has no interest in sex whatsoever. And yes, she hates it when I initiate sex when she’s not fertile, and she does shoot me down during those times as well. There’s a whole lot of affection from her to me, yes. Massages, holding hands, hugs and kisses, etc. But when it comes to sex, she treats me like the plague when she’s not fertile and looks at me like I’m Brad Pitt when she is.

Don’t get me wrong – I’m pro NFP. Like I’ve said, we’ve been on it for years. However, I don’t think that if we were to start using condoms, our chances of divorce would shoot up to 80% from 2%. And I don’t think all that waiting has been good for our sex life as well. And most of all, I don’t think it’s easy.

@ Regina Love: Sorry, sorry! I’m not trying to pick on you or anything. It’s just that my experiences have been different. I apologize for seeming harsh here – that is the last thing I wish to do.

@ IntTraining: To answer your question though, yes, I recommend you still use NFP. It’s tough, yes. Very tough (I myself has just gotten through a week of deliberating whether or not to get a vasectomy – I’ve decided not). But rules are rules. See, sex is sacred and should be open to life, free of any intention to rob it of its live-giving qualities. Guys like us, we stand on really thin ice with this ALL THE TIME. We just have to pray, work with our spouses, keep our head down and keep working on it some more.

We have to remember that by practicing NFP and by putting in all those days of abstinence, we are sacrificing and sacrificing a LOT. Offer up all this sacrifice to God as prayer. After all, our faith is a faith of sacrifice, not of convenience.

Sorry I couldn’t be any more encouraging (honestly, I could use a whole lot of encouragement myself now), but I really do hope this helps.