The problem with Fatima

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There are two problems with the Fatima miracle that lead me to tend to doubt its authenticity.
  1. The vision of Hell. The depiction of Hell as a literal lake of fire is a concept the Church has been getting away from. If the Blessed Mother was giving the children a metaphorical vision to scare them into good behavior, then the Blessed Mother is deceitful, which of course is not possible.
  2. According to Lucia, the Blessed Mother told her that their friend, Amelia, would be in Purgatory until the end of time. if that’s the fate of a child, what hope is there for the rest of us?
Please discuss.
 
Do we “get away” from things?

That struck me as interesting.
Hell is horrible, we can just leave it there if you wish.

I take what Sister Lucia says or people have “reported” that she said with a grain of salt.

No one is compelled to believe or have a devotion to Fatima.

It’s devotion to OUR LADY as the Mother of God that we should embrace, not the particulars of her comings and goings.

In my unscientific thinking, most of the Catholics that I have met that have a strong love and devotion to the Virgin Mary are much more peaceful people, much more convinced of God’s mercy, and much more grateful for the love of Christ, Simply because Mary talks about it all the time, She lived it on earth.
She gave birth to pure love. That HAS to count for something from us.
God bless you.
 
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  1. Quidquid recipitur ad modum recipientis recipitur
  2. This one is to personal for us to judge. Also, I thought she was around 17 years old.
 
“Cone said:
There are two problems with the Fatima miracle that lead me to tend to doubt its authenticity.
  1. The vision of Hell. The depiction of Hell as a literal lake of fire is a concept the Church has been getting away from. If the Blessed Mother was giving the children a metaphorical vision to scare them into good behavior, then the Blessed Mother is deceitful, which of course is not possible.
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Was Jesus being deceitful?

Matthew 5:22 [a]But I say to you, whoever is angry with his brother will be liable to judgment, and whoever says to his brother, ‘Raqa,’ will be answerable to the Sanhedrin, and whoever says, ‘You fool,’ will be liable to fiery Gehenna.
  1. According to Lucia, the Blessed Mother told her that their friend, Amelia, would be in Purgatory until the end of time. if that’s the fate of a child, what hope is there for the rest of us?
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Indeed.

1 Peter 4:17 For it is time for the judgment to begin with the household of God; if it begins with us, how will it end for those who fail to obey the gospel of God?
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Devotion to Our Lady of Fatima is one of the big issues I have with Marian devotion.

In my mind, no mother, especially the Mother of God, would use horrific, graphic images of Hell to scare children.
 
Nothing has been revealed to us through the Church if there are any humans in hell. We are allowed to hope it’s empty. If you believe the Fatima miracle than it has been revealed that there are not only people in hell but a whole boatload every second is headed down. I have a problem with all visions of Hell.

I wonder if the saved can see hell? If it’s a place that is completely separated from God, how can someone that is one with God see it? Not sure if that’s a nonsensical question.

ETA: I do have a devotion to Our Lady. I’m considering making my consecration to her soon. Not sure what date I’ll start, either this month or next (need to re-check the calendar).
 
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J_Peterson said:
I wonder if the saved can see hell? If it’s a place that is completely separated from God, how can someone that is one with God see it? Not sure if that’s a nonsensical question.
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No, actually it’s a good question. One that I wish @frdavid96 wouls weigh in on. If there is an answer, he is the one who knows it.
 
The good news is that Fatima is a private revelation and no one is bound by the Church to believe in it…

I think too often too much emphasis is placed on private revelation like Fatima or Lourdes or Guadalupe… when all we need is scripture, revelation and the teaching of the Church Fathers… all that is essential lies in those three things.
 
I’m not sure it’s too much. The message of all is important.
It’s the message, not the delivery, not the people, the message.
Guadalupe alone converted the same amount of people lost in the Reformation. It’s when we overthink the message or try to make it fit into science that people get all worked up,
Can people go overboard? Yes. Case in point: there is a woman who prostrated herself and made a spectacle of her piety at our parish during Mass. She made it about HER, and it caused quite the kerfuffle. People were upset, people were curious, people were giggling. In short, it took the emphasis off Mass, and Christ Himself. She couldn’t see the SACRAMENT for her own personal thoughts of devotion.
That’s the point of contention.
All Approved apparitions are about CHRIST and our Lady’s messages about loving Him. Everything else is not important.
 
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But there’s a problem with the mantra ‘It’s a private revelation, nobody has to believe it’. And that is the fact that churches have been dedicated to Our Lady of Fatima, so naturally, many Catholics in the street assume it’s official and has to be believed.
 
Cone said:
the Blessed Mother told her that their friend, Amelia, would be in Purgatory until the end of time. if that’s the fate of a child, what hope is there for the rest of us?
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I don’t know about you, but I don’t know when Amelia died. Perhaps she died as an adult and not a child?
 
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You have a problem with other people’s devotion? She’s the Mother of God. That is foremost.
 
“Cone said:
There are two problems with the Fatima miracle that lead me to tend to doubt its authenticity.

The vision of Hell. The depiction of Hell as a literal lake of fire is a concept the Church has been getting away from. If the Blessed Mother was giving the children a metaphorical vision to scare them into good behavior, then the Blessed Mother is deceitful, which of course is not pos
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Our Lady came from Heaven to three shepherd children with a message for the Pope and for all Catholics. She requested the Consecration of Russia by the Pope in union with all the Bishops.
She also asked for the faithful to attend Mass and make Communion of reperation on the five first Saturdays and pray for sinners. On October 13th 1917, one hundred years ago today the Miracle of the Sun was witnessed by 70000 pilgrims present at the Cova da Iria.
 
I don’t see the issue with the mantra … the Church teaches that it is private revelation and that no one is bound to it. You see it is not a mantra, it is not me saying this… it’s Church teaching. I’m good with that.
 
It was never an official teaching.

Much like the words of Lucia…it was a way of instruction to people they felt were not well educated. We can argue that on another thread though, LOL
Same way the church moved away from bread, to sterile, hard hosts that leave no crumbs.
The substance of the teaching in there…GET BAPTIZED asap, but the method of delivery has yes, very much changed.
 
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J_Peterson said:
I wonder if the saved can see hell? If it’s a place that is completely separated from God, how can someone that is one with God see it? Not sure if that’s a nonsensical question.
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The Bible is silent on the answer to your question to my understanding and reading.
 
pianistclare said:
It was never an official teaching.
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My wife swore up and down like other Cradle Catholics that it was!

You have no idea the number of Catholics that still believe it still is a teaching because either they have not heard it on EWTN, the NEWs or from the Pulpit.

Really, you would be amazed by the number of Elderly that still actually believe it is Doctrine.
 
godisgood77 said:
The good news is that Fatima is a private revelation and no one is bound by the Church to believe in it…

I think too often too much emphasis is placed on private revelation like Fatima or Lourdes or Guadalupe… when all we need is scripture, revelation and the teaching of the Church Fathers… all that is essential lies in those three things.
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Bravo Zulu Dude.
 
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