The problem with Fatima

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I know.

I’ve heard it in the pulpit. Let me go look for something…brb
 
pianistclare said:
I know.

I’ve heard it in the pulpit. Let me go look for something…brb
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Before the announcement, I had tried to tell my wife it was not doctrine, she accused me of a Heretic and I slept on the couch for a week!!!
 
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I know I don’t have to believe it, but the Church says it is worthy of belief, and I am sticking with the Church on this one. I don’t have to believe it, but I don’t see a reason not to believe it. The purpose of private Revelations, is to strengthen one’s faith, I don’t see the problem here.
 
In these reflections we have sought so far to identify the theological status of private revelations. Before undertaking an interpretation of the message of Fatima, we must still attempt briefly to offer some clarification of their anthropological (psychological) character. In this field, theological anthropology distinguishes three forms of perception or “vision”: vision with the senses, and hence exterior bodily perception, interior perception, and spiritual vision (visio sensibilis - imaginativa - intellectualis). It is clear that in the visions of Lourdes, Fatima and other places it is not a question of normal exterior perception of the senses: the images and forms which are seen are not located spatially, as is the case for example with a tree or a house. This is perfectly obvious, for instance, as regards the vision of hell (described in the first part of the Fatima “secret”) or even the vision described in the third part of the “secret”. But the same can be very easily shown with regard to other visions, especially since not everybody present saw them, but only the “visionaries”. It is also clear that it is not a matter of a “vision” in the mind, without images, as occurs at the higher levels of mysticism. Therefore we are dealing with the middle category, interior perception. For the visionary, this perception certainly has the force of a presence, equivalent for that person to an external manifestation to the senses.

http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/c...on_cfaith_doc_20000626_message-fatima_en.html
 
The other problem is that with the 3rd Secret and the controversy surrounding it.

Lúcia declared that the Third Secret could be released to the public after 1960. Some sources, including Canon Barthas and Cardinal Ottaviani, said that Lúcia insisted to them it must be released by 1960, saying that, “by that time, it will be more clearly understood”, and, "because the Blessed Virgin wishes it so Instead, in 1960 the Vatican published an official press release stating that it was "most probable the Secret would remain, forever, under absolute seal This announcement triggered widespread speculation. According to the New York Times, speculation over the content of the secret ranged from "worldwide nuclear annihilation to deep rifts in the Roman Catholic Church that lead to rival papacies.

The Vatican did not publish the Third Secret, a four-page, handwritten text, until 26 June 2000.

Such writers as Father Paul Kramer, Christopher Ferrara, Antonio Socci, and Marco Tosatti have suggested that this was not the full text of the secret and stating the Third Secret is not the full text. They alleged that Cardinals Bertone, Ratzinger and Sodano concealed the existence of another one-page document, containing information about the Apocalypse and a great apostasy.

Given that we have had some Shady Popes and some Popes do Shady things in the Past…well you get my belief in understanding the delay and suspicion of some exclusion of text…

The Popes defiled the wishes of the Blessed Mother by not releasing it in it’s entirety in 1960.
 
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Hence, Our Lady’s reply to the question I asked her about that girl --Amelia-- was as follows: “She will be in purgatory until the end of the world.” This may seem a lot to us, but the mercy of God is always great. By our sins we have gravely offended Him and deserved hell! In spite of this, He forgives us and grants us time to pay for them and , by means of reparation and purification, to be saved. Moreover, He accepts the prayers and sacrifices that others offer to Him for the benefit of those who are in this place of expiation.

Sister Lucia.

Also I think their friend was 18 or 20.
 
The year 2000 is after 1960 so I don’t see the problem.

I believe it is all of the secret as the Popes have said it is.
 
You know, the “secrets” don’t mean much to me.
I’m amazed that people hang so much thought on it.

I prefer to think about Mary in her sublime role, as my mother and guide, and role model as a woman.

Secrets? meh. I put that right up there with end-time speculation.

I couldn’t care less.
 
I am going to address the problematic points instead of the revelation. Many are tripped by the concept of Hell. But do most know that Gehenna is a physical place, a valley, to be specific. It is believed to have been used for child sacrifice and cursed and by the time Jesus was here, the imagery of Gehenna fire was well understood. That is what he used. For us, much of our imagery of Hell comes from Dante, and we do not relate it to a physical place on Earth. So while the Church may now be getting away from this imagery, that was not the case when Mary appeared to those kids. She would have used imagery they understood. That is not deceitful. That is communicating as Christ did, and as we often do.

As to the time spent in Purgatory, where time really has not meaning, she had to do the same thing. It is critical that we understand the mindset of their time to get the context. If this is an issue, then by all means find some other devotion you consider edifying. I feel the same way you do about St. Loius de Montfort.
 
pianistclare said:
You know, the “secrets” don’t mean much to me.

I’m amazed that people hang so much thought on it.
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Well The Blessed Mother thought something about them. As SHE was the one whom delivered them.

But then again I don’t believe in the whole Fatima thing at all. General Revelation died with the Last Apostle. The Book of Revelation is “The End”

Children were eating some bad mushrooms or something OR were sick with fever…
 
Considering what has happened when it was released, I only question if releasing then was even prudent. People love their gnosticisms.
 
I’m not going that far.
But I am skeptical about the secrets.
Predictions maybe, but secrets? Makes no sense to me.
I don’t think OUr Lady operates that way. Now you’ve got me wondering who started with the term “secrets” anyway.
In my mind, secrets are not to be revealed in the first place.

Oh well, as I said, it doesn’t change my love for Our Lady.
 
pnewton said:
But do most know that Gehenna is a physical place, a valley, to be specific.
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I was going to address this. Gehenna alledgedly was a valley of trash. Like our landfills of today. It also comprised of dead bodies of Gentiles disposed of because they were not worthy of burial. It is also a source of natural gas leaks. It literally burned in some places. Some fires were actually the burning fumes of decaying matter as that would be 99% of the composite of a land fill back during that era of time ( no paper, no plastic,etc etc etc.).
 
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Orly?
I googled Hebrew definition of Gehenna:

gehenna. n. “hell,” from post-biblical Hebrew gehinnom, “Hell, place of fiery torment for the dead,” figurative use of the place name Ge Hinnom “the Valley of Hinnom,” southwest of Jerusalem, where, according to Jer. xix.5, children were sacrificed to Moloch.
 
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