The problem with God's Love

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Epistemes

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The problem with God’s Love is how impersonal and abstract it is. Indeed, God in his goodness and loving-kindness provides for all men and women, sinner and saint alike; and, indeed, God guides us all to His most compassionate Son that we may find forgiveness and ultimately redemption; and indeed, God has provided us with His own mother, Our Lady, as advocate and example, who guards our souls within the folds of her dress. God is God, and in his mercifulness he has granted all of us who are now capable of reading this thread life and promises life to the fullest…

…but the problem with God’s Love is how impersonal and abstract it is. God’s Love cannot hug me, nor hold me, nor look into my eyes and tell me that it’s going to be alright…and that’s what I need right now.
 
Epistemes, consider yourself hugged. And you’re wrong about the impersonal nature of God’s responses to us. Yes, He’s “out there”, Transcendent, but also “as close as your breath”

Let me tell you a hug story that really happened to me when I was going through an awful, exhausting time. I’d just moved back to my home state and had taken a job for low pay and long hours just to survive for awhile. I had a roommate, a sort of “adopted” little sister I’d known since we were kids, and we hadn’t been getting along for awhile; two hens who wanted to rule the roost. We barely spoke most of the time. This particular night I was bone-tired and depressed when I came home from work. I felt so hopeless that things would ever improve. I laid down on my bed and was very close to tears. With absolutely no forethought, I prayed silently, “Jesus, I need You to hug me.” Within 15 seconds, my little sister came into my room, laid down behind me and put her arms around me. She didn’t say anything, she just hugged me for a long time. She’d never done it before and never did it again; neither of us are huggy people. God does have ways of hugging, encouraging, etc. It just takes the right eyes to see it. I hope you experience that soon, especially for Christmas.
 
FickleFreckled, that is a beautiful story. Thank you for sharing it! 👍

Re: impersonal love?

God, God became a human being. Incarnation. Carnal. Creature. Sweated, bled, probably caught a cold now and then. Then God as human said, “Love each other as I have loved you.” He also said (paraphrased: in John’s gospel), “I am in You, Father and You are in Me and I am in them.” How personal can it be! FickleFreckled has it right!

Blessed Christmas. Emmanuel, God is with us! :amen:
 
Certainly God can comfort and hug you. He just uses us to do it. :hug1:

Prayers for you, Epistemes.
 
Impersonal is definitely the wrong word.

Intangible might be a better choice… and I struggle with that, too, btw. 😦
 
A visiting priest once gave the shortest homily I ever heard. It went like this:

The priest held out his open palm and said, "Imagine this is the hand of God. We are just an infinitesimally small speck of dust in His hand. One day, the speck of dust asks, “Where is God?”

Then the priest sat down.

You have my prayers, E.
 
If it’s true that “In Him we live and move and have our being”, how can He be impersonal? There’s a time to experience the Transcendence of God, and then there’s Christmas. A warm baby, cuddled against His mother’s breast, learning human love and affection from the only people who could teach Him - humans. When He grew up, he cuddled children on His lap and expressed great fondness for them. He must have laughed with the apostles (and at them) as much as He taught them. He enjoyed banquets. He fed people when they were hungry. My favorite story in the Gospels is the totally unexpected one of Jesus cooking breakfast for some of the apostles after His resurrection. And when He asked Peter if he loved Him, it was hardly impersonal. If Peter hadn’t loved Jesus in a very human way, he never would have been open to loving in a supernatural way. Peter loved Jesus because Jesus loved him first. The same way He loves you, Epistemes. Not you-as-part-of-the-mass-of-humanity, but you, all by yourself.
 
The problem with God’s Love is how impersonal and abstract it is. Indeed, God in his goodness and loving-kindness provides for all men and women, sinner and saint alike; and, indeed, God guides us all to His most compassionate Son that we may find forgiveness and ultimately redemption; and indeed, God has provided us with His own mother, Our Lady, as advocate and example, who guards our souls within the folds of her dress. God is God, and in his mercifulness he has granted all of us who are now capable of reading this thread life and promises life to the fullest…

…but the problem with God’s Love is how impersonal and abstract it is. God’s Love cannot hug me, nor hold me, nor look into my eyes and tell me that it’s going to be alright…and that’s what I need right now.
brother, I’m sorry that you’re hurting.

i want to tell you that His love is not like this at all!!

It is exactly the opposite 🙂
His love is very personal for us… He doesn’t just love “all people” generally… it’s not like His love is divided between each person. It can’t be like this, because His love is infinite! He gives His Heart to each person. If you were the only person in the world, Jesus still would have died for you.

A priest once told me… (this is during a time when I was really struggling) that if I could see Jesus now, He would not be angry, but would look at me with so much love in His eyes. This is how Jesus is ALWAYS with us… we can’t see Him yet, but He’s near. In the Eucharist, we experience the greatest intimacy with Him.

:hug1:
 
Epistemes, consider yourself hugged. And you’re wrong about the impersonal nature of God’s responses to us. Yes, He’s “out there”, Transcendent, but also “as close as your breath”

Let me tell you a hug story that really happened to me when I was going through an awful, exhausting time. I’d just moved back to my home state and had taken a job for low pay and long hours just to survive for awhile. I had a roommate, a sort of “adopted” little sister I’d known since we were kids, and we hadn’t been getting along for awhile; two hens who wanted to rule the roost. We barely spoke most of the time. This particular night I was bone-tired and depressed when I came home from work. I felt so hopeless that things would ever improve. I laid down on my bed and was very close to tears. With absolutely no forethought, I prayed silently, “Jesus, I need You to hug me.” Within 15 seconds, my little sister came into my room, laid down behind me and put her arms around me. She didn’t say anything, she just hugged me for a long time. She’d never done it before and never did it again; neither of us are huggy people. God does have ways of hugging, encouraging, etc. It just takes the right eyes to see it. I hope you experience that soon, especially for Christmas.
A visiting priest once gave the shortest homily I ever heard. It went like this:

The priest held out his open palm and said, "Imagine this is the hand of God. We are just an infinitesimally small speck of dust in His hand. One day, the speck of dust asks, “Where is God?”

Then the priest sat down.

You have my prayers, E.
awesome stories 🙂
 
God is the source of all Love, because he is Love. Whatever love you have, originated from Him. Whatever love others have for you originated from Him. Look at all the posts you have in reply to yours. These people love you. God loves you. :hug1:
 
It occurred to me after my last post that when we receive Jesus in the Eucharist, we experience a deeper union with Him than a hug or His looking into our eyes and telling us it will be okay. We are closer to Him than if we could hold Him as an infant in Bethlehem. We are closer than the hemorrhaging woman who was healed simply by touching His robe, or any number of the sick and suffering who approached Him during His ministry on earth. Jesus has already given and continues to give all of Himself. Additionally, if we are in a state of grace, God dwells within us. What more do you need?

Infinite grace is available to us every time we receive Christ.

What effect does receiving the Eucharist have?

The Eucharist, like all sacraments, gives us sanctifying grace which raises us to God’s level. It doesn’t make us equal to God, but it gives us a share in His divine life. While we are here on earth, we aren’t consciously privy to this. We know it only by faith–and at times by the spiritual strength it gives us.
Still by the very fact that when one receives the Eucharist, God enters one’s body and involves us in a divine-human intimacy that we could never achieve by ourselves no matter how we tried. It truly is the holiest of communions. As one grows in appreciation of this, one finds that it is more than anyone could ever hope for in life this side of the grave!
Fr. Vincent Serpa, O.P.
**But, receiving the graces Christ wishes to lavish on us requires something from us. **

Embracing Both Sacrament and Sacramental Effect
*O almighty, everlasting God, behold, I draw near to the Sacrament of your only-begotten Son, our Lord Jesus Christ.
I draw near, as a sick man to the Physician of life, as one defiled to the Fountain of mercy, as one blind to the Light of Eternal Splendor, as one poor and needy to the Lord of Heaven and Earth.
Therefore I implore you, in your infinite goodness, that you would graciously cure my sickness, wash away my defilement, give light to my blindness, enrich my poverty, and clothe my nakedness, so that I may receive the Bread of Angels, the King of Kings, and Lord of Lords, with such contrition and devotion, such purity and faith, such purpose and intention, as to attain the welfare and salvation of my soul.
Grant me, I beseech you, to receive not only the Sacrament of the Body and Blood of my Lord, but also the very Reality and Strength of the Sacrament.
O most gracious God, grant me so to receive the Body of your only begotten Son, our Lord Jesus Christ that very body which he took of the Virgin Mary, that I may be truly incorporated into his mystical body, and so numbered among its members.
O most loving Father, grant me at last to behold unveiled and forevermore your beloved Son, whom, in my pilgrimage, I receive now beneath the veil of this blessed Sacrament.
Who lives and reigns with you in the unity of the Holy Spirit, God, forever and ever. Amen.*
This is intentional reception of the Eucharist. Note that St. Thomas distinguishes between the physical reception of the sacrament and the reception of the “reality and strength” of the Sacrament. There is nothing magical or unconscious going on here. When faith and positive disposition (actively disposing oneself toward change in anticipation of receiving the grace to actually change) meets the grace of the sacrament, we begin to experience actual transformation.
 
It occurred to me after my last post that when we receive Jesus in the Eucharist, we experience a deeper union with Him than a hug or His looking into our eyes and telling us it will be okay.
that is so true!! 🙂 in the Eucharist, He unites Himself with us… it shows so much about His love.
here’s an excerpt from a book about this 🙂

(from the Imitation of the Sacred Heart of Jesus)

CHAPTER I. THE MOST BLESSED SACRAMENT OF THE EUCHARIST IS
AN INVENTION OF THE LOVE OF THE MOST SACRED HEART OF JESUS
  1. The voice of Jesus.-----I was dead, My Child, and behold I am living for ever more.
I had come forth from the Father, and had come into the world: at last I was leaving the world to return to the Father.

However, the love of My Heart did not allow nor suffer that I should leave them orphans, whom I cherished more than My Own life.

The love of My father called and invited Me, that, coming, I might be glorified with Him, with the glory which I had with Him before the world was created.

The love of men also invited and urged Me on, that, staying among them, I might comfort them amidst all the troubles of life.

And behold! My Heart invented a means of satisfying both My love for My Father, and My Love for men.

A mystery, My Child, that going up into Heaven I may be seated at the right of the Father, and abide with you even to the consummation of the world.

A mystery, which, unless I Myself had drawn it forth from My Heart, no mortal could ever have imagined: a mystery which transcends all created nature: a mystery, in fine, which exceeds all finite power.

There is need, therefore, of stupendous miracles, to be wrought by Divine omnipotence alone. But love triumphs: love, which in My Divine Heart found the design, there also found the power of executing the same.

All things are possible, all things are easy, if I will them in My Heart, Whose Will is power and execution.
  1. As men were not able to bear the sight of My glorified Majesty, and the world could not subsist in the effulgence of such a brightness; regard was to be had to their weakness, lest, alarmed at the splendor of My greatness, they might be kept away.
Wherefore, I must needs conceal My dazzling glory, and display naught that might fill them with dread.

Moreover, My Child, since thou hast here no permanent city, but lookest for one to come, it is expedient for thee, that I do abide with thee under another form; lest, forgetting that thou art a pilgrim on earth, thou be willing to make here thy abode, and cling to the things of the present; but that, mindful of thy place of exile, thou mayst aspire to thy country, where thou shalt be able, with face unveiled, to gaze upon My glory.

Lastly, since this life is short, and after it there shall be no longer any time to gain merits, it is good and most useful that I hide My countenance, that thus thou mayst have a greater opportunity of reducing to practice faith, as well as all other virtues.
  1. If for so many reasons it is advantageous that I dwell henceforth in another form among men upon earth: from among all possible forms that one should be chosen, which is best suited to My Heart, and most profitable to men.
Now, My Child, since I came down to men, that they might have spiritual life, and since I stay in their midst that they may have it more abundantly; and as the spiritual life bears in every way a resemblance to the material life, which is sustained and strengthened by natural food; they need a supernatural food, whereby the life of the spirit may be preserved, may grow in solidity, and flourish ever more and more.

It is better, therefore, that I remain under the appearance of food, since I am not only the Bread of life, but Life itself. For how much more abundantly will the faithful soul have life, if she be nourished with Life itself?

Besides, Child, My Heart is love: but love is the gift of one’s self, and does not rest until it has given and united itself to the object beloved.
 
Now, as in the life of nature. naught is more intimately united than food and the one that takes it; so also in the spiritual life, by the gift of My love, the greatest and most intimate union occurs between the soul and Myself.

This is that Divine and beatific union, whereby 1 can render every soul blissful: the work of a boundless love.

Finally, I am pleased to stay among men under the form of a banquet, which is a token of the greatest friendship, in order that, even upon earth, the faithful may rejoice in My supernal fellowship, which the Blessed in Heaven enjoy; and that they may recall with delight that never-ending bliss, wherein I dispose to you a kingdom, that you may eat and drink at My table, and where, girding Myself and going about, I will minister to you.

This will be the union everlasting, and thrillingly blissful,-----the Passover of never-ending joy,-----the wine of eternal love, which I will drink with you ever new in the kingdom of My Father.
  1. In order that men might gradually be prepared for mysteries so great, I willed that, in many ways, all this should be foreshadowed in the Old Law.
A figure thereof was the fruit of the tree of life planted in Paradise, by the food of which men, in a state of innocence, were to be nourished, and to bloom with life, that they might preserve themselves from death, and thus secure immortality.

A figure thereof was the bread and wine offered by Melchisedech, the priest and king: priest of the Most High, king of Salem, king of peace.

A figure thereof was the Paschal Lamb, the Lamb without blemish, which was both offered and eaten: which was to be consumed neither raw nor cooked, but prepared with fire: and they that eat the same were to have their loins girded, shoes on their feet, staves in their hands, as if in readiness to go on a journey.

A figure thereof was the Manna in the desert, which fell every day from Heaven, possessed the pleasantness of every kind of savor, was called the bread of Angels, of which neither he that gathered more than the usual measure had more, nor he that collected less than another possessed less.

A figure thereof was the Ark of the Covenant, wherein the Majesty of God was honored between the Cherubim; and whence He was wont, day and night, to impart to His people propitiation, aid, and comfort.

Lastly, a figure thereof was the bread baked under the ashes, whereby the Prophet was freed from his faintness and depression of spirit; and, endowed with new vigor, walked, on the strength of that food, even to the mountain of God.
  1. It was not unknown to Me, my Child, how much this institution would cost Me: how great and how many a sacrifice this My Sacramental life would require.
I know to what humiliations I subject Myself, to how many insults I expose Myself. But all these My Heart deems less than the love, whereby It is borne towards My Father and towards men.

My love is overcome by no obstacles: it triumphs easily over all. Nay more, these very difficulties themselves, it looks upon and displays, as so many proofs of its greatness and generosity.

Behold, then, eminently the great Sacrament of affectionateness, which, conceived by My love before all ages, was realized by My supreme power in time, appeared wonderful to the Angels, was preached to the nations: which has consoled the world, and which by its sweetness has inebriated the hearts of mortals.
 
CHAPTER XI. THE MOST SACRED HEART OF JESUS, IN THE SACRAMENT OF HIS LOVE,
IS OUR GREATEST CONSOLATION ON EARTH
  1. The voice of Jesus.-----My Child, behold My Tabernacle with men! behold here I dwell with them. Here I Myself console them that come, and I wipe away every tear from their eyes.
And, as there is no place on earth, where affliction does not sometimes shed tears, My Heart multiplies Its miracles, that It may everywhere multiply consolations.
Hence, thou mayst learn, My Child, that the mercy of My Heart is greater than man’s misery can be.

If any remedy, if any comfort is required in misfortune, here it is found in My Heart; here it is drawn with gladness from the same.

Behold! here I make all things new: things heavy I change into light, things tasteless I make to be savory: bitterness I turn into sweetness, mourning into joy of heart.

Nay, more, this vale of tears I transform into a Paradise; earth into heaven before its time. For here is the plentifulness of all the good things of Heaven, here is the fountain of peace and gladness; here are the Angels, here am I Myself, here is bliss ever-enduring.
  1. These are the wonders of love, Child, which My Heart works for thee, that thou mayst not be cast down amid the tribulations of life; but that, attracted by the goodness of My Heart, thou mayst come to this overflowing fountain of all consolation.
If thou hast once duly tasted Its sweetness, thou wilt soon forget every affliction of the past, or wilt even deem it all joy.

When, here before the Tabernacle, thou pourest forth thy heart; above all, when, after holy Communion, thou speakest to Me heart to Heart, and resignest thyself wholly to Me; then wilt thou perceive that affliction yields to consolation, fear to confidence, lukewarmness to fervor of heart.

If, overlooking Me, thou runnest elsewhere to find some one to relieve and help thee in thy dejection, thou shalt often be able to say: I sought some one to comfort me, but I found none.

But hither thou shalt never come in vain: hence thou shalt never depart without relief.

Hither, then, do thou ever fly, that thou mayst receive a remedy for thy troubles; and turn thy Sufferings into consoling merits.
  1. If misfortune, if loss of possessions or even if want fill thy heart with groanings and thy eyes with tears, so as to render thy soul weary of life; here, My Child, thou shalt find what no mortal can give thee; here thou shalt obtain a soothing of thy grief. If thou lookest upon My example, thy heart shall be comforted: My promise of permanent possessions, which thou shalt receive by sharing My inheritance, after having passed a few days here below, will cheer up thy spirit: lastly, the secret grace of My Heart will not rarely turn the tears of grief into tears of consolation.
If the world hates thee, if men slight, oppose, or oppress thee; here, O My Child, here in this mystery of love thou shalt be abundantly comforted: when thou possessest Me, yea, when thou pressest Me to thy heart, Me thy Saviour, thy faithful Friend, thy best and dearest Father, thou wilt be contented enough to be hidden, to be humbled with Me, that thou mayst be the more alike and pleasing to My Heart, in order to be forever exalted by Me among My elect.

And, if thou art afflicted or tormented with pains of the body and anguish of soul; behold, Child, behold where is thy solace, which alone can reach the innermost recesses of the ailing heart, and which none can hinder, except thyself----by hearkening rather to thy own thoughts than to My whisperings. Thou shalt also experience that which has been felt by thousands of faithful souls that came hither in sorrow, and with an aching heart; and soon, refreshed by the sweetness of the love of My Heart, went away their hearts dilated with bliss.

If annoyed by temptations, if worn down by desolateness; hasten hither, My Child. Behold! My Heart invites and awaits thee thus tempted and rendered desolate. It will receive thee with gladness; It will strengthen thee by Its own fortitude; It will fill thee with the sweetness of Its unction.

Shouldst thou even commit a fault, arise quickly, and run thou hither. Here thou shalt easily repair all: here thou shalt recover peace and joy of heart.

O if thou knewest, My Child, with how great a longing to console every one, My Heart watches here at all times,----consoling Itself whenever It comforts some one in his affliction;----thou wouldst then understand whence it is that none, in what trouble soever he may find himself, can come hither well-disposed to My Heart, without receiving consolation.
 
  1. For, in the sacred Tabernacle, thou now possessest Me, the same Saviour, that, whileth, when I lived a mortal life, comforted all: the very same Heart. that, whilst placed in the manger, gave peace to the Shepherds, and filled the Magi with heavenly delight: that, in childhood rejoiced them that came to Me: that, throughout life was the refuge and solace of all. Thou knowest, My Child, how all the sick and the weak, the blind and the lame, the deaf and the dumb, the wretched and the disconsolate were wont to appeal to My Heart, and implore Its compassion and help.
Was ever one of these disappointed in his hope, by what suffering soever he was bowed down; at what time soever of the day or of the night he
came to me?

Did not every one, in whatsoever hour he had recourse to the goodness of My Heart, go away more consoled than he had dared to hope? And, My Child, all these wonders, all these consolations, My Heart does here ceaselessly renew; but in a manner all the more perfect and useful, the more spiritual it is, and the better adapted to everlasting life.

There, indeed, It healed the diseases of the body: here It cures the ailments, the infirmities and miseries of the soul.

There It freed them that were possessed by the devil, or tormented by him; here It does more, since It guards the faithful against the demon.

There It cleansed those afflicted with leprosy: here It purifies souls, and makes them clean and whiter than snow.

There, by a miracle, It sated thousands of men with a natural food: here It nourishes all the faithful with the Bread of Angels.

There It restored the dead to life: here, what is better beyond comparison, It preserves souls from death.
  1. And as then My Heart, full of compassion, mercy, goodness, was accessible to all; so now It is open to every one, even to the most wretched and afflicted.
Believe not, My Child, even should a spirit suggest the thought, that My Heart does now possess a different feeling, either in respect to God, or with regard to men.
Take heed lest thou deem My Heart, that abides here to comfort thee, different from My Heart, that erewhile, in Its mortal life, so marvelously, so sweetly relieved men, and filled them with every consolation. For every spirit, that thus severs or divides My Heart, is not of God.
  1. Dilate thy heart, My Child, and understand, as much as thou art able, what comfort, here, as from a perennial fountain, flows down upon thee from My Heart.
    Behold all the consolations, admirable and delightful,----which, during Its mortal life, It imparted to many and various persons,----It bestows in Its Sacramental life upon thee alone.
How much happier, then, art thou, than they that were living at the time of My mortal life! Neither did these, like thyself, uninterruptedly enjoy My Presence: neither were they in the same manner, as thou, possessed of Me: nor, lastly, did they receive or enjoy Me, as thyself, O Child of My Heart.

Lo, then, to what a degree My Heart favors thee. In every necessity, therefore in every difficulty whether interior or exterior, do thou fly hither. Here, if thou art guilty, thou shalt obtain pardon, if sick, healing; if downhearted, courage and fortitude; if afflicted, relief and help; if in danger, protection and safety; a remedy for all miseries; always a true and sanctifying consolation.
 
Thank you all for your kind words. It has indeed been a rough few days and, for some reason, my “aloneness” has really sunk in deeply, moreso than it has in a long, long time. I know that my “aloneness” can only been fulfilled by God, and though my soul has been yearning for the Lord, my body also wishes to receive some consolation such as a hug.

After reading your posts, praying, and shedding some emotion, I feel much better than I did and am grateful for all the graces which the Lord bestows upon me. Indeed, I am grateful that I have the opportunity to celebrate Christmas with family, to receive Holy Communion several days in a row, and to rest both in body, mind and spirit before the new year begins.

Our Lord is the giver of all good gifts, and the greatest gift is Himself.

Merry Christmas!
 
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