The Problem With Toning Down the Rhetoric – And Why We Probably Won’t Do It

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Drawmack said:
If you want to explain that observation you have to ask the question to the people whose behavior you observe. You cannot simply assume the reason from the correlation. Again this is like observing that more people are drunk at night and assuming it is because moonlight causes intoxication.

If that is your hypothesis you have to test the hypothesis with questions to those you’re hypothisizing about. Until you do this you are making an assumption without the data to support it.
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Pro-abortion folks answer. Anti-abortion folks don’t. Why?

Here’s a question for all anti-abortion folks. Why don’t you answer? Why do you think pro-abortion folks do answer?
 
WillieWonka said:
Pro-abortion folks answer. Anti-abortion folks don’t. Why?

Here’s a question for all anti-abortion folks. Why don’t you answer? Why do you think pro-abortion folks do answer?
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That is the appropriate way to go about determining the reason, except for the last question. You’ll have to ask the pro-choice folks why they answer it.
 
Drawmack said:
That is the appropriate way to go about determining the reason, except for the last question. You’ll have to ask the pro-choice folks why they answer it.
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Good. Let’s ask another.

For anti-abortion folks. Do you decline to answer because acknowledging you would save the four-year-olds demonstrates you value their lives more than the life of a fetus? Do you value the life of a four-year-old more than you value the life of a fetus?

For pro-abortion folks. Why do you answer? Do you value the life of a four-year-old more than you value the life of a fetus?
 
WillieWonka said:
Good. Let’s ask another.

For anti-abortion folks. Do you decline to answer because acknowledging you would save the four-year-olds demonstrates you value their lives more than the life of a fetus? Do you value the life of a four-year-old more than you value the life of a fetus?

For pro-abortion folks. Why do you answer? Do you value the life of a four-year-old more than you value the life of a fetus?
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By asking your question to pro-life in the way you have you have limited your corelative abilities from this. See, now you’ve reduced it to a yes or no question. So, you’ll only be able to determine if that is the reason or not, but you will not be able to determine what the reason is if you’re supposition is incorrect.
 
Drawmack said:
By asking your question to pro-life in the way you have you have limited your corelative abilities from this. See, now you’ve reduced it to a yes or no question. So, you’ll only be able to determine if that is the reason or not, but you will not be able to determine what the reason is if you’re supposition is incorrect.
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Of course the question is limited if I am looking for correlation. Otherwise I’d have a cross correlation problem.

But, there is little to fear. Anti-abortion folks can’t answer, since it would reveal their varying valuation for life. But the point of the exercise is introspection When folks discover they have a varying valuation for life, they tend to tone down their condemnation of others for having similar varying valuation of life. It makes communication easier and more effective.
 
WillieWonka said:
Anti-abortion folks can’t answer, since it would reveal their varying valuation for life. But the point of the exercise is introspection When folks discover they have a varying valuation for life, they tend to tone down their condemnation of others for having similar varying valuation of life. It makes communication easier and more effective.
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The nazis had a similar varying valuation of life. Do we want to end up like them?
 
Drawmack said:
I answered your question so please stop saying that I won’t answer it.
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You did answer. Here’s your answer which shows equal value for the lives of both fetus and four-year-olds.

“1) I do everything I am capable of doing, within the law, to stop a million abortions today.
2) I would do everything I am capable of doing, within the law, to stop the chipping four year olds.”

However, you are not all anti-abortion folks.
 
miguel said:
The nazis had a similar varying valuation of life. Do we want to end up like them?
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Sure. I figure the Nazis also valued the life of the four-year-old more than the life of the fetus.

How about you?
 
WillieWonka said:
You did answer. Here’s your answer which shows equal value for the lives of both fetus and four-year-olds.

“1) I do everything I am capable of doing, within the law, to stop a million abortions today.
2) I would do everything I am capable of doing, within the law, to stop the chipping four year olds.”

However, you are not all anti-abortion folks.
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Correct, but when you say anti-abortion folks and do not include a modifier like some, many, or most you include those like myself into your grouping and that is not a valid statement.
 
WillieWonka said:
Sure. I figure the Nazis also valued the life of the four-year-old more than the life of the fetus.

How about you?
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Actually a fetus of good German stock would have been valued more than a Jewish four year old.
 
Drawmack said:
Correct, but when you say anti-abortion folks and do not include a modifier like some, many, or most you include those like myself into your grouping and that is not a valid statement.
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You are technically correct. But with such an overwhelming non-response, and such a meager response, I’m not going to worry about it. The intropection the exercise is designed to stimulate works either way.
 
Drawmack said:
Actually a fetus of good German stock would have been valued more than a Jewish four year old.
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Correct. There are certainly variations to the generally higher value placed on the four-year-old than the fetus. I doubt anyone is immune to having varying valuations on life, regardless of their rhetoric.
 
The rhetoric won’t tone down anytime soon because people have become enslaved to debate (argue) for it’s own sake. The Liar would rather have us continuously beat the life out of each other than focus our attention to God.

Once people remove themselves from the arguing and start to conforming to His will, rhetoric will be unnecessary and viewed as a quaint by-product of a pagan society.
 
WillieWonka said:
Sure. I figure the Nazis also valued the life of the four-year-old more than the life of the fetus.

How about you?
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They valued Jews less than non-Jews, non-German ethnicities less than German, the sick and infirm less than the healthy, etc. They followed their version of the varying valuation of life ethic…racial supremacy…to it’s logical conclusion…extermination camps…demonstrating for all posterity what happens when this kind of ethic gains power. Consistent with that, abortion was encouraged for the less-valued and discouraged for the more-valued. Personally, I support the equal protection clause of the 14th Amendment where it says"…nor shall any State…deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws." If a state has a law protecting one person from being murdered, it must provide the same protection to any other person. Does the phrase “any person” open the door to exceptions? No, exceptions open the door to extermination.
 
WillieWonka said:
You are technically correct. But with such an overwhelming non-response, and such a meager response, I’m not going to worry about it. The intropection the exercise is designed to stimulate works either way.
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Fine, don’t worry about propagating mistruths and I won’t worry about pointing out that you twist the truth for your own ends.
 
WillieWonka said:
Correct. There are certainly variations to the generally higher value placed on the four-year-old than the fetus. I doubt anyone is immune to having varying valuations on life, regardless of their rhetoric.
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I’m fairly certain that if you place any person in a room with two people, one whom is very close to them and one they do not know, and set up a scenario where only one person can be saved everyone will save the person they know. Additionally if they know neither person, people are more likely to save the person most similar to themselves (from what they can observe).

However, I do not think that this shows people value some life above other life. By setting up a situation where people must choose to sacrifice one life their only two options are to pick based on some criteria or allow both to die. As long as someone picks, they have shown a respect for human life.

That is the problem with a lot of these scenarios. If you force someone to pick one life over another it does not demonstrate that they value some life more than other life if they do indeed pick. It only shows that they value life enough to save as many as they can.
 
miguel said:
They valued Jews less than non-Jews, non-German ethnicities less than German, the sick and infirm less than the healthy, etc. They followed their version of the varying valuation of life ethic…racial supremacy…to it’s logical conclusion…extermination camps…demonstrating for all posterity what happens when this kind of ethic gains power. Consistent with that, abortion was encouraged for the less-valued and discouraged for the more-valued. Personally, I support the equal protection clause of the 14th Amendment where it says"…nor shall any State…deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws." If a state has a law protecting one person from being murdered, it must provide the same protection to any other person. Does the phrase “any person” open the door to exceptions? No, but exceptions open the door to extermination.
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Which is why we need to conclusively prove, through science, that a human fetus is a person. Rhetoric does not help this, but an argument can be made that it hinders the process.
 
miguel said:
They valued Jews less than non-Jews, non-German ethnicities less than German, the sick and infirm less than the healthy, etc. They followed their version of the varying valuation of life ethic…racial supremacy…to it’s logical conclusion…extermination camps…demonstrating for all posterity what happens when this kind of ethic gains power. Consistent with that, abortion was encouraged for the less-valued and discouraged for the more-valued. Personally, I support the equal protection clause of the 14th Amendment where it says"…nor shall any State…deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws." If a state has a law protecting one person from being murdered, it must provide the same protection to any other person. Does the phrase “any person” open the door to exceptions? No, exceptions open the door to extermination.
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That’s fine. We know what the 14th says. So, do you value the life a the four-year-old more than the life of the fetus?
 
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