The Prodigal Son - Mercy with little Repentance?

[naylordaisy]

Hello everyone,

Wiht last Sunday’s homily on the gospel, our congregation listened to a discourse that said that God is all merciful and that the prodigal son was immediately forgiven the moment he left the father’s home with his share of the inheritance.

Of course, we can try to understand the great mercy of God the Father but with this homily,
I am left thinking that repentance is not really that important.
It is enough to turn to God and being repentant seems not so important.

It is enough to say ‘I flunked’ and that God will forgive me.

Is there a danger here that we can believe that being truly sorry and repentant for our sins
becomes too lightweight?

It sounds as though we are saved already without needing to be that sorry.

Cheers
NEil

 

[1Lord1Faith]

It’s important to remember that we must forgive in order to be forgiven.

 

[Fauken]

Hello everyone,

Wiht last Sunday’s homily on the gospel, our congregation listened to a discourse that said that God is all merciful and that the prodigal son was immediately forgiven the moment he left the father’s home with his share of the inheritance.

Of course, we can try to understand the great mercy of God the Father but with this homily,
I am left thinking that repentance is not really that important.
It is enough to turn to God and being repentant seems not so important.

It is enough to say ‘I flunked’ and that God will forgive me.

Is there a danger here that we can believe that being truly sorry and repentant for our sins
becomes too lightweight?

It sounds as though we are saved already without needing to be that sorry.

Cheers
NEil

How does he not seem repentant to you? He came back to his father, not even sure if he would be allowed to work for a living. He had already been working with pigs–you could hardly get lower than that in Jewish society.

We don’t know what happened to him after the feast. But I think the point here is that the first step is to come back with a contrite heart, and that no one, no matter who they are or what they did, is unworthy or incapable of it. Everything else follows afterwards.

 

[Wesrock]

I’be heard this argument before about the parable of the Prodigal Son. Did he realize the error of his ways? What he did realize is that the world could not provide for him. Without his father, he was poor and destitute. His life was empty and hollow. His needs (and in this case I would like to apply this to spiritual needs) were not being met.

So what does he do? Well, he does NOT try to get by on his father’s name. “So-and-so is my father, so provide for me.” He also did not just write a letter home to his father, pointing to his sonship and asking for money. Both of these actions would be to have his cake and eat it, too. He would have been able to keep living in and of the world of sin, yet content because his father provided for him anyway.

No, what he does do is to literally turn his back on the world of sin and leave it. He goes back to his father. And he doesn’t even do so with pride or trust in his biological relationship. He goes back, humble and willing to simply be a worker on his father’s land, because he knows with his father that his needs will be met.

I think he did realize the error in his ways, if only because he realized that his ways bore no fruit and could not meet his needs (spiritual, at the least). But I’m not even sure it’s necessary to be intellectually aware of the objective immorality of it. He turned his back on sin, left the sin behind, and went to his father. He did not bring that world of sin with him. Does it matter if he had an intellectual epiphany that sin is objectively wrong so long as he realizes what he was doing before was empty and hollow? I don’t think so, so long as he humbly does the will of his father, even if only so that his spiritual needs will be met.

Keep in my, repentence is intended to mean turning your back on sin and turning towards God. It’s not just an intellectual realization.

 

[naylordaisy]

It’s important to remember that we must forgive in order to be forgiven.

This is true.
Yet to be forgiven, one needs to ask for it.
In the case of the prodigal son, returning to the father and getting down on his knees before his father, we can assume that he is seeking forgiveness. The father did not even require him to finish his apology.

But in life, there can be times when repenting and seeking forgiveness is superficial or not
understood because of the lack of contrition.

My concern is that Catholic teaching on confession is weakened if seeking forgiveness seems a trivial effort to do.

God Bless
Neil

 

[Wesrock]

This is true.
Yet to be forgiven, one needs to ask for it.
In the case of the prodigal son, returning to the father and getting down on his knees before his father, we can assume that he is seeking forgiveness. The father did not even require him to finish his apology.

But in life, there can be times when repenting and seeking forgiveness is superficial or not
understood because of the lack of contrition.

My concern is that Catholic teaching on confession is weakened if seeking forgiveness seems a trivial effort to do.

God Bless
Neil

The son did not simply come home for funds or his father’s mercy with the intent to head back out into the foreign land. He came home to stay and work with his father. He had resolved to leave that other world behind already, and what more, he did leave it. That isn’t always so easy. In turning his back on that foreign land, we should see him as turning his back on his sins.

I also don’t think the father cut off his confession, or tried to make him feel bad. He saw his son turning his back on sin. He heard his son’s sincerity, and he welcomed him back into his home as a son.

 

[1Lord1Faith]

This is true.
Yet to be forgiven, one needs to ask for it.
In the case of the prodigal son, returning to the father and getting down on his knees before his father, we can assume that he is seeking forgiveness. The father did not even require him to finish his apology.

But in life, there can be times when repenting and seeking forgiveness is superficial or not
understood because of the lack of contrition.

My concern is that Catholic teaching on confession is weakened if seeking forgiveness seems a trivial effort to do.

God Bless
Neil

Since the prodigal son showed no forgiveness to anyone in this parable, yet he received forgiveness, I would assume this parable only refers to one step in a relationship with God that requires more than just turning to Him.

 

[Polycarp1]

Forgiveness is more about the forgiver then it is about the person being forgiven. We are to forgive even when the person doesn’t ask for it or show any remorse.

 

[JB_Brother_4446]

The son did not simply come home for funds or his father’s mercy with the intent to head back out into the foreign land. He came home to stay and work with his father. He had resolved to leave that other world behind already, and what more, he did leave it. That isn’t always so easy. In turning his back on that foreign land, we should see him as turning his back on his sins.

I also don’t think the father cut off his confession, or tried to make him feel bad. He saw his son turning his back on sin. He heard his son’s sincerity, and he welcomed him back into his home as a son.

However we must not forget the father’s justice. When the son asked for the inheritance, the father said, “Alright, you want my inheritance? Take it and leave!” If we come back to God, He will welcome us, but if we choose to leave Him, He will show us the door.

 

[JB_Brother_4446]

I’be heard this argument before about the parable of the Prodigal Son. Did he realize the error of his ways? What he did realize is that the world could not provide for him. Without his father, he was poor and destitute. His life was empty and hollow. His needs (and in this case I would like to apply this to spiritual needs) were not being met.

So what does he do? Well, he does NOT try to get by on his father’s name. “So-and-so is my father, so provide for me.” He also did not just write a letter home to his father, pointing to his sonship and asking for money. Both of these actions would be to have his cake and eat it, too. He would have been able to keep living in and of the world of sin, yet content because his father provided for him anyway.

No, what he does do is to literally turn his back on the world of sin and leave it. He goes back to his father. And he doesn’t even do so with pride or trust in his biological relationship. He goes back, humble and willing to simply be a worker on his father’s land, because he knows with his father that his needs will be met.

I think he did realize the error in his ways, if only because he realized that his ways bore no fruit and could not meet his needs (spiritual, at the least). But I’m not even sure it’s necessary to be intellectually aware of the objective immorality of it. He turned his back on sin, left the sin behind, and went to his father. He did not bring that world of sin with him. Does it matter if he had an intellectual epiphany that sin is objectively wrong so long as he realizes what he was doing before was empty and hollow? I don’t think so, so long as he humbly does the will of his father, even if only so that his spiritual needs will be met.

Keep in my, repentence is intended to mean turning your back on sin and turning towards God. It’s not just an intellectual realization.

He only came back because he needed a meal, not because he was truly sorry.

 

[Wesrock]

He only came back because he needed a meal, not because he was truly sorry.

I’m not sure I agree given a deeper reading of the parable, but it seems beside the point.

What is clear is that the son’s needs were not being met. He turned away from the world of sin, leaving it behind him without any intent to return to it, and he went humbly to his father’s house.

If the son had an intent to simply get his forgiveness and money from his father and then run back out into the world, that would be unrepentant. That’s not what happened.

 

[MT1926]

Hello everyone,

Wiht last Sunday’s homily on the gospel, our congregation listened to a discourse that said that God is all merciful and that the prodigal son was immediately forgiven the moment he left the father’s home with his share of the inheritance.

I really like the story of the prodigal son. It has some great meaning to me, since my son has become a once saved always saved evangelical. Now I don’t believe there is an official church teaching on these verses, so this is what it means to me.

If you read it a few times you can see some deeper meaning into the story Jesus is telling us, and how it refutes the once saved always saved mind set. As you mentioned and like our Priest said the Father in the story is God the Father and we are his sons. I can readily agree that God the Father immediately forgave him the moment he left with the inheritance. However, forgiveness does not equal salvation. He still walked away. What if the great famine never arose in that country? He might have been able to continue living loosely and keep his back turned away from the Father. How would this forgiveness benefit him if he never returned to receive it. My son would say if this happened he was never saved to begin with. But how can that be true? Jesus makes the point that he was already a son of the Father and was therefor saved prior to walking away.

Of course, we can try to understand the great mercy of God the Father but with this homily,
I am left thinking that repentance is not really that important.
It is enough to turn to God and being repentant seems not so important.

It is enough to say ‘I flunked’ and that God will forgive me.

Is there a danger here that we can believe that being truly sorry and repentant for our sins
becomes too lightweight?l

Not sure about your question here. I read from the story that the son did repent. Not just once but twice. Remember this is God the Father, he hears our thoughts as well as our words. In verse 18 & 19 he thinks to himself the apology he will give to his Father, and then says it aloud in verse 21. Now verse 20 is an important verse. If you notice, after the son decided to come back (repentance) the Father ran out to meet him. Jesus doesn’t say the Father sent his servants into the far off country to find him and drag him back to salvation, the son had to repent and decide on his own to come back.

Verse 22 is a great verse in my opinion. When I read it, I think about purgatory. The son was living with pigs, just imagine how dirty and smelly he must have been. The Father doesn’t just have his servants prepare the feast and start the celebration. He could have, but imagine being the son covered in pig excrement and smelling something awful. Would you enjoy the feast in that state? I wouldn’t. So the loving Father has his servants “purge” him of his defilement and redress him in the best rob so he will be more comfortable at the feast and not have to constantly be reminded of what he did. That thought gives me so much more peace of mind than to convince myself that I am once saved always saved and am guaranteed to sit with God in eternity with the memory of unpurged sins on my soul.

Now Jesus finishes the story by speaking of the elder son. This part of the story is a bit confusing, because I always agreed with the elder son. I think what Jesus is getting at here is showing us that just because the elder brother followed the rules, his denial of the younger brother coming back shows his envy. Basically he is saying I didn’t do that therefor I deserve more and he deserves less. This tells us that the elder son was not aware of the grace he had from being at home with the Father. Jesus speaks of envy again in Matthew 20, the parable of the workers, where the ones that worked an hour got paid the same as the ones that worked all day.

Just my humble opinion

God Bless

 

[MT1926]

However we must not forget the father’s justice. When the son asked for the inheritance, the father said, “Alright, you want my inheritance? Take it and leave!” If we come back to God, He will welcome us, but if we choose to leave Him, He will show us the door.

I’m not seeing this in the reading? It makes is sound like if we question God he will boot us out the door, so we can learn our lesson on our own and eventually come back to him.

Verse 13 says:
13 Not many days later, the younger son gathered all he had and took his journey into a far country, and there he squandered his property in loose living.

I think Jesus makes it clear that the son left of his own free will.

I do agree that God will welcome us back.

God Bless

 

[JB_Brother_4446]

I’m not seeing this in the reading? It makes is sound like if we question God he will boot us out the door, so we can learn our lesson on our own and eventually come back to him.

Verse 13 says:
13 Not many days later, the younger son gathered all he had and took his journey into a far country, and there he squandered his property in loose living.

I think Jesus makes it clear that the son left of his own free will.

I do agree that God will welcome us back.

God Bless

And the father opened the door!

 

[JB_Brother_4446]

I’m not sure I agree given a deeper reading of the parable, but it seems beside the point.

What is clear is that the son’s needs were not being met. He turned away from the world of sin, leaving it behind him without any intent to return to it, and he went humbly to his father’s house.

If the son had an intent to simply get his forgiveness and money from his father and then run back out into the world, that would be unrepentant. That’s not what happened.

But notice he didn’t say “I’m sorry.” He said,“Hire me as one of your servants.”

 

[TimothyH]

The story of the prodigal son is a story of confession.

The prodigal son has a two part plan:

I will arise and go to my father, and I will say to him, “Father, I have sinned against heaven and before you; I am no longer worthy to be called your son; treat me as one of your hired servants.”’ (Luke 15:18-19)

The son’s plan is to 1) confess to the father and, 2) work as a slave of the father.

Notice that the father embraces the son but hears his confession. The father does nothing else until the boy confesses. It is only after the boy confesses that the father acts. The boy’s plan is to be a servant or slave. The father however, has no intention of letting the boy carry out part 2 of his plan. This is a metaphor for confession, and of restoration after confession.

The word repentance comes from the Greek word metanoia which means to change your mind or change your way of life. That is what is required - no more and no less. That is exactly what the boy did, changed his ways. He does not need to become a slave. Metanoia is all that is required.

-Tim-

 

[MT1926]

And the father opened the door!

I am not following you. Can you point me to which version of Luke 15 says the father opened the door? I’ve checked the following bibles:

Revised Standard Version Catholic Edition
New King James Version
Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition
21st Century King James Version
Good News Translation
Living Bible
New American Bible (Revised Edition)

Thanks

 

[JB_Brother_4446]

I am not following you. Can you point me to which version of Luke 15 says the father opened the door? I’ve checked the following bibles:

Revised Standard Version Catholic Edition
New King James Version
Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition
21st Century King James Version
Good News Translation
Living Bible
New American Bible (Revised Edition)

Thanks

Well the father certainly didn’t persuade him from leaving. In fact he showed him the door!

 

[Gorgias]

I think that, in the case of parables, it’s possible to over-think them. After all, they aren’t deep examinations of character, but rather, simple stories that illustrate a point. Since they’re Scriptural, there are multiple spiritual interpretations that can be drawn from them (i.e., how do they point to Christ? What do they tell us about how we should live our lives?) But, if we try to dive too deeply into the character, we risk missing the point.

That being said, however…

Well the father certainly didn’t persuade him from leaving. In fact he showed him the door!

No, he didn’t. The story simply states that the boy left home. Do we want to risk diving too deeply into the father’s psyche? Ok, then…

The boy comes to him and says, “Dad, give me my inheritance now.” In the cultural context in which Jesus tells the story, this is breathtaking – the boy demonstrates a complete and utter repudiation of everything that his father is and what he stands for. We have two choices: either we note that the father realizes that his son is leaving (and therefore, he has the chance to let him leave a pauper or let him leave with resources) or we’re left thinking the father is a complete push-over (“you want your 1/3 of the property? Sure… whatever you say, son…”).

That being said, the father already realizes that his son is leaving – and that he can’t really stop him.

What about the other question, though? Does the son repent, by asking forgiveness?

Well, strictly speaking, no. He realizes the extent of his sins… and he thinks that there’s no possibility of forgiveness. So, all he does is let his father know that he knows he’s messed up – and asks his father to let him rejoin the household, if even only in a reduced capacity. He comes back because he realizes there’s no better deal to be found than in his father’s household. He comes back because he’s learned that the grass isn’t greener on the sinful side of the fence.

Then he finds out that his father is more forgiving and merciful than he ever hoped.

If we want to interpret this in terms of Catholic theology, we see that the boy exhibits imperfect contrition – he simply doesn’t want to experience the pain that sin brings. That’s sufficient for God, and it was sufficient for the father in the parable.

 

[JB_Brother_4446]

I think that, in the case of parables, it’s possible to over-think them. After all, they aren’t deep examinations of character, but rather, simple stories that illustrate a point. Since they’re Scriptural, there are multiple spiritual interpretations that can be drawn from them (i.e., how do they point to Christ? What do they tell us about how we should live our lives?) But, if we try to dive too deeply into the character, we risk missing the point.

That being said, however…

No, he didn’t. The story simply states that the boy left home. Do we want to risk diving too deeply into the father’s psyche? Ok, then…

The boy comes to him and says, “Dad, give me my inheritance now.” In the cultural context in which Jesus tells the story, this is breathtaking – the boy demonstrates a complete and utter repudiation of everything that his father is and what he stands for. We have two choices: either we note that the father realizes that his son is leaving (and therefore, he has the chance to let him leave a pauper or let him leave with resources) or we’re left thinking the father is a complete push-over (“you want your 1/3 of the property? Sure… whatever you say, son…”).

That being said, the father already realizes that his son is leaving – and that he can’t really stop him.

What about the other question, though? Does the son repent, by asking forgiveness?

Well, strictly speaking, no. He realizes the extent of his sins… and he thinks that there’s no possibility of forgiveness. So, all he does is let his father know that he knows he’s messed up – and asks his father to let him rejoin the household, if even only in a reduced capacity. He comes back because he realizes there’s no better deal to be found than in his father’s household. He comes back because he’s learned that the grass isn’t greener on the sinful side of the fence.

Then he finds out that his father is more forgiving and merciful than he ever hoped.

If we want to interpret this in terms of Catholic theology, we see that the boy exhibits imperfect contrition – he simply doesn’t want to experience the pain that sin brings. That’s sufficient for God, and it was sufficient for the father in the parable.

Well the dad let him leave. “Alright, you wanna leave? Leave!”