The progression of society

[ricofall]

I have been going to some classes that my local Priest holds weekly. He said something that got me thinking. He told us that once thing like the pill, abortion, and other sins were allowed, there is no turning back. It is what he called the natural progression of society. In other words, we can no longer make birth control illegal, we can no longer make abortion illegal and so on. So I started looking into this and I believe he is correct in the matter. For example, since we already have the infrastructure to make abortions, then they would just go underground and become a ‘women’s right’ movement. Kind of like prohibition was. If he ban the pill, then women would get hormone drugs to help regulate their cycles that would be the same as a artificial birth control (ABC). Basically, the cat is out of the bag and not going back in. If a president, pro-life, attempted to overturn Roe Vs Wade, he/she would be hated, not just from pro-death (or choice), but others who truly believe that a women’s right to choose is more important that a babies right to life. Not only does a move like that mean the end of their career, laws could be made after that person leaves to strengthen the abortion movement.

I am starting to see a natural movement of turning towards self indulging. We all know that TV was conservative for years. Not anymore. They have consequence free sex, no worries of babies or STD’s. Marriage is thrown out the window. If marriage is shown, then they cheat on each other on a regular basis. You know that the FCC (I think that is the right agency) cannot change their stances and stay ‘As of 2012, every couple must be married who share a bed.’ Even the word ‘Family’ mean nothing anymore. I once watch ABC Family, thinking it was a real family channel, well it is not.

So if you had the power of the president (ie you were the president), what would you do? What could you really do to have a lasting effect?

 

[George_Stegmeir]

The only way that American society would change would not be through legislation and law enforcement. If the Church wanted true change about these matters in society, they should take a lesson from the “Gays”.
50 years ago, a gay man or woman “came out of the closet” at their peril. Homosexuality was anathma! When gay men were exposed or “found out”, they lost their jobs, were dishonorably discharged from the military, and shunned by former friends, neighbors and kin folk. The only places a gay man could settle with a reasonable amount of anonymity and privacy was large cities such as Chicago, New York, and San Francisco. These cities being so large, no one cared what the other guy was doing.
Since that time, there has been an organized public relations and political campaign on the part of the gay community to change social thought and feelings for acceptance of their lifestyle and sexual behavior.
To date the gay movement has been enormously successful in gaining social acceptance for their sexual abberation and lifestyle; and, the pro-life and chastity movements could learn from them.

 

[The_Reginator]

I recently heard someone suggest that the moral decay of western society is largely the fault of the Catholic Church.

We have people calling themselves Catholic who openly disagree with Church teaching. If a Catholic wants to get elected, then they are a politician first and a Catholic second (if even that). If all Catholics were well formed in their faith and were instructed in the seriousness of the Church’s moral teachings then it would be harder for ‘progressives’ to force their agendas down our throats.

Imagine if all Catholic politicians put their faith first in all decisions. What if all Catholics in the entertainment industry only produced and supported things that did not violate natural law and Catholic teaching?

Finally, imagine if I were to finally go to bed …

 

[nordskoven]

The false premise is “natural progression of society.” Real Feminism outlawed abortion along with the AMA. Feminism was co-opted by the likes of Gloria Steinem, brainwashed in Communist Russia right before starting MS Magazine; and Betty Freidan, Communist husband-beater. This ain’t the stuff of anti-abortionist Susan B. Anthony it’s Karl Marx in a pants suit. America didn’t fall, we were pushed.

If I were president I’d host the TV premier of the un-aired BBC expose on Kennedy’s assassination. I’d lobby to strip back all laws that fostered elitism and privilege; and all those laws not having Constitutional grounding; and all laws that overrode subsidiarity of lower layers of society. I’d put together all the Venona transcripts of KGB activity in the USA in a cogent form and post it on the internet. And I’d pray every morning for an hour on my knees like George Washington.

 

[Sherry_G]

I disgree about the theory explained in the OP’s question based on history. Study the ancient roman empire or the greek. Both of these societies were rife with the same horrendous sins we see today and their societies crumbled away due to tthis decay. I beleive that is what is happening to the once great United States of America. The process is midway or maybe a little more than that. We are heading for a very rude awakening and a wake up call, just as has occurred throughout history. Just think of the dark period of the Middle Ages and all the suffering throuoghout the world. We were blessed as a nation, similar to the nation of Israel, but our turning away from God to follow our own gods of money, lust and power have put us on a downward spiral that is picking up speed rapidly. Pray, fast and do penance.

 

[St_Francis]

I recently heard someone suggest that the moral decay of western society is largely the fault of the Catholic Church.

We have people calling themselves Catholic who openly disagree with Church teaching. If a Catholic wants to get elected, then they are a politician first and a Catholic second (if even that). If all Catholics were well formed in their faith and were instructed in the seriousness of the Church’s moral teachings then it would be harder for ‘progressives’ to force their agendas down our throats.

Imagine if all Catholic politicians put their faith first in all decisions. What if all Catholics in the entertainment industry only produced and supported things that did not violate natural law and Catholic teaching?

Finally, imagine if I were to finally go to bed …

You seem to be saying that because some Catholocs **went against ** the teachings of the Church and thus contributed to the decline of our society that the Church is responsible for the decline?

 

[ricofall]

Thought_Officer:

Just out of curiousity, if you had the power of the president, would you legislate that all couples sharing a bed ought to be married? You may have been just throwing it out there as an example. But if you had the power to enshrine that as a piece of legislation, would you?

No because it would not work, or even last. Instead, I would have do to something with a lasting affect. Take abortion for example, I would not ban abortion per se. I would give an unborn child personhood. Then I would let the legal system handle abortion cases.

 

[ricofall]

The only way that American society would change would not be through legislation and law enforcement. If the Church wanted true change about these matters in society, they should take a lesson from the “Gays”.
50 years ago, a gay man or woman “came out of the closet” at their peril. Homosexuality was anathma! When gay men were exposed or “found out”, they lost their jobs, were dishonorably discharged from the military, and shunned by former friends, neighbors and kin folk. The only places a gay man could settle with a reasonable amount of anonymity and privacy was large cities such as Chicago, New York, and San Francisco. These cities being so large, no one cared what the other guy was doing.
Since that time, there has been an organized public relations and political campaign on the part of the gay community to change social thought and feelings for acceptance of their lifestyle and sexual behavior.
To date the gay movement has been enormously successful in gaining social acceptance for their sexual abberation and lifestyle; and, the pro-life and chastity movements could learn from them.

The problem with that is lots of Catholics have families that we cannot just move. Where as the early gay lifestyle meant that you where single. It was easier for you to movie.

 

[ricofall]

The false premise is “natural progression of society.” Real Feminism outlawed abortion along with the AMA. Feminism was co-opted by the likes of Gloria Steinem, brainwashed in Communist Russia right before starting MS Magazine; and Betty Freidan, Communist husband-beater. This ain’t the stuff of anti-abortionist Susan B. Anthony it’s Karl Marx in a pants suit. America didn’t fall, we were pushed.

If I were president I’d host the TV premier of the un-aired BBC expose on Kennedy’s assassination. I’d lobby to strip back all laws that fostered elitism and privilege; and all those laws not having Constitutional grounding; and all laws that overrode subsidiarity of lower layers of society. I’d put together all the Venona transcripts of KGB activity in the USA in a cogent form and post it on the internet. And I’d pray every morning for an hour on my knees like George Washington.

Interesting view point. Can you provide more information or a link to some of those resources?

 

[kama3]

Basically, the cat is out of the bag and not going back in.

I’m positively surprised that you have found a priest who gets it. He must be a very smart guy. But it’s actually wose than he thinks: it’s not that you can’t outlaw abortion, contraceptives, etc., it’s that you can’t uninvent them. Every OB/GYN out there knows how to perform an abortion, and every chemical engineer knows how to synthesize contraceptives.

Similarly, every chemical engineer (or a half-competent amateur) knows how to synthesize illegal drugs. Which is precisely why the drug prohibition has been a complete and utter failure: there are too many people out there who know how to make them and enough people who want to use them. Sooner or later, the consumer and the producer shall meet.

So the actual issue is not that things like abortion, contraceptives, or illegal drugs exist, but that people want to use them. The individual morality is the key here, not (un)availability of some things.

However, the Catholic Church worldwide has failed completely and utterly regarding such issues. Probably, the core problem here is that unmarried clergy (deeply infested with homosexuals and pedophiles) has no understanding of practical issues related to family life, so it ends drawing completely unrealistic demands for their flock. Since the demands are unrealistic, the flock promptly ignore them. The result is that the clergy gets completely divorced from reality. And the bishops, instead of instructing their folk to behave morally, jumped on the legal prohibition bandwagon, naively believing that you can use criminal law to legislate morality.

A good example is abortion law in Poland. The Church-affiliated politicians passed a law prohibiting abortion back in 1993. Officially, the problem disappeared. However, strangely, the country did not register the expected increase in birth rates – i.e. the number of births in 1994 was lower than the combined number of births and abortions in 1992. (I’ll let you guess what happened.) In fact, today, almost-all-Catholic Poland with illegal abortion somehow manages to have lower birth numbers than the neighboring almost-all-atheist Czech Republic where abortion on demand is legal (the standard of living in both countries is virtually the same). Really, it’s difficult to imagine a more telling failure at implementing the Catholic moral teaching…

So, to summarize. The technological progress has been, and will be, creating more and more occasions for immoral behavior. If humanity has to avoid the catastrophe, the human morality must develop in line with technological progress. Teaching morality is the job of the Church. However, the progressing moral decay is evidence that the Church is failing in this role. The fact that the Church is interested in legislating the morality of the flock through a state law (i.e. thou shalt not vote for pro-choise politicians) proves that the Church is aware that it is failing in its primary mission and tries to compensate by other means. However, the Church has yet to recognize that the prohibition route is a dead end, and the return to its core mission is needed.

I’m not holding my breath however. The present situation is too convenient for many elements currently in power.

 

[kama3]

We have people calling themselves Catholic who openly disagree with Church teaching.

Nothing strange. There are areas where the Church teaching:

• contradicts established science (polygenism)
• is unrealistic for most people given the circumstances (contraception)
• conflicts with instinctive sense of morality (therapeutic abortion)

If 97% of the flock uses contraceptives, then it is the Church hierarchy that has the problem, not the flock. Because:

• if 97% ignores the teaching, then it is obvious that the teaching is either incorrect, or incorrectly communicated. The flock cannot be blamed for either of these.
• if the Church excommunicates the 97%, I doubt the remaing 3% will be able to financially support the existing hierarchy

Hence, the Church persist in a mixture of hypocrisy and obstinate denial of reality (like resorting to calling the 97% figure into question).

Truly, if God exists and is just, the judgement of these in black robes will be very harsh.

 

[The_Reginator]

Nothing strange. There are areas where the Church teaching:

• contradicts established science (polygenism)
• is unrealistic for most people given the circumstances (contraception)
• conflicts with instinctive sense of morality (therapeutic abortion)

If 97% of the flock uses contraceptives, then it is the Church hierarchy that has the problem, not the flock. Because:

• if 97% ignores the teaching, then it is obvious that the teaching is either incorrect, or incorrectly communicated. The flock cannot be blamed for either of these.
• if the Church excommunicates the 97%, I doubt the remaing 3% will be able to financially support the existing hierarchy

Hence, the Church persist in a mixture of hypocrisy and obstinate denial of reality (like resorting to calling the 97% figure into question).

Truly, if God exists and is just, the judgement of these in black robes will be very harsh.

The problem with the Church hierarchy is that they have not boldly taught divine truth in the last few decades.
Jesus taught the truth. He did not ‘change the truth’ to suit popular opinion. It matters on a whit whether or not 97% of the flock ignores the truth. It comes from God and cannot change. We must be taught, with boldness and clarity, the things that God demands of us for the good of our immortal souls.

Abortion? Therapeutic … would you kill your three year old because your own health is being jeprodised by the demands of taking care of him/her? How can killing be moral if you are killing a ‘who’ and not a ‘what’?
We need to learn obedience and humility. We cannot be telling God almighty what is moral and what isn’t.

God alone sees ‘the big picture’ – we see only a part, and we see it with our limited human understanding.

 

[edwest2]

I have been going to some classes that my local Priest holds weekly. He said something that got me thinking. He told us that once thing like the pill, abortion, and other sins were allowed, there is no turning back. It is what he called the natural progression of society. In other words, we can no longer make birth control illegal, we can no longer make abortion illegal and so on. So I started looking into this and I believe he is correct in the matter. For example, since we already have the infrastructure to make abortions, then they would just go underground and become a ‘women’s right’ movement. Kind of like prohibition was. If he ban the pill, then women would get hormone drugs to help regulate their cycles that would be the same as a artificial birth control (ABC). Basically, the cat is out of the bag and not going back in. If a president, pro-life, attempted to overturn Roe Vs Wade, he/she would be hated, not just from pro-death (or choice), but others who truly believe that a women’s right to choose is more important that a babies right to life. Not only does a move like that mean the end of their career, laws could be made after that person leaves to strengthen the abortion movement.

I am starting to see a natural movement of turning towards self indulging. We all know that TV was conservative for years. Not anymore. They have consequence free sex, no worries of babies or STD’s. Marriage is thrown out the window. If marriage is shown, then they cheat on each other on a regular basis. You know that the FCC (I think that is the right agency) cannot change their stances and stay ‘As of 2012, every couple must be married who share a bed.’ Even the word ‘Family’ mean nothing anymore. I once watch ABC Family, thinking it was a real family channel, well it is not.

So if you had the power of the president (ie you were the president), what would you do? What could you really do to have a lasting effect?

To answer your last question. I would simply tell Americans the truth.

Regarding the other things you heard.

A) Catholics and the Catholic Church have always been against abortion.

B)The Catholic Church has always been against artificial birth control. The fact that Catholics today use some form of ABC does not change Church teaching.

C) The media has gone from being 'a welcomed guest in our homes" during the 1950s and 1960s, to a mouthpiece for most anything that goes against clear Church teaching. It took 40 years of gradually showing a little, to a little more, to a little more. If we had gone from 1968 to Spartacus, Dexter, and Game of Thrones overnight, the outcry would have been immediate and decisive.

D) If I was President and I wanted to send examples of what represents current media culture in America today to a foreign country, what would I send them? A box of DVDs containing a copy of Porky’s, American Pie, the latest TV shows, including Family Guy, and performances by Chris Rock and Louis Black?

E) And what about the Roman Empire? The origin of that term “Roman Orgy” comes from that time period.

F) Finally, the Church has suffered many persecutions in the past, including calls for “Modernism” that tried to change some aspect of Church teaching. Vatican City is in Rome.

Finally, there will always be a remnant that is faithful to Church teaching. And regarding marriage and families, the building block of all societies, there are ways for Catholics who desire Sacramental Marriage to meet other Catholics who desire the same, such as Ave Maria Singles:

avemariasingles.com/about_Ave_Maria_Single_Catholics.cfm

God bless,
Ed

 

[kama3]

The problem with the Church hierarchy is that they have not boldly taught divine truth in the last few decades.

Indeed.

It comes from God and cannot change.

Where does the Gospel mention contraception? Oh wait, it doesn’t.

And strangely enough, therapeutic abortion is allowed (required even) under Jewish law, which supposedly comes from the same God. The Catholic Church, in contrast, advocates sacrificing the life of the woman for no benefit. Most people object to that, and with a good reason.

The Catholic hierarchy currently pays a lot of attention to matters which have very little, if any, scriptural support, (sexual and reproductive issues) while openly ignoring explicit biblical instructions on other matters. For example, no Catholic bishop today meets the criteria for the job as established in 1 Timothy 3:2-7.

 

[St_Francis]

I really think that the only solution for the problem is prayer. People seem to think that we need to do things when we know that seriously, we can’t really have much of an effect. The only way things are going to change is through God pouring His grace upon us in copious amounts.

I read some amazing conversion stories. Look at Mary Magdalene: here she was a rich woman but through committing sinful acts: bit there was a softness about her heart which enabled her to give up the “perks” of sin and go after a life of true love. That is not something we can cause on our own; it is a state in someone only God can effect. And even then, because God allows us the choice of turning towards Him or not, we can never think that everyone will become good. There will always be bad people.

 

[ricofall]

However, the Catholic Church worldwide has failed completely and utterly regarding such issues. Probably, the core problem here is that unmarried clergy (deeply infested with homosexuals and pedophiles) has no understanding of practical issues related to family life, so it ends drawing completely unrealistic demands for their flock. Since the demands are unrealistic, the flock promptly ignore them. The result is that the clergy gets completely divorced from reality. And the bishops, instead of instructing their folk to behave morally, jumped on the legal prohibition bandwagon, naively believing that you can use criminal law to legislate morality.

A good example is abortion law in Poland. The Church-affiliated politicians passed a law prohibiting abortion back in 1993. Officially, the problem disappeared. However, strangely, the country did not register the expected increase in birth rates – i.e. the number of births in 1994 was lower than the combined number of births and abortions in 1992. (I’ll let you guess what happened.) In fact, today, almost-all-Catholic Poland with illegal abortion somehow manages to have lower birth numbers than the neighboring almost-all-atheist Czech Republic where abortion on demand is legal (the standard of living in both countries is virtually the same). Really, it’s difficult to imagine a more telling failure at implementing the Catholic moral teaching…

While I would agree with some of your statement, I cannot with this. In the first paragraph, what you say is false. Because a person is unmarried, it does not mean they have deep homosexual or pedophile intents. Any large organization has corruption in it. Take for example public schools. Teachers can get married but we still have teachers who have sex with minors and worst. Just recently (link) a teacher was arrest for such an act of pedophilia. A second teacher from the same school was arrested as well a few weeks later. Dig deeper and you will see that the teacher had complaints before and the school officials ignored them. Yet, I do not see a call to change state policy on how they protect their teachers. As far as clergy no getting what life is about is absurd. With that logic, then you cannot comment on clergy life because you do not know what their life is about.

In regards to your second paragraph, I would like to see where that information is from. I was unable to find it.

• contradicts established science (polygenism)

How so?

• is unrealistic for most people given the circumstances (contraception)

Why, my wife and I practice NFP. It is really not that hard.

• conflicts with instinctive sense of morality (therapeutic abortion)

Never heard it called therapeutic abortion. May I assume you are talking about when a medial procedure has a double affect? Such as a tubal pregnancy, the teaching is that you can remove the tube to save the life of the mother. However, you cannot just abort the baby directly. How is that in conflict with morality.

If 97% of the flock uses contraceptives, then it is the Church hierarchy that has the problem, not the flock. Because:

I got a better stat. 100% of the flock are sinners. Just because we are prone to sin, does not mean the Church should approve it. Plus, where did you get that stat from? I could not find an official poll done.

• if 97% ignores the teaching, then it is obvious that the teaching is either incorrect, or incorrectly communicated. The flock cannot be blamed for either of these.

You are correct for this. The do believe that the Church has not done a very good job in teaching people. However, I not always been a good student either. While I can put fault at the Church, I also have to place the fault on myself.

• if the Church excommunicates the 97%, I doubt the remaing 3% will be able to financially support the existing hierarchy

excommunicating only used if the flock is in danger of false teaching or a grave moral sin. For example, if I held a class and taught that the Church allows abortions, then I would be excommunicated and rightly so. However if a couple decided to use artificial birth control for the sole reason of preventing pregnancy and some how the priest found out. They would not be excommunicated. At best, the priest would ask them to go to confession.

Hence, the Church persist in a mixture of hypocrisy and obstinate denial of reality (like resorting to calling the 97% figure into question).

Again with that figure, please state where that comes from. By the way, congratulations in finding out that the Church is made up of sinners. Can you please point me to a perfect organization? How about a perfect person? However I can point you to an organization that holds the full truth about God, Jesus, and their teachings as we know them so far.

With all charity I answered your questions and looking forward to a response. Oh, and sorry for any typos I may have had.

Truly, if God exists and is just, the judgement of these in black robes will be very harsh.

 

[The_Reginator]

Where does the Gospel mention contraception? Oh wait, it doesn’t.
Where does it say that All of God’s teaching is in the bible? Did you dream that up by yourself, or have others been misinforming you?
And strangely enough, therapeutic abortion is allowed (required even) under Jewish law, which supposedly comes from the same God. Unfortunately the Jews did not recognize their God even when is was walking among them. We do not follow Jewish Law we follow the Church divinely established by God Himself. The Catholic Church, in contrast, advocates sacrificing the life of the woman for no benefit. Most people object to that, and with a good reason. You know darn well ('scuze the language) that the Catholic Church advocates no such thing. Every abortion involves killing. Without exception. The Church recognizes the fact that each human life is precious. Just because an innocent human being is not yet out of the womb in no way makes him/her inferior to any other human.

The Catholic hierarchy currently pays a lot of attention to matters which have very little, if any, scriptural support, (sexual and reproductive issues) while openly ignoring explicit biblical instructions on other matters. For example, no Catholic bishop today meets the criteria for the job as established in 1 Timothy 3:2-7. Where’s your proof for that hogwash? Sure Bishops sin. Who doesn’t? Certainly they are called to a higher ideal. But not all Bishops have fallen as you like to insinuate.
What’s with this ‘scriptural support’ business again? The Catholic hierarchy must pay a lot of attention to anything in this world that can endanger our immortal souls. It does not have to be In the bible, it just cannot be Against the bible.

 

[Abu]

kama3 #15
Where does the Gospel mention contraception? Oh wait, it doesn’t.

Sola Scriptura is not part of the inspired Word of God, butChrist’s Church is.

The Catholic hierarchy currently pays a lot of attention to matters which have very little, if any, scriptural support, (sexual and reproductive issues)

How naïve, or perverse, that this poster should choose to fantasise that because contraception is not condemned in a Gospel that the Son of God did not clearly give His Church His authority to bind and loose on all matters of morals!
It has been so condemned from the earliest days and shows the blissful ignorance displayed in not knowing of the condemnation of contraception in God’s killing of Onan [Gen. 38: 9-10].

The Catholic Church gave us, and defined, the writings that form the inspired Word of God.

 

[Richard320]

I have been going to some classes that my local Priest holds weekly. He said something that got me thinking. He told us that once thing like the pill, abortion, and other sins were allowed, there is no turning back. It is what he called the natural progression of society. In other words, we can no longer make birth control illegal, we can no longer make abortion illegal and so on.

I’ve been thinking about this for a day or so, and your priest is not entirely right. Once the cat is out of the bag, you can’t put it back, right? Wrong.

It that has happened with some societies. Roman Empire. The got all depraved and disappeared. England got pretty bawdy, and then came the Victorian Age. Pre-war Germany got pretty wild, too. The Nazis cleaned them up. Iran used to be fairly Western. Then came the Ayatollah, back from exile in France. He put the brakes on a lot of immorality.

It may not be peaceful, but a society can swing back the other way.

 

[St_Francis]

However, the Catholic Church worldwide has failed completely and utterly regarding such issues. Probably, the core problem here is that unmarried clergy (deeply infested with homosexuals and pedophiles)

There is no evidence that the Church is “deeply infested with homosexuals and pedphiles,” and are you saying there is something wrong with homosexuals?

has no understanding of practical issues related to family life, so it ends drawing completely unrealistic demands for their flock. Since the demands are unrealistic, the flock promptly ignore them.

This is like a transition I have been making, as one baptized but not raised Catholic returning to the Faith. From a material standpoint, what you say seems correct. But inclusing the spiritual adds a whole other reality.*

Look at it this way: Jess has a really bad day at work, all she wants to do is go home and have a nice cup of tea and relax by herself. She is yearning for that; it’s the only thing that keeps her going through this terrible day.

But when she gets home, she finds her best friend on the steps waiting for her. Her bff has just heard somee really terrible news like her husband died and is completely distraught. What does Jess do? She wouldn’t say, sorry I have other plans, you need to go away, or Hey, i have problems too, does she?*

No, her problems are forgotten as she takes care of and comforts her friend, right? She allows her love for her friend to override her feelings for her own comfort.

It is the same way in marriage. People seem to think they have some sort of right to sexual activity, but this is not the case. Suppose a husband is in a car wreck and is paralyzed. Should the wife just go out and take a lover, violating her vows of fidelity? Or should she set her own little problems aside because someone she loves has bigger problems? Of what does *true *love consist?

In the same way, doctors may tell a wife that her life would be imperiled by a pregnancy: should her husband put his own needs above hers? Or should he set aside his own minor problem because of his *true *love for her?

Good priests see something we do not. They see the fuller meaning of the marital embrace, a meaning all too many of us miss because we are caught up in the material world and forgetful of the spiritual world. We miss the whole point of the great gift of potentially participating with God in the act of creating a new human being.

And sadly in our forgetfulness, we turn this great gift from God into a tawdry physical release.

The result is that the clergy gets completely divorced from reality.

As you can see, I disagree with you about who has lost touch with reality…

And the bishops, instead of instructing their folk to behave morally, jumped on the legal prohibition bandwagon, naively believing that you can use criminal law to legislate morality.

I don’t know what’s going on in Poland but here in the US, the bishops are not fighting for legal prohibitions against adultery, fornication, use of birth control. The one thing bishops are fighting against is a prohibition against abortion, which is the taking of an innocent human life. And in the US, we used to have people who fought against legalized slavery and we now consider those people as heroes. Isn’t killing babies in the womb even worse than slavery?*
*

A good example is abortion law in Poland. The Church-affiliated politicians passed a law prohibiting abortion back in 1993. Officially, the problem disappeared. However, strangely, the country did not register the expected increase in birth rates – i.e. the number of births in 1994 was lower than the combined number of births and abortions in 1992. (I’ll let you guess what happened.) In fact, today, almost-all-Catholic Poland with illegal abortion somehow manages to have lower birth numbers than the neighboring almost-all-atheist Czech Republic where abortion on demand is legal (the standard of living in both countries is virtually the same). Really, it’s difficult to imagine a more telling failure at implementing the Catholic moral teaching…

You show nothing here, and you showed nothing elsewhere. What evidence do you have that the law against abortion has failed instead of causing people to consider the potential results of their actions and decide to abstain from sexual activity when they are not ready to have a child?*

Before Poland outlawed abortion, the birth rate most likely included some babies who were unexpected but not killed by abortion. After abortion was outlawed, women may have become more careful and fewer became pregnant to begin with.*

And the interesting thing is that in both Poland and the Czech Republic, birth rates continued to go down after 1991, despite the fact that there was no change in the law in the CzR, and abortion rates declined in the CzR after the Polish law changed.*