The Proof that the Catholic Church did Not Sell Indulgences

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It really is all about the definition of “church” as something perfect that God established vs “church” as those within it.

Peace!!!
 
adf417 said:
It really is all about the definition of “church” as something perfect that God established vs “church” as those within it.
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Yes. But it is also a consistent attempt to deny past errors of the Church through a variant of the “no true Scotsman” fallacy. If something bad was done by the Church, it wasn’t REALLY the Church, it was individuals. But when an official of the Church does something good - that is credited to the Church.

The Church has made lots of mistakes over the centuries - of course it has. The Church has admitted that and apologized for many of the mistakes. It does the Church no good to pretend otherwise.
 
TMC said:
Yes. But it is also a consistent attempt to deny past errors of the Church through a variant of the “no true Scotsman” fallacy.
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Not really. Its an attempt to show two different entities and definitions of “church”. The “ no true Scotsman” fallacy assumes one entity with two definitions or views. If you fail to see this then you make my point for me.

Peace!!!
 
Of Course - It’s sometimes essential to speak of Sins and Sinners just as Jesus does…

E.G. Sodom and Gomorrah, the Israelites… Etc…
 
I understand the argument that the church can wash its hands of sins by claiming administrative distance from the sinner but that also works the other way.

This is one big criticism I have with the ascendant secular education system and what I see as the purposeful attempt to dirty the church through selected history in conjunction with partizan categorization.

Some of us have had bad experiences with this tactic and automatically wish to oppose what might appear to be such attempts.

Just a comment on some of the different angles people might be approaching these topics.
 
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adf417 said:
It really is all about the definition of “church” as something perfect that God established vs “church” as those within it.

Peace!!!
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To pick up on the thread you started with your comment, we have to understand what makes the Church “perfect.” The individual Christian is not “perfect” in the sense of being righteous or blameless by his works. The individual Christian is “perfect” in this sense through faith because Christ died for his/her sin and by atoning for that sin, his righteousness is credited to their account. The righteousness the Christian has is Christ’s righteousness obtained by grace through faith. The perfection, spotlessness, purity of the Church, etc., is obtained on the same basis, not by virtue of her being sinless, but on account of the righteousness of Christ and his death on the cross for her and obtained by grace through faith.
 
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Hodos said:
The perfection, spotlessness, purity of the Church, etc., is obtained on the same basis, not by virtue of her being sinless, but on account of the righteousness of Christ and his death on the cross for her and obtained by grace through faith.
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:+1:t3:
and would you agree this perfection, spotlessness, and purity must be able to be seen and either accepted or rejected by all?

Peace!!!
 
adf417 said:
and would you agree this perfection, spotlessness, and purity must be able to be seen and either accepted or rejected by all?
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Yeah, this perfection, spotlessness, and purity was seen on Good Friday when Christ died on the cross. Even the Roman soldier proclaimed that Christ was the son of God.
 
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