The Prophet Like Moses

[Ben_Masada]

The Prophet Like Moses

So, you have found the prophet like Moses? It’s all a matter of adopting an opinion that suits best. Natan of Gaza proclaimed Sabbatai Tzevi as the Messiah, and thousands adopted his opinion. Rabbi Akivah proclaimed BarKorva the Messiah and even the death of a martyr wouldn’t make him retract. And many today still adopt the late Reb Menachem Schneerson as Messiah.

The bottom line is that we have all the right in the world to choose the opinion we please, as long as we feel comfortable spiritually. I hate to rain on your parade, but all have tried to fit their Messiah according to the Scriptures and have failed. Do you know why? Because the common basis of them all is assumption including yours.

Then, you claim that Moses is talking about the Messiah in Deuteronomy 18:18,19. Even if Moses was talking about the Messiah, the Messiah wouldn’t be like Moses because Moses was not the Messiah neither the son of Yahweh.

Perhaps he would be according to the Messianic character of Moses? The main characteristic of Messianic expression is the return of Israel from the four corners of the earth, and Yeshua failed. You see, Moses did bring Israel from the Diaspora back home. With Yeshua Israel was at home and got expelled to the four corners of the earth. Ironic, isn’t it? (Isa. 11:12)

How about being a deliverer? The records are down for all to see that Moses did deliver a nation from another. Yeshua couldn’t even deliver himself from the hands of the Romans. Not for lack of trying though, since he did run away to his hiding place in the Gethsemane when he sensed arrest.

Okay, a Mediator then? Regarding a Mediator, Moses was indeed a good one at that between Yahweh and Israel. But between the rest of Mankind and Yahweh, that’s Israel, not Yeshua. Here there is no place for individual mediation. For that reason Israel was made a Priestly nation.

Yes folks, there is indeed a big difference between Yeshua and Moses. At the time of Moses, the People was led to the Promised Land. At the time of Yeshua, the People was expelled from the Promised Land.

Just one more thing about the Prophet like Moses. If he had been Yeshua, Christians would be in big trouble because they follow Paul and not Yeshua. Yeshua confirmed the Law to the letter according to Matthew 5:17-19, and Paul rather preached against it, according to Acts 21:21.

Ben

 

[Eucharisted]

Your Pauline fallacy makes your whole argument invalid. Good job.

 

[John7]

As for Post #1
(between the lines)

Thine habitation is in the midst of deceit
through deceit they refuse to know me
saith the LORD (Jeremiah 9.6)

figures

inner

 

[cephas161619]

The Prophet Like Moses

So, you have found the prophet like Moses? It’s all a matter of adopting an opinion that suits best. Natan of Gaza proclaimed Sabbatai Tzevi as the Messiah, and thousands adopted his opinion. Rabbi Akivah proclaimed BarKorva the Messiah and even the death of a martyr wouldn’t make him retract. And many today still adopt the late Reb Menachem Schneerson as Messiah.

The bottom line is that we have all the right in the world to choose the opinion we please, as long as we feel comfortable spiritually. I hate to rain on your parade, but all have tried to fit their Messiah according to the Scriptures and have failed. Do you know why? Because the common basis of them all is assumption including yours.

Then, you claim that Moses is talking about the Messiah in Deuteronomy 18:18,19. Even if Moses was talking about the Messiah, the Messiah wouldn’t be like Moses because Moses was not the Messiah neither the son of Yahweh.

Perhaps he would be according to the Messianic character of Moses? The main characteristic of Messianic expression is the return of Israel from the four corners of the earth, and Yeshua failed. You see, Moses did bring Israel from the Diaspora back home. With Yeshua Israel was at home and got expelled to the four corners of the earth. Ironic, isn’t it? (Isa. 11:12)

How about being a deliverer? The records are down for all to see that Moses did deliver a nation from another. Yeshua couldn’t even deliver himself from the hands of the Romans. Not for lack of trying though, since he did run away to his hiding place in the Gethsemane when he sensed arrest.

Okay, a Mediator then? Regarding a Mediator, Moses was indeed a good one at that between Yahweh and Israel. But between the rest of Mankind and Yahweh, that’s Israel, not Yeshua. Here there is no place for individual mediation. For that reason Israel was made a Priestly nation.

Yes folks, there is indeed a big difference between Yeshua and Moses. At the time of Moses, the People was led to the Promised Land. At the time of Yeshua, the People was expelled from the Promised Land.

Just one more thing about the Prophet like Moses. If he had been Yeshua, Christians would be in big trouble because they follow Paul and not Yeshua. Yeshua confirmed the Law to the letter according to Matthew 5:17-19, and Paul rather preached against it, according to Acts 21:21.

Ben

What do you claim is our assumption? It seems you throw it out there that we have made an assumption, and then assume we know what you mean by it without referencing anything in particular.

As to the prophet like Moses:

“Like Moses” does not mean exactly the same as Moses. He is similar, but not in all things.

What set Moses apart as a prophet is that he spoke with the Lord ‘face to face’, as a man speaks to his friend, so he spoke with God (see Ex 33:11). A prophet does not simply tell of events of the future but reveals the face of God, and in so doing shows us the path we have to take. A few verses later in Exodus, God tells him that he cannot see his face, but that he shall see his back.

What Moses the Prophet saw only partially, the new Moses, Jesus fully realizes: he lives before the face of God: No one has ever seen God; it is the only Son, who is nearest the Father’s heart who has made him known. (Jn 1:18). Jesus’ teaching originates not from human learning but from ‘face-to-face’ dialogue with the Father.

I could quibble about the other points you make, but I think that the key to understanding is actually found in your last complaint. Paul speaks of the new covenant, no longer under the law, but in grace. By the fact that we find our salvation in Christ and trust in his grace and mercy, we should not cast ourselves onto the law, for to do so would be to mistrust the grace of God and trust in our own perfections. Paul acknowledges that no one has been able to be perfect under the law, and so God sent us a new mediator, Jesus Christ. Now, the Kingdom he brings is not an earthly kingdom, and so also his deliverance is not an earthly deliverance. Jesus fulfilled the Law and the Prophets and gives us a new covenant, the covenant of his own blood. He is the Lamb of God, as John the Baptist proclaims. As the people sacrificed a lamb on their exodus from Egypt, so he offers himself to the Father and begins our exodus from sin into his kingdom. No longer is this kingdom tied to a physical piece of earth, but it is for all people.

Forgive me for not being able to better answer. I hope you are able to continue to search and to hear the voice of the Lord as he leads you. I have to acknowledge my indebtedness to Benedict XVI’s Jesus of Nazareth for some of his exposition on how Jesus is the new Moses. He also explains other ways that Jesus fulfills the Law and the Prophets. I highly recommend it if you’d like a fuller explanation.

Shalom.

 

[famdigy]

“And the Lord said onto me, they have well spoken that which they have spoken, I will raise them up a prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.” (Deuteronomy 18:17-18)

Christians believe Jesus to be God, God does not take commands from othes, He is the commander not the commanded. Yet in Deuteronomy 18:17-18, God says the prophet who is like unto Moses shall speak unto the people all that he is commanded.

If Jesus is both God and the prophet like unto Moses, then who’s words are being placed in his mouth and who is commanding him?

 

[cephas161619]

“And the Lord said onto me, they have well spoken that which they have spoken, I will raise them up a prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.” (Deuteronomy 18:17-18)

Christians believe Jesus to be God, God does not take commands from othes, He is the commander not the commanded. Yet in Deuteronomy 18:17-18, God says the prophet who is like unto Moses shall speak unto the people all that he is commanded.

If Jesus is both God and the prophet like unto Moses, then who’s words are being placed in his mouth and who is commanding him?

Jesus tells us more than once that he has spoken what he has received from his Father, that he has revealed all that the Father has given him to reveal, that his food, his sustenance is to do not his own will but the will of his Father, for this he came into the world, and for this he was born. At the same time, he reveals to us that he and the Father are one. They are one God, but two distinct Persons, who together with the Holy Spirit, are forever and inseparably Trinity, yet remain one God. But I digress. The point is he is giving us from the bosom of the Father, from the heart of God himself. Now God the Father does not command God the Son like a master his slave, but like a Father who is Love he gives him and the Son in perfect love for his Father fulfills the will of the Father. The word ‘command’ is very misleading here. Two persons who are in love want to please the other, each wants to do what the other wills. So it is within the most Holy Trinity.

Blessed be God forever.

 

[famdigy]

Jesus tells us more than once that he has spoken what he has received from his Father, that he has revealed all that the Father has given him to reveal, that his food, his sustenance is to do not his own will but the will of his Father, for this he came into the world, and for this he was born. At the same time, he reveals to us that he and the Father are one. They are one God, but two distinct Persons, who together with the Holy Spirit, are forever and inseparably Trinity, yet remain one God. But I digress. The point is he is giving us from the bosom of the Father, from the heart of God himself. Now God the Father does not command God the Son like a master his slave, but like a Father who is Love he gives him and the Son in perfect love for his Father fulfills the will of the Father. The word ‘command’ is very misleading here. Two persons who are in love want to please the other, each wants to do what the other wills. So it is within the most Holy Trinity.

Blessed be God forever.

Thank you Cephas, but how do you distinguish between the father and the son, when you believe them to be One?

 

[cephas161619]

Thank you Cephas, but how do you distinguish between the father and the son, when you believe them to be One?

A very good question. and which we admit that we do not fully understand. God in his infinite wisdom has revealed himself to us little by little, but our minds are not capable of fully comprehending the infinite. This by no means is to say that we can’t know anything about him, just not everything.

Now, when we say they are one, we mean they are One is substance, inseparable, and yet each Person is distinct and fully God. Here is a longer explanation that may help: catholic.com/library/God_in_Three_Persons.asp

Pax.

 

[Ben_Masada]

“And the Lord said onto me, they have well spoken that which they have spoken, I will raise them up a prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.” (Deuteronomy 18:17-18)

Christians believe Jesus to be God, God does not take commands from othes, He is the commander not the commanded. Yet in Deuteronomy 18:17-18, God says the prophet who is like unto Moses shall speak unto the people all that he is commanded.

If Jesus is both God and the prophet like unto Moses, then who’s words are being placed in his mouth and who is commanding him?

Way to go Famdigy! I praise your perception. Now, allow me to tell you that the Prophet-like Moses was Joshua, whom Moses needed to build his credibility to take over his functions.

 

[Ben_Masada]

What do you claim is our assumption? It seems you throw it out there that we have made an assumption, and then assume we know what you mean by it without referencing anything in particular.

Yes, you are right. I did miss to mention who is the Prophet-like Moses. Good perception this of yours. So, the Prophet-like Mose is Joshuah, whom Moses needed to build his credibility before the nation, so that the transition of power should be effected smoothly.

As to the prophet like Moses:

“Like Moses” does not mean exactly the same as Moses. He is similar, but not in all things.

And there was no one better than Joshua to qualify.

What set Moses apart as a prophet is that he spoke with the Lord ‘face to face’, as a man speaks to his friend, so he spoke with God (see Ex 33:11). A prophet does not simply tell of events of the future but reveals the face of God, and in so doing shows us the path we have to take. A few verses later in Exodus, God tells him that he cannot see his face, but that he shall see his back.

The expression “face to face” is only to enhance the importance of the man Moses before the People. No one could or can speak with God face to face because God has no face. How could Moses speak with God face to face if he was not allowed the request to see His face? And that request of Moses was made in a vision. By the face of God it meant to know the future as God sees the present. Moses was denied. But he was allowed to see God’s back which means to understand God’s creation which was part of man’s past.

What Moses the Prophet saw only partially, the new Moses, Jesus fully realizes: he lives before the face of God: No one has ever seen God; it is the only Son, who is nearest the Father’s heart who has made him known. (Jn 1:18). Jesus’ teaching originates not from human learning but from ‘face-to-face’ dialogue with the Father.

The only reference to the son of God in the Scriptures that Jesus used to handle is in Exodus 4:22,23. "Israel is My Son…"

I could quibble about the other points you make, but I think that the key to understanding is actually found in your last complaint. Paul speaks of the new covenant, no longer under the law, but in grace. By the fact that we find our salvation in Christ and trust in his grace and mercy, we should not cast ourselves onto the law, for to do so would be to mistrust the grace of God and trust in our own perfections.

God’s Law was give by grace. This world would be catastrophic if we didn’t have God’s Law. So, His Law and grace are synonymous.

Paul acknowledges that no one has been able to be perfect under the law, and so God sent us a new mediator, Jesus Christ.

Perfection is not the purpose of the Law, but to live free of trouble.

Now, the Kingdom he brings is not an earthly kingdom, and so also his deliverance is not an earthly deliverance.

**The Kingdom of God mentioned by Jesus was esoteric, I mean, within everyone of us, and up to us to develop it. **

Jesus fulfilled the Law and the Prophets and gives us a new covenant, the covenant of his own blood. He is the Lamb of God, as John the Baptist proclaims.

**But he did not abolish the Law. He rather warned us all to observe it down to the letter, and to teach it without any change. (Mat. 5:19) **

As the people sacrificed a lamb on their exodus from Egypt, so he offers himself to the Father and begins our exodus from sin into his kingdom. No longer is this kingdom tied to a physical piece of earth, but it is for all people.

As I said above, the Kingdom preached by Jesus was a state of mind.
And mind you that Jesus did not offer himself to be sacrificed. He rather prayed three times not to walk the via dolorosa. Review his suffering up there in the Gethsemane. In fact, he said that it was NOT his will to die on the cross.

Forgive me for not being able to better answer. I hope you are able to continue to search and to hear the voice of the Lord as he leads you. I have to acknowledge my indebtedness to Benedict XVI’s Jesus of Nazareth for some of his exposition on how Jesus is the new Moses. He also explains other ways that Jesus fulfills the Law and the Prophets. I highly recommend it if you’d like a fuller explanation.

Sorry, but you are talking about Replacement Theology.