The Prosperity Gospel

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walkwithme

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What does the catholic church think about the prosperity gospel that is so often preached in charismatic megachurches today?
 
walkwithme said:
What does the catholic church think about the prosperity gospel that is so often preached in charismatic megachurches today?
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What do you mean by “the catholic church”? Since I’m belong to the Roman Catholic Church I will answer that there is no official teaching on this of which I am aware. Typically the RCC does not have an opinion on every matter that confronts us and usually only defines something if it is called into question. I am sure you can find opinions from officials of the Church (Deacons, Priests, Bishops, Cardinals) but they are merely the opinions of individuals and not from the Church Universal. IMO, the prosperity gospel has no basis either in the Bible or in the Traditions handed down from the Apostles.

EDIT:
Sorry, I thought this was in the “Non Catholic Religons” category. Now I wonder why it was posted in the Eastern Catholic forum?
 
I’ve noticed something two things holy prosperity preachers.
  1. Their churches are NEVER found in the poorer areas of town, but are invariably mega-churches in rich white suburbs. Could there be some sort of auricular puritis going on?
  2. Invariably these preachers proclaim that THEIR wallets are the fields you’re supposed to sow your dollars into. They NEVER say, “Sow your money to the poor and you will have treasure in heaven,” as Jesus did.
 
Grace and Peace,

Prosperity Gospel Theology is the inevitable caricature-conclusion of the Social Gospel (i.e. Liberation) Theology which was born out of Latin American Roman Catholic movements.

Personally, I think there are simply one more completely misunderstood distortion of the Gospel like many others but their underpinnings with Liberation Theology is more concerning to me as it grows.
 
chrisb said:
Grace and Peace,

Prosperity Gospel Theology is the inevitable caricature-conclusion of the Social Gospel (i.e. Liberation) Theology which was born out of Latin American Roman Catholic movements.

Personally, I think there are simply one more completely misunderstood distortion of the Gospel like many others but their underpinnings with Liberation Theology is more concerning to me as it grows.
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Hi-
This is interesting to me, could you expound on it? Aren’t the two at the opposite extremes of each other? I only have a passing understanding of the histories of both systems - do they share any kind of common root?

Thanks
 
Without over-generalizing, I’d say that most of the prosperity preachers are nothing but hypocritical conmen out to make an easy buck, and that people these days are so lost spiritually that they fall into their traps. As the good Lord said, when the blind lead the blind, they shall both fall in a ditch.
 
let me start by saying that i think the health and wealth “doctrines” are pure heresy. however i needed to address these 2 statements.
bpbasilphx said:
  1. Their churches are NEVER found in the poorer areas of town, but are invariably mega-churches in rich white suburbs. Could there be some sort of auricular puritis going on?
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you are wrong here. they are usually found in large urban settings or poor rural settings. RARELY are they found in the suburbs. most of them are in the downtown settings of larger cities where the population is overwhelmingly minority or poor. they are large churches because they draw folks from the city and people drive in from the suburbs because the preaching is what they want to hear. basically they preach two things: God wants you to be wealthy (appeals to the poor of the church), and, if you are wealthy already, God wants you to remain wealthy (appeals to the affluent). these churches tend to be very diverse racially which is a good thing in my opinion… even though they teach heresy. i just needed to point out that your generalization is way off on this one.
bpbasilphx said:
  1. Invariably these preachers proclaim that THEIR wallets are the fields you’re supposed to sow your dollars into. They NEVER say, “Sow your money to the poor and you will have treasure in heaven,” as Jesus did.
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actually, the largest church in the country (and pastored by a good guy… although i believe he is a heretic he is a good guy it seems… and his church is pretty above the board on their finances… of course he makes a boatload of money but they are very up front about that and it fits into the theology) is joel olsteen’s church. they do a TON of stuff for the poor in the city. his father founded the church and was known nation wide as standing firmly with the civil rights movement (not an easy stand for a white, southern preacher to take). that church does some amazing work with the poor in their city. could they do more? of course, especially seeing what they spend on media and staff salaries.

i would agree that many of the “health and wealth” folks are crooks. rod (or ron?) parsons in columbus, ohio though is another one of those guys who seems genuine (i have actually met his son a few times) and his church is extremely open about their finances and accountable to an outside organization. he also does alot with the poor of the city.

again, i think this teaching is heresy and that many of these teachers are charlatans, but your statements are waaaaayyyyy too sweeping.
 
The problem with the “health, wealth, and prosperity gospel” is that it is very man-centered as opposed to God-centered. Instead of God forming man into His own image, it is an attempt to form God into man’s image.

Jesus never preached this type of Gospel. Jesus was all about doing the Will of the Father. And then He said “Follow Me”. He asked us to take up his Cross, He did not promise wealth or prosperity. Instead He said that if we wanted to follow Him, we should be willing to leave everything behind.

These people have forgotton all about the blood shed by the Martyrs, the dangers and persecution of the Early Church, the death of all the Apostles except John by martyrdom as they struggled to spread the Gospel. There is no sense of history. It’s just religious-coated materialism. A sign of our times.
 
It is written that if you do what Christ has taught you, that you may ask the Father for anything. This is a clear indication that God does want us to prosper, the same element in regards to worry, where it’s a sin and that you are to rely upon the Father to provide for you. Just as it’s written about how if evil men can give good gifts to their children, how much more so can the Father give to his children.

The part that’s missing in many of the prosperiety gospels is that it’s a two part process, not just one, and if you forget that, you have just took away from the true gospel. Take note, how that you are to follow Christ and obey his laws and teachings, this is the fundamental element that’s lacking here with these prosperiety sermon’s and gospels. Now, read further, such as in proverbs, it clearly states where being rich “or” poor is not a good state of being, that swaying either direction places you in a vicarious position. The problem is, too many people think that being poor is the Godly way to be, but it’s not, neither is being rich. Here is the clencher, define your current existance, are you rich, poor, or somewhere in between. Define it for yourself in your current community, then define it in comparison to outside communities throughout the world. It can become scary when you take a very hard look at it this way.
 
DallasCatholic said:
What do you mean by “the catholic church”? Since I’m belong to the Roman Catholic Church…
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To be precise, there is no such thing as a “Roman Catholic Church.” There is the latin rite of the Catholic Church… to say that the latin rite is somehow independent of the other rites of the catholic church is actually incorrect. Furthermore, protestants use the term to degrade catholics, as though the truth of Christ which is fully possessed in His church is a simple matter of rome instilling it rather than God.

You’re not ROMAN Catholic, you’re just Catholic, and you happen to follow the latin rite of the church.
 
promethius95945 said:
To be precise, there is no such thing as a “Roman Catholic Church.” There is the latin rite of the Catholic Church… to say that the latin rite is somehow independent of the other rites of the catholic church is actually incorrect. Furthermore, protestants use the term to degrade catholics, as though the truth of Christ which is fully possessed in His church is a simple matter of rome instilling it rather than God.

You’re not ROMAN Catholic, you’re just Catholic, and you happen to follow the latin rite of the church.
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:rolleyes:
oh brother… not again.
 
Brian_Millar said:
It is written that if you do what Christ has taught you, that you may ask the Father for anything. This is a clear indication that God does want us to prosper, the same element in regards to worry, where it’s a sin and that you are to rely upon the Father to provide for you. Just as it’s written about how if evil men can give good gifts to their children, how much more so can the Father give to his children.
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Actually the final line of this paraphrased citation is not about how much more wealth the father will give, but how willing he is to give the Holy Spirit to those that ask. It’s a citation that is often dragged out of context.🙂
 
rwoehmke said:
Actually the final line of this paraphrased citation is not about how much more wealth the father will give, but how willing he is to give the Holy Spirit to those that ask. It’s a citation that is often dragged out of context.🙂
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Anything is the keyword you gotta take to heart here, he didn’t say, specific things, he said anything.
 
I’m curious as to how often these “health and wealth” gospel churches dwell on Matthew chapter 16 and other passages like it.

***24 Then Jesus said to his disciples, "Whoever wishes to come after me must deny himself, take up his cross, and follow me. 25 For whoever wishes to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for my sake will find it. 26 What profit would there be for one to gain the whole world and forfeit his life? Or what can one give in exchange for his life? ***
 
Qoh.5 He that loveth silver shall not be satisfied with silver; nor he that loveth abundance with increase: this is also vanity.

Pss.4 O ye sons of men, how long will ye turn my glory into shame? how long will ye love vanity, and seek after leasing? Selah.

Pss.24 He that hath clean hands, and a pure heart; who hath not lifted up his soul unto vanity, nor sworn deceitfully.

Pss.119 Turn away mine eyes from beholding vanity; and quicken thou me in thy way

Pss.144 Rid me, and deliver me from the hand of strange
children, whose mouth speaketh vanity, and their right hand is a right hand of falsehood

Prov.30 Remove far from me vanity and lies: give me neither poverty nor riches; feed me with food convenient for me:

Qoh.5 He that loveth silver shall not be satisfied with silver; nor he that loveth abundance with increase: this is also vanity.

Isa.5 Woe unto them that draw iniquity with cords of vanity, and sin as it were with a cart rope

Isa.59 None calleth for justice, nor any pleadeth for truth: they trust in vanity, and speak lies; they conceive mischief, and bring forth iniquity.

Jer.2 Thus saith the LORD, What iniquity have your fathers found in me, that they are gone far from me, and have walked after vanity, and are become vain?

Jer.16 O LORD, my strength, and my fortress, and my refuge in the day of affliction, the Gentiles shall come unto thee from the ends of the earth, and shall say, Surely our fathers have inherited lies, vanity, and things wherein there is no profit.

Ezek.13 [6] They have seen vanity and lying divination, saying, The LORD saith: and the LORD hath not sent them: and they have made others to hope that they would confirm the word.
[8] Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Because ye have spoken vanity, and seen lies, therefore, behold, I am against you, saith the Lord GOD.

Ezek.13 And mine hand shall be upon the prophets that see vanity, and that divine lies: they shall not be in the assembly of my people, neither shall they be written in the writing of the house of Israel, neither shall they enter into the land of Israel; and ye shall know that I am the Lord GOD.

Ezek.22 And her prophets have daubed them with untempered morter, seeing vanity, and divining lies unto them, saying, Thus saith the Lord GOD, when the LORD hath not spoken.

2Pet.2 For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error.
 
NotWorthy said:
I’m curious as to how often these “health and wealth” gospel churches dwell on Matthew chapter 16 and other passages like it.

***24 Then Jesus said to his disciples, "Whoever wishes to come after me must deny himself, take up his cross, and follow me. 25 For whoever wishes to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for my sake will find it. 26 What profit would there be for one to gain the whole world and forfeit his life? Or what can one give in exchange for his life? ***
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Something occured to me while I’ve been toiling around on my business, this time, year 4 within it and have noticed a sharp decline in the market I’m in for the past 2. It is better to serve in heaven the rule in hell, so what I do next, I shut down the operation and find a regular job, it will be so nice to be a regular, working slob again, where I get to go home after my shift and not work until I’m physically and mentally incapacitated. This is also based upon observations from a couple of business owners I’ve tried to bring in as partners, for they are wealthy, yet it’s obvious, they have lost their soul in the process, in fact, my own brother is in that same boat, having watched him change dramatically due to his ever increasing wealth.

I am taking note of this, knowing full well, no amount of money will ever be worth it, it’s a shallow trade off and poor compensation when looking at the big picture.

I could follow their paths, I could become rich if I wanted it, but I would have to use their tactics, which are obviosly not within me, for I refuse to become cut throat, which is what it takes to make my current operation a success in that regard. And again, I refer to what’s written about how becoming rich “or” poor will not do the soul well, and in this case, I no longer will face the latter any more, for it has proven to be counterproductive, the same would be if I were to suddenly become rich, for I would fear that it would change me and seperate me from the Lord, no matter how much I think it would not, I do not want to take that chance.
 
Brian_Millar said:
Something occured to me while I’ve been toiling around on my business, this time, year 4 within it and have noticed a sharp decline in the market I’m in for the past 2. It is better to serve in heaven the rule in hell, so what I do next, I shut down the operation and find a regular job, it will be so nice to be a regular, working slob again, where I get to go home after my shift and not work until I’m physically and mentally incapacitated. This is also based upon observations from a couple of business owners I’ve tried to bring in as partners, for they are wealthy, yet it’s obvious, they have lost their soul in the process, in fact, my own brother is in that same boat, having watched him change dramatically due to his ever increasing wealth.

I am taking note of this, knowing full well, no amount of money will ever be worth it, it’s a shallow trade off and poor compensation when looking at the big picture.

I could follow their paths, I could become rich if I wanted it, but I would have to use their tactics, which are obviosly not within me, for I refuse to become cut throat, which is what it takes to make my current operation a success in that regard. And again, I refer to what’s written about how becoming rich “or” poor will not do the soul well, and in this case, I no longer will face the latter any more, for it has proven to be counterproductive, the same would be if I were to suddenly become rich, for I would fear that it would change me and seperate me from the Lord, no matter how much I think it would not, I do not want to take that chance.
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That’s a wise choice you seem to be making, especially if you look at the bigger picture. For yes, some people do lose their soul in the pursuit of money. But if those people lose their soul when they become successful, their children often end up in a deeper hole spiritually, because they don’t even appreciate the work ethic that it takes to become wealthy.
 
With what I deal with, it’s strictly b2b on all counts, I have seen the broad spectrum of people getting in, upgrading, or in general, expanding as well as those struggling. The ugly truth is, most people have no place being in any form of managment, much less being the boss and owning their operation. I’ve been trampled upon so many occassions, from clients to suppliers that it simply doesn’t make sense to continue to cater to these guys. I’ve had to deal with things that I’d never expect any employee to put up with, and it’s all about greed plain and simple. What got me were the ones that claimed to be Christian, they would do the whole 9 yards with their churches, yet when the chips were down, boy all of that went out the window and I was dealing with a total heathen at that point.

It’s strange how many people consider it necessary to grope at something that really isn’t good for them, you’d think they’d see the big picture, but they don’t see past the nose on their face. It has been driven home to me here, where it’s written the love of money is the root of all evil. If you look around your neighborhood, and take note those that continue to live beyond their means, trying to fill that empty void through material gain and to keep up wtih the Jonses, that their existances are pretty shallow and they are in bondage to these material things, for they gotta continue to pay them off with interest and it’s a constant matter of trying to top each other not being grateful for what they already have.

I have to admit, my own vision did entail money, but it was to be used for the good, for some financial stability for employees if I ever reached the point of being able to hire, and to be of better chairitable aid. What was being produced, there also was a great deal of pride I took into what I created, knowing full well, this was going to last and place the client in the most competive advantage. Those ideals though aren’t realistic, for their only concern is about money and self, which in turn puts my efforts into the null and void category.

On the opposite side of this coin, looking at what I have accomplished, what I have learned and what little I do own, I’ll be able to use these new skills in a manner most employers would drool over, so all is not lost with shutting it down. I think this is going to be a fun move and I think working in solitude so long wasn’t a good thing for me, I like being around other people, especially at work, not that I don’t like my own company, and the quiet alone times have helped with prayer and getting to know the Lord more on a one on one basis, but there is much to be said for having another soul around while you are working. I also may learn some new things in the process which is always good since school never ends for me, even at the age of 40. I think things are going to turn out better then before and I think I’ll be happier to be a cog in the machine rather then the entire machine as well.
 
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