The protestant gospel

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Are you considering coming back to the Catholic Church?
Yes I am eager. I just want to find a place where I can grow in holiness. Not just my own life, but within the context of a fellowship of people where all are of the same mind and judgement. One where my family will see examples of disciples.

Ive never even met a catholic who speaks like Ireneus, Justin martyr, or Augustine. But I have found many protestants who do.
 
I’m afraid that you are all too correct in this…We have a great need for evangelization within the Church.

Peace
James
I would agree that. The first place to start for
Catholics is reconversion to our faith.
My experience with many everyday protestants is that there is an ignorance of sin. Not found. in Catholics.
Maybe thats why EX. -Catholics make good Protestants.
The church certainly gives you an understanding of sin.
With Catholics its not ignorance but defyance
Both are dangerous.
When Protestants become Catholic they areaware of the necessity of conversion.
I was raised Catholic became atheist and truly became. Catholic at my conversion.
How anyone could abandon the mass baffles me.
 
Yes I am eager. I just want to find a place where I can grow in holiness. Not just my own life, but within the context of a fellowship of people where all are of the same mind and judgement. One where my family will see examples of disciples.

Ive never even met a catholic who speaks like Ireneus, Justin martyr, or Augustine. But I have found many protestants who do.
The Church - her official teachings - still speak the same.
You’ll find that Protestants still speak like Ireneus, Justin Martyr, Augustine, etc., but only in certain areas or topics. They do not speak the same way in regards to the Mass and Eucharist, papacy, …

As to finding a parish/fellowship of people where all are of the same mind and judgement - I don’t think you’re going to find one on this earth. Not in the Catholic Church and not in other Churches. You happen to be living in one of the eras where there is much dissent taking place in the Catholic Church. But God chose you to be born at this particular time; He has a purpose for it; He’ll provide the graces. Pursue His truth; that should be the basis for which Church/denomination you choose to join. It should be based on God’s truth, not the behavior of humans.
(The teachings of the Church about the Eucharist REALLY ARE TRUE.)
 
Yes I am eager. I just want to find a place where I can grow in holiness. Not just my own life, but within the context of a fellowship of people where all are of the same mind and judgement. One where my family will see examples of disciples.

Ive never even met a catholic who speaks like Ireneus, Justin martyr, or Augustine. But I have found many protestants who do.
Well, you shouldn’t join the Church until you are focused on Jesus. At the moment you seem distracted by humanity.
 
The Church - her official teachings - still speak the same.
You’ll find that Protestants still speak like Ireneus, Justin Martyr, Augustine, etc., but only in certain areas or topics. They do not speak the same way in regards to the Mass and Eucharist, papacy, …

As to finding a parish/fellowship of people where all are of the same mind and judgement - I don’t think you’re going to find one on this earth. Not in the Catholic Church and not in other Churches. You happen to be living in one of the eras where there is much dissent taking place in the Catholic Church. But God chose you to be born at this particular time; He has a purpose for it; He’ll provide the graces. Pursue His truth; that should be the basis for which Church/denomination you choose to join. It should be based on God’s truth, not the behavior of humans.
(The teachings of the Church about the Eucharist REALLY ARE TRUE.)
I know of many protestant churches who all of the same mind and judgement on things. Truth is never seperated from behavior. If a congregation has truth and does not walk in truth christ cannot remain there
 
I was raised a Roman Catholic. Was born, baptized, and raised in a Catholic Church and school.

Everyone I knew who was Catholic, that was my age, hated to go to mass. We had out communion anyway.

Our parents lived in outward rebellion, drunkeness, anger, wrath, abuse, sexual immorality, divorce, etc,etc

My first experience of protestantism was in Orlando, FL through a message of repentance and a turning to God and to prove it by good works. Otherwise, no salvation is there.

Since then I have not even been in a church which has taught otherwise.

In my own experience, Reformed theology has always fought against what is called “Easy-believism” which is the belief that all you have to do is accept Jesus into your heart and believe and your eternal destiny is sealed.

Therefore, when I hear Catholics characterize where I came from, I must disagree…
I was raised in the Reformed tradition, and attended private schools at which great emphasis was placed on daily scripture study. I’ve spent a lot of time among Methodists, Baptists, Presbyterians, Oneness Pentacostals, and Congregationalists of various types, and have run into a dizzying variety of belief among them. When I hear lapsed Catholics wrongly characterize where I come from and misrepresent the variation in belief among Protestants (of which I am well aware), then I must also disagree.

You might not have run into any Protestants that believe what you’re talking about, but I assure you that they are out there. I’ve known them personally. Like it or not, what they believe on this is the logical conclusion from Calvinist teachings on predestination.
 
The core major issues are virtually the same, differences are on secondary issues and usually more fuse than worth. As the other poster said focus on Christ.
 
One of the differences between Catholicism and Protestantism is the fact that we have declared, unchangeable doctrines. We have an authoritative source to go to when we hear questionable teachings put forth by priests or laity. The infallibility of the Pope and Magisterium is a great gift and protection against error which Our Lord gave to His Church.

I have heard Protestant minister converts speak of how they would be teaching one thing but down the street another minister in their denomination would be teaching just the opposite. They had no way of verifying that their message was the correct one. Their denomination had no authoritative unchangeable doctrines which had to be professed and upheld in preaching.

Their testimonies brought to mind an incident (20+ years ago) with a Baptist friend of mine. In our conversation about all the new assaults taking place on traditional Christian teaching, she said she almost envied me; wished they had something in the Baptist Church like our doctrines (officially defined; unchangeable). She was worried about changes her denomination might make in their teachings. And subsequently they did make some.

Granted, today in the Catholic Church we are often confronted with dissenting/false messages by priests and other teachers. But we have a resource to go to in order to check the validity of what they say. We can challenge their teaching by citing official Church documents.
 
I know of many protestant churches who all of the same mind and judgement on things. Truth is never seperated from behavior. If a congregation has truth and does not walk in truth christ cannot remain there
How large a congregation was it; how long were you a member there. How well did you know all the members and their personal “mind and judgement”.
I’m not sure why you are familiar with “many protestant churches”. But if they were so united in truth, why did you leave one and go to another? I’m guessing it must have been your job that caused you to move.
 
Yes I am eager. I just want to find a place where I can grow in holiness. Not just my own life, but within the context of a fellowship of people where all are of the same mind and judgement. One where my family will see examples of disciples.

Ive never even met a catholic who speaks like Ireneus, Justin martyr, or Augustine. But I have found many protestants who do.
In truth, I think that the Church needs more such converts (reverts)…

But I disagree that you need to “Find a place” like you seek. It’s really more that you (and other orthodox Catholics) need to build them.
Someday I hope to be able to become more involved in this type of work.

Peace
James
 
I know of many protestant churches who all of the same mind and judgement on things. Truth is never seperated from behavior. If a congregation has truth and does not walk in truth christ cannot remain there
This can certainly be true within a local community or even a denomination, but fails when one crosses the denominational boundary.

I was greatly impressed by your post above describing church discipline using Mt 18:15-18…But that discipline falls apart in the general “protestant” community where “different gospels” are taught, doctrinal disagreements arise and splits occur because no way exists to resolve the issues within the general protestant model.

The protestant wishes to apply Mt 18 locally - but not beyond that. Why is that?
The Bible shows us Mt 18 applied universally in the council in Acts 15…The RC and EO have been using councils -at many levels - since the earliest times…
The Protestant communion of Churches have zero councils to their credit (so far as I am aware).

Peace
James
 
Yes I am eager. I just want to find a place where I can grow in holiness. Not just my own life, but within the context of a fellowship of people where all are of the same mind and judgement. One where my family will see examples of disciples.

Ive never even met a catholic who speaks like Ireneus, Justin martyr, or Augustine. But I have found many protestants who do.
Well, maybe you just haven’t met enough Catholics yet. And maybe, just maybe, 'speaking like Ireneus, Justin Martyr, or Augustine" isn’t the sum total of the Christian faith.

And (I know this may shock you), ‘speaking like’ a person doesn’t make you really ‘like’ that person.

The other day we had ‘talk like a pirate day’. Does that mean that all of us having fun with “Avast, ye scurvy swabs” WERE pirates?

Plenty of people can ‘talk’ up a good game of Scripture. And they can (like the Pharisees) even ‘show’ a good game.

It’s the heart that counts.

In my life I have known dozens of people (Catholics) who might have, in their lives, made the occasional rude comment, sinned the occasional (or even more) sin, mixed up now and then "assumption’ and ‘ascension’, etc.

BUT in the sum total of their lives, these people whom you probably never noticed, or would have dismissed as hypocrites, having ‘seen’ them perhaps openly sinning on an occasional, went on to actually ‘be’ an Augustine. . .realizing their errors, repenting, doing penance, doing good. Quietly.

Because they weren’t ‘out in your view’, you dismiss them. Because their prayers were ‘in secret’ while their sin was ‘in public’, you think only of their sin. Because they were humble enough not to go around once they DID realize their error, and instead QUIETLY did reparation, ‘living the gospel’ and not having to ‘use words’ and exalt themselves, they aren’t ‘known’ to you. But they are to God.

(Of course, I know plenty of protestants for whom one could say the same --they may not have looked ‘good’ at some point, but they repented later and they tried to please God. Thing is, you already give the Protestants the benefit of the doubt!!! Not Catholics, though!!!)

Remember what the Scripture says? There are going to be people saying, “But Lord, I did all kinds of things IN YOUR NAME” and He will say, “I never knew you”.

I don’t want to be unkind, but lately, Erick, I see an awful lot of the "Pharisee’ in your posts, glorying that you and your protestant peeps are so wonderful, not like the Catholic drunks and losers. . .

and if you’ll recall, it wasn’t THAT man who went home justified, but the ‘low life’ loser who prayed, "God be merciful to me, a sinner’.

There are a LOT of Catholics, and I’m one of them, who make the prayer of that publican every single day. We KNOW we are sinners. We try the best we can. I’m sorry if that isn’t enough for YOU, but luckily we aren’t trying to please you, but to please God. . .
 
Who said I didn’t believe in the necessity of works?

Listen, the protestant church I came from, which was a reformed baptist congregation, following much of the puritan theology of the 16,17th century, never once said that works were not essential for salvation. I am not sure what is being attacked here.
That’s all well and good but have you bothered to compare their teachings with authentic and authoritative Catholic teachings as well as those of the early church. They are very far away from both.
In the Westminster confession of faith and in the English baptist confessions of faith, all teaching that sanctification is as equally necessary as justification for eternal salvation. You are attacking the modern day apostacy which exists not just in the protestant churches but also in the Catholic Church, my family is one example, and it is even TOLERATED in the catholic church.
I don’t know where you get that this stuff is tolerated. Individual may be struggling against sin in their lives (and if you try to tell me that you do not, then I will suggest that you are either lying or self deceived). That is precisely why Our Blessed Lord established the sacrament of Confession and in the way that he did.

Furthermore, who has set you in judgement of others? What does the New Testament actually say about that? (See Romans 14:4)
These protestants believed that justification is a gift of God that occurs within a much LARGER structure of salvation in the NEW BIRTH. Therefore, these protestants who broke away from the Catholic Church (whether this was wrong or right) never began to teach that justification is the be all and end all of salvation, rather it was a small component of the multi-faceted diamond of salvation, of which includes the neccesary grace of sanctification which provides the soul to perservere in holiness until the day of Christ.
Then they should have remained in the Catholic Church and in complete compliance with all the New Testament teaches.
It is extremely sad to see a protestant congregation, particularly the ones I am familiar with and of whom I have left for personal reasons, more committed to Christ than the many many Catholics I’ve met over the world, and I’ve met hundreds.
Again…you judge, and nowhere in the New Testament are any of us given that personal authority. You seem to have failed to note the following very important message from Our Blessed Lord Himself.
Matthew 13:24-30 I happen to know many excellent and very saintly Catholics in our parish. They never fail to bless me and encourage me to an ever deepening conversion and to take up my cross daily and follow Our Blessed Lord.

Nowhere in the Word of God am I (or you) given the right and authority to pluck up the growing plants of the seeds sown by the Holy Spirit so that we can check their roots to see if they are growing the way we think they should be. And consider: What happens when you yank a plant up (even a healthy one) so that you can see it’s roots like that? Yeah…it withers and dies. You kill it.

We realize that there are apostates and heretics out in the world who mislead people and I expose and refute them wherever I encounter them. (Something that you’d know if you perused my post and thread history) We Catholics work hard to try to help each other find our way to an ever deepening knowledge of and relationship to Our Blessed Lord Jesus Christ. However…your linked video, though an impassioned plea, is from a guy who belongs to a community that espouses errant new winds of doctrines of modern men and not authentic New Testament Christianity. (Yeah, I read his blog and listened to some of his stuff…)
Yes I am eager. I just want to find a place where I can grow in holiness. Not just my own life, but within the context of a fellowship of people where all are of the same mind and judgement. One where my family will see examples of disciples.
Gee…maybe if they saw that authentic and committed Catholicism in your life they might be drawn to it by the Holy Spirit. Who’s fault is that then? The first responsibility of every believer is to work his own salvation with fear and trembling and to commit himself to our Blessed Lord Jesus Christ and the Church that He established and has preserved with all of the correct Christian doctrines. None of the communities that you have this far mentioned do so. Especially when laid side by side with the New Testament and the authentic writings of the early church.
Ive never even met a catholic who speaks like Ireneus, Justin martyr, or Augustine. But I have found many protestants who do.
You mentioned the way St. Augustine talked…Well, let’s look at that.
“I would not believe in the Gospel myself if the authority of the Catholic Church did not influence me to do so.”
Against the letter of Mani, 5,6, 397 A.D.
and then,
“All heretics wish to be styled Catholic, yet if anyone asks them where is the Catholic place of worship none would venture to point out his own. —St. Augustine of Hippo
Cont’d
 
I know of many protestant churches who all of the same mind and judgement on things. Truth is never seperated from behavior.
If a congregation has truth and does not walk in truth christ cannot remain thereYet they have not maintained the doctrines of the New Testament Church as evidenced by their many departures from Catholic doctrine. So how then can their lives be fully committed to Our Blessed Lord while rejecting what He taught and the Church that He established and exists even today.

Certainly there are those individuals who err or depart from the faith within the Catholic Church per se, but they are not the Pope and the authority that teaches the truth and they are God’s problem (remember the wheat and tares above) and my job is to be the very best Catholic I possibly can be and to hope that my example is used by His Spirit to draw them and all others into this same kind of relationship with Our Blessed Lord. (Even so see Luke 17:10) Ranting about them, (like your guy in the video) is not what we are called to, especially since he himself is in doctrinal error. :eek:
Jesus does not dwell with the wicked. Read revelation 1-3
Really?
Better see Matthew 11:19 & Luke 7:34
 
Christ will not tolerate sin in the church that is unrepentant
 
I have a life that is in dire need of the forgiveness and mercy of God. Some may think of Christ as having come for the rich and the righteous, nut truly he came for the poor and the sinners, for the sick. Christ comes for the worst of people.

I should have died many times by now, but Christ has shown mercy and love with a desire to embrace me. I can never forget that.

Be that said, I now want to live for Christ and to follow his commands, to be pure.

The real humilitybis to be obedient to Christ when most will not.

Do you remember the man who was in the fellowship of Corinth? The man who was sexually immoral with his fathers wife? The Corinthians had the attitude of acceptance to it. And Paul says they should have put him out a long time ago. They were proud in allowing such sin in the church.

Paul’s instructions were deliver the man to Satan for the destruction of the flesh. I’ve seen this happen and I’ve seen it produce a deep repentance in someones life.

Sometimes what we think is pride is actually humility
 
If you are seeking to better understand the Catholic doctrine of Justification, the I would recommend a book by Robert Sungenis called Not by Faith Alone. I’m sure that may clear up whatever questions you may have, besides his understanding of Works of the Law and all works in general are much closer to yours, then the typical Ceremonial Laws or Laws of the Torah. I tend to agree with you on that. It’s just put in perspective under the Covenant we have through Christ, and laid out masterfully by Mr Sungenis. Also you can look at the canon on justification from trent link here ewtn.com/library/councils/trent6.htm

God bless!
 
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