The Protestant invisible church

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“Fatherknowsbest”?

Sorry about that “FathersKnowBest”. Just picked that up on the proverbial radar and too late to edit.
Don’t sweat it … I’ve been called worse. 😉
I picked that name in honor of the Apostolic Church Fathers who convinced me of the veracity of the Church’s teachings when I was “searching.” It was a few years before Jimmy Akin came up with a book of the same name.
 
Does it? Where in scripture are the justifications listed for splitting the Church that Jesus began? 🍿
If I’m being forced to believe in burning heretics which goes against Christ’s teachings then I have every right to leave and follow a Church that does no such thing. Wouldn’t you?

Or perhaps I can speak out against it and die a martyr, either way the Church is abusing its power.
 
If I’m being forced to believe in burning heretics which goes against Christ’s teachings then I have every right to leave and follow a Church that does no such thing. Wouldn’t you?
Christ protects his Church on the teaching of faith and morals, not from the sinful lives of it’s members. No… I would not leave the Church that Christ established, and leave the life saving benefits of the seven sacraments that Christ instituted to give us his grace, including the Eucharist where he says that unless you eat the flesh and drink the blood of the Son of Man, you have no life in you.
Or perhaps I can speak out against it and die a martyr,
That’s just silly

PnP
 
So this is why I say there is need for different Churches because not everyone agrees in burning others alive for differing opinions. When we speak of cities being destroyed you point to Sodom, I point to Jesus’s words. So what do we do when an entire Church is on a heretic burning rampage? We get away from that Church. If heretics were being burned now, then people would leave it and I wouldn’t blame them.

Ask any Evangelical Church if they should burn heretics alive and they would say no. Yet you’re forced to believe it can be justified because your Church has done so. It’s an unfortunate predicament and it justifies separation.
What about the Puritan’s who burned witches
What about the Anglican 's who burned and beheaded Catholics.

This is what you don’t seem to grasp.

The separation of civil and religious authorities as well as the difference in time and place.
 
So this is why I say there is need for different Churches because not everyone agrees in burning others alive for differing opinions. When we speak of cities being destroyed you point to Sodom, I point to Jesus’s words. So what do we do when an entire Church is on a heretic burning rampage? We get away from that Church. If heretics were being burned now, then people would leave it and I wouldn’t blame them.

Ask any Evangelical Church if they should burn heretics alive and they would say no. Yet you’re forced to believe it can be justified because your Church has done so. It’s an unfortunate predicament and it justifies separation.
Are you also not familiar with the Protestsnt Wars and the great evils Protestants inflicted on Catholics during the reformation?

This obviously wasn’t seen as a moral issue back then, as both sides did the same thing. It was how laws were administered in that time.

It reflects the civil society not the religious society.
 
Christ protects his Church on the teaching of faith and morals, not from the sinful lives of it’s members. No… I would not leave the Church that Christ established, and leave the life saving benefits of the seven sacraments that Christ instituted to give us his grace, including the Eucharist where he says that unless you eat the flesh and drink the blood of the Son of Man, you have no life in you.

That’s just silly

PnP
And I don’t believe killing over different beliefs is okay.
 
If I’m being forced to believe in burning heretics which goes against Christ’s teachings then I have every right to leave and follow a Church that does no such thing. Wouldn’t you?

Or perhaps I can speak out against it and die a martyr, either way the Church is abusing its power.
Burning heritics is wrong. If a pope condoned this…then he is wrong. The Church is filled with scrondrels and sinners. If you are looking for perfect people…good luck.

With that being said, the Church is charged to protect the faith, protect the Church from falling into heresy, and to save souls. So far…the Catholic Church has a perfect record. That cannot be said about any other Christian church.
 
Burning heritics is wrong. If a pope condoned this…then he is wrong. The Church is filled with scrondrels and sinners. If you are looking for perfect people…good luck.

With that being said, the Church is charged to protect the faith, protect the Church from falling into heresy, and to save souls. So far…the Catholic Church has a perfect record. That cannot be said about any other Christian church.
So if Pope Leo X said burning heretics is not against the will of the Spirit, and I as a Protestant was a heretic would you condone any order that I should be burned or turned over to be burned? If you were threatened with excommunication for disagreeing what would you do?
 
So if Pope Leo X said burning heretics is not against the will of the Spirit, and I as a Protestant was a heretic would you condone any order that I should be burned or turned over to be burned? If you were threatened with excommunication for disagreeing what would you do?
You cannot be excommunicated by disagreeing with a Pope’s personal opinion, him being Pope notwithstanding. Nor that would be the reason to leave the Church. Of course there are people who would but really, that is not the reason. There are far more important things in the Church that we still need to fulfill and do which we have to as Christians. And these are to be found in the Church and they are far more important than whatever a Pope’s opinion is.

Again it is important to know that, especially for non-Catholics that the ‘three legged stool’ of Tradition, Scripture, and Magisterium, of which one cannot go against the others:

1. “Sacred Tradition” (CCC81)
2. “Holy Tradition” (CCC81)

The transmission of divine revelation:“One common source” in “two distinct modes” (CCC80) are transmitted “orally” and in “writing” (CCC76). Canon of Scripture assembled over time, grew out of apostolic (oral) Tradition (CCC83).

3. Magisterium, the “teaching office” of the Church (CCC85)
a. The Bishops in union with the Pope
b. Interprets revelation in both its written and oral form (CCC85)
 
And do you agree with all of those actions Jon?
I didn’t say that, but I try to judge through the light of the time they were in not my modern lens.

FYI

I, along with the Catholic Church, am pretty outspoken about removing the death penalty from our modern western society.

🙂
 
I, along with the Catholic Church, am pretty outspoken about removing the death penalty from our modern western society.

🙂
Good point. 👍 Even though the death penalty is allowed “ … if this is the only possible way of effectively defending human lives against the unjust aggressor.” (CCC2267), Popes in recent years have been vocal in calling for the end to death penalty in their prayers and exaltations. This is not to mention the teaching of the Church against abortion and Pope John Paul II’s encyclical Pro-life Evangelium Vitae has been the bulwark in voicing this in the global arena. While others have changed their mind with regard to pro-life, the Church has been unequivocal on its preservation.
 
Burning heritics is wrong. If a pope condoned this…then he is wrong. The Church is filled with scrondrels and sinners. If you are looking for perfect people…good luck.

With that being said, the Church is charged to protect the faith, protect the Church from falling into heresy, and to save souls. So far…the Catholic Church has a perfect record. That cannot be said about any other Christian church.
Find me a Church without sinners and I will join today. 😉

Christ protects his Church not from sinners, but from error on faith and morals. 👍

PnP
 
So if Pope Leo X said burning heretics is not against the will of the Spirit, and I as a Protestant was a heretic would you condone any order that I should be burned or turned over to be burned? If you were threatened with excommunication for disagreeing what would you do?
One should never condone wrong doing or commit wrong doing…even under the threat of penalty.
 
dronald.

I had a laugh that you mentioned the indulgence issue. Sadly I admit there is some truth to what you say concerning Indulgence abuses (there were ABUSES but these abuses were never the official Church teachings). But Indulgence abuses are another example of “bad Catholics” and not official Church teaching. The real “scoop” on indulgences can be found here in MP3 or here in CDs if you want to hear a Catholic man faithfully teach on this subject in depth.
I like to point out that indulgences are a spiritual truth that has been abused. Yes. But there is another spiritual truth that is frequently abused by protestants, isn’t there?

What ever you give will be given back to you 10 fold.

Many a protestant preacher has gotten rich off the abuse of this spiritual truth, and protestants will admit that the abuse happens but would never say that the abuse means it is not a spiritual truth.
 
I like to point out that indulgences are a spiritual truth that has been abused. Yes. But there is another spiritual truth that is frequently abused by protestants, isn’t there?

What ever you give will be given back to you 10 fold.

Many a protestant preacher has gotten rich off the abuse of this spiritual truth, and protestants will admit that the abuse happens but would never say that the abuse means it is not a spiritual truth.
Abused by some protestants, to be sure.

Jon
 
I like to point out that indulgences are a spiritual truth that has been abused. Yes. But there is another spiritual truth that is frequently abused by protestants, isn’t there?

What ever you give will be given back to you 10 fold.

Many a protestant preacher has gotten rich off the abuse of this spiritual truth, and protestants will admit that the abuse happens but would never say that the abuse means it is not a spiritual truth.
Great Example!

http://esg6rzdhdg9i115s.zippykid.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/tbn.jpeg
 
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