The Protestant Reformers View Of Mary

[Bill_Pick]

James and John were cousins; Andrew and Peter were cousins - same Greek word.​

I don’t mind if you talk to protestants. It’s non of my business. I’m not sure why you’re asking.

well if you look at your last post to me you can see what I said

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

Yes an encounter. And this sexual imagery you just sprewed is disgusting. You should be ashamed of yourself. But you will not be. It just confirms what this kind of language causes people to bring up.

Just show us where that type of encounter happened to another. If you can’t, then it’s a special relationship.

 

[adstrinity]

Yes an encounter. And this sexual imagery you just sprewed is disgusting. You should be ashamed of yourself. But you will not be. It just confirms what this kind of language causes people to bring up.

You’re the one who mentioned an encounter. You’re the one reading anything sexual into it. I never mentioned anything of the sort.

You keep in mind you reckon, unsupported by the Bible, that God and Mary had, “an encounter,” not a relationship. You will hold that YOU have a relationship with God, but, not Mary. You ponder and meditate on all this. Pray to the HS. Tell me what you come up with.

 

[adstrinity]

PS,

BrianH is taking it too literal same as Dokima. That is why they are having issues. I have repeatedly said that the context of the Mary as “Spouse of the Holy Spirit” is merely written in poetic terms using metaphors, analogies… etc. Despite my continue arguments that it isn’t literal, they continue to view it as literal

I ponder if viewing Jesus as Lamb is a issue to them, or Paul’s writing when he call Jesus, “He who was without sin become sin…,” ( 2 Cor 5:21)

And you know what, I acknowledge this. I looked for this even in the CCC, but, couldn’t find this as official Church teaching. I, however, still hold to it, because of the wholly unique and intimate relationship Mary had with God. Daughter, Mother, Spouse.

 

[BrianH]

You’re the one who mentioned an encounter. You’re the one reading anything sexual into it. I never mentioned anything of the sort.

You keep in mind you reckon, unsupported by the Bible, that God and Mary had, “an encounter,” not a relationship. You will hold that YOU have a relationship with God, but, not Mary. You ponder and meditate on all this. Pray to the HS. Tell me what you come up with.

You called it a spiritual one night stand. That IS sexual. You got disgusting. Not me.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

Then your reading comprehension is poor.
Yeah, I want to beat a dead horse. Hey, you never answered my question. How long have you been Catholic? When did you convert? I could explain why it is important but i am working on theory of converts.

1. Now, I addressed your ‘off topic’ question, please provide where another shared the same type ‘encounter’ with the Holy Spirit, which is on topic.

Really Brian, you are closing your eyes to the analogy explained to you for what seems to be only to beat the ‘anti-Catholic’ drum, in my honest opinion.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

You called it a spiritual one night stand. That IS sexual. You got disgusting. Not me.

What is a non-special one time encounter then? Maybe you should elaborate a bit more yourself.

 

[adstrinity]

You called it a spiritual one night stand. That IS sexual. You got disgusting. Not me.

Exactly. Spiritual. Not sexual. Spiritual. You read sexual into it.

It seems, essentially, that that is what you believe. You define what you believe if it’s not that. You imply God overshadowed Her & left Her alone, do you not?

 

[Mannyfit75]

Just one more roadblock. Im sick of them. They always come up around Mary.

Everytime, I hear a Non-Catholic say, “I’m sick of them” concerning Mary. Do you think that would be wise of you to say that, Brian?

and to think, you say this in before Jesus Christ, (yes, he is watching us) and insult his mother. I am sure, you would take offense to someone if they defame your mother.

So you are sick that the CC have dogmatically stated these doctrines as true? To be sick of something is to be ill…

1. Mary, Mother of God.
2. Mary, Perpetual Virgin.
3. Mary, Immaculate Conception.
4. Mary, Assumed Body and Soul into Heaven.

 

[Mannyfit75]

And you know what, I acknowledge this. I looked for this even in the CCC, but, couldn’t find this as official Church teaching. I, however, still hold to it, because of the wholly unique and intimate relationship Mary had with God. Daughter, Mother, Spouse.

Mary is known as Daughter of God the Father, (spiritually speaking), the Spouse of the Holy Spirit (spiritually speaking not literal since Mary only have one literal spouse, Joseph), and Mother of God (Literal because she conceived the Word made flesh).

The Church has never declared Mary to be Spouse of the Holy Spirit. When the Church describes Mary as Spouse of the Holy Spirit, it has a spiritual meaning to it. Not literal. I would be careful to declare Mary as the True Spouse of the Holy Spirit as LITERAL; for the Catholic Church have never declare this to be so.

 

[BrianH]

Everytime, I hear a Non-Catholic say, “I’m sick of them” concerning Mary. Do you think that would be wise of you to say that, Brian?

and to think, you say this in before Jesus Christ, (yes, he is watching us) and insult his mother. I am sure, you would take offense to someone if they defame your mother.

So you are sick that the CC have dogmatically stated these doctrines as true? To be sick of something is to be ill…

1. Mary, Mother of God.
2. Mary, Perpetual Virgin.
3. Mary, Immaculate Conception.
4. Mary, Assumed Body and Soul into Heaven.

I have absolutely not insulted his mother Manny. You know, I actually, unlike the other people on here, would have expected better of you because you are a good guy. I am sick of the roadblocks Manny. The roadblocks. I do not believe them. I cannot make myself believe them. I have tried over and over again. I cant do it. This is just one more Manny. I think my objection to the term spouse of the Holy Spirit is because it says something about her that is not true. In that sense, I believe I am defending her.
It doesn’t matter though.

 

[BrianH]

Exactly. Spiritual. Not sexual. Spiritual. You read sexual into it.

It seems, essentially, that that is what you believe. You define what you believe if it’s not that. You imply God overshadowed Her & left Her alone, do you not?

You said one night stand. Own up to it.
One night stand. Your terms, not mine. You. And yes, I think it was inappropriate.
You cannot redefine one night stand to mean something different. Nice try but you took it that way. Not me. I would never, ever, in a million years have used the term one night stand but…I guess that is how we are different adstrinity.

 

[Mannyfit75]

I have absolutely not insulted his mother Manny. You know, I actually, unlike the other people on here, would have expected better of you because you are a good guy. I am sick of the roadblocks Manny. The roadblocks. I do not believe them. I cannot make myself believe them. I have tried over and over again. I cant do it. This is just one more Manny. I think my objection to the term spouse of the Holy Spirit is because it says something about her that is not true. In that sense, I believe I am defending her.
It doesn’t matter though.

I think you could have use a better term that call these roadblock as being sick because for us, Catholics. It is insulting because it is our belief. You are not required to believe them because you are not Catholic. Why do you bother since these core doctrines are not REQUIRED for Non-Catholics, like yourself?

 

[BrianH]

I think you could have use a better term that call these roadblock as being sick because for us, Catholics. It is insulting because it is our belief. You are not required to believe them because you are not Catholic. Why do you bother since these core doctrines are not REQUIRED for Non-Catholics, like yourself?

I am not trying to be offensive to Catholics Manny. I am personally sick of not being able to believe them because it prevents me from being Orthodox or Catholic. That is why I bother. However, if I offended you, I am sorry. I will be more careful next time.

 

[Dokimas]

well if you look at your last post to me you can see what I said

It’s not that you say, but what you say that matters. If you are saying things that you do too then you deserved to have that pointed out to you. I guess that’s the context of our posts.

 

[Dokimas]

Let’s see if we can look from Mary’s perspective for a bit. Okay?​

Let’s role play: if you were Mary, which would be worse? And why?​

Situation #1

Mary is not perpetually a virgin; not without sin; not the mother of God but the mother of Jesus’ human body, not immaculately conceived. How would you feel if a group of people believed about you as the CC people do?​

Situation #2
Mary is as the CC teaches and non-catholic Christians believe as we do, that God used a wonderful young woman to bear His Son; she was faithful; she was obedient, but did n’t believe as the CC teaches.​

Is it more difficult to have someone believe more of you than is real or less?

 

[Mannyfit75]

I am not trying to be offensive to Catholics Manny. I am personally sick of not being able to believe them because it prevents me from being Orthodox or Catholic. That is why I bother. However, if I offended you, I am sorry. I will be more careful next time.

Then pray and mediate on these mysteries. We are during the season of Lent, (though I am not sure if your faith practice Lent). Lent of course involve prayer, abstinence, fasting, and almsgiving. I would pray to the Holy Spirit too. Prayer is just as important as reading the Bible. In fact is is very important. Before Jesus started his ministry, he prayed.

As a Catholic, I have no issue with Catholic teachings on faith and morals. I try everyday to do God’s will; To love him, serve him, and ultimately be with him in heaven after I die.

I’ll pray for you during my Liturgy of the Hours… I just finished my Night Prayer… so tomorrow I’ll offer it during the intecessionary prayer.

 

[adstrinity]

You said one night stand. Own up to it.
One night stand. Your terms, not mine. You. And yes, I think it was inappropriate.
You cannot redefine one night stand to mean something different. Nice try but you took it that way. Not me. I would never, ever, in a million years have used the term one night stand but…I guess that is how we are different adstrinity.

You’re the one with the belief. You own up to it.

 

[Mannyfit75]

Let’s see if we can look from Mary’s perspective for a bit. Okay?​

Let’s role play: if you were Mary, which would be worse? And why?​

Situation #1

Mary is not perpetually a virgin; not without sin; not the mother of God but the mother of Jesus’ human body, not immaculately conceived. How would you feel if a group of people believed about you as the CC people do?

There is no if about it. The truth of the matter is that Mary is the Perpetual Virgin.

The official acts of the Fifth Ecumenical Council held at Constantinople in 553 refer to Mary as aeiparthenos (i.e. ever-virgin). **"that nativity of these latter days when the Word of God came down from the heavens and was made flesh of holy and glorious Mary, mother of God and ever-virgin, and was born from her **

It was further defined again in another Council.

**Lateran Council of 649 convened by Pope Martin I also issued an important statement affirming Mary’s lifelong virginity:

If anyone does not, according to the Holy Fathers, confess truly and properly that holy Mary, ever virgin and immaculate, is Mother of God, since in this latter age she conceived in true reality without human seed from the Holy Spirit, God the Word Himself, who before the ages was born of God the Father, and gave birth to Him without corruption, her virginity remaining equally inviolate after the birth, let him be condemned.
**​

Situation #2
Mary is as the CC teaches and non-catholic Christians believe as we do, that God used a wonderful young woman to bear His Son; she was faithful; she was obedient, but did n’t believe as the CC teaches.​

Is it more difficult to have someone believe more of you than is real or less?

In the Council of Ephesus 430 AD, the Church affirm Mary as the Theotokos, or Mother of God. The Council of Ephesus was more about Jesus than Mary since it deals with the Person of Jesus Christ himself. The Council affirms that Jesus is both God and Man. Since Mary is the Mother of Jesus, she is therefore the Mother of God, the Son (Incarnate), Jesus Christ. Mother of God does not mean that she is Mother of the God, the Father, nor the Mother of God, the Holy Spirit.

The Council states, “If anyone will not confess that the Emmanuel is very God, and that therefore the Holy Virgin is the Mother of God (Theotokos), inasmuch as in the flesh she bore the Word of God made flesh as it is written, ‘The Word was made flesh’: let him be anathema.” Council of Ephesus, Anathemas Against Nestorius, I (A.D. 430).

 

[rev_kevin]

Mary & Joseph were husband & wife in name only, not in relations. They lived as brother and sister for numerous reasons.
How in the world did you come up with this one? They lived as brother and sister. Why did they marry in the first place? Also give me the numberous of reasons.

The crowd did think He was the son of Joseph. What is curious, though, is that they never thought anybody else was the son of Joseph, or the son of Mary. They don’t refer to anybody else as the (or a) son of Joseph or the (or a) son of Mary.

It is not merely ~I~ who says Mary was the Spouse of the Holy Spirit (and think of this perfect relationship She has with God: Daughter, Mother, & Spouse), but, it is the Catholic Church, including the Bible. The Bible states that Mary is the beloved of the HS. I am not saying something heterodox.