The Protestant Reformers View Of Mary

[Bill_Pick]

Calvin,Luther and Zwingli, The three fathers of the Reeformation each affirmed the Cathloic doctrines that Mary is the Mother of God and Perpetual Virgin.
We need to ask all protestants ,to honor Mary as much as the founders of their own tradition did .

 

[Dokimas]

Calvin,Luther and Zwingli, The three fathers of the Reeformation each affirmed the Cathloic doctrines that Mary is the Mother of God and Perpetual Virgin.
We need to ask all protestants ,to honor Mary as much as the founders of their own tradition did .

Why do you feel the need to ask all protestant anything? Are you the log (or speck) out of the eye plucker?​

Is it honoring to believe something that is not true about a person? If what you believe about Mary (perpetual virginity, bride of part of the Godhead, mother of us all, etc) is incorrect, wouldn’t that be dishonoring to Mary and to God, according to your logic about protestant beliefs?

 

[FabiusMaximus]

Calvin,Luther and Zwingli, The three fathers of the Reeformation each affirmed the Cathloic doctrines that Mary is the Mother of God and Perpetual Virgin.
We need to ask all protestants ,to honor Mary as much as the founders of their own tradition did .

I’d like to ask you a question:

What does it matter if Mary was a perpetual virgin or not? Does God’s decision to choose her to be the bearer of our savior, Jesus Christ seem any less miraculous and wonderful because she might have chosen to have sex after her marriage with Joseph (and of course, after the birth of Jesus)?

Of course not. I think the debate over her Perpetual Virginity is stupid.

 

[Bill_Pick]

Why do you feel the need to ask all protestant anything? Are you the log (or speck) out of the eye plucker?​

Is it honoring to believe something that is not true about a person? If what you believe about Mary (perpetual virginity, bride of part of the Godhead, mother of us all, etc) is incorrect, wouldn’t that be dishonoring to Mary and to God, according to your logic about protestant beliefs?

Why do you feel the need to ask all protestant anything? Because this is what this board is all about ashing question and not about your opinion,you need to read and see what our Lord is saying readL Lk 1016,you never like to listen so maybe thats your promlem.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

I’d like to ask you a question:

What does it matter if Mary was a perpetual virgin or not? Does God’s decision to choose her to be the bearer of our savior, Jesus Christ seem any less miraculous and wonderful because she might have chosen to have sex after her marriage with Joseph (and of course, after the birth of Jesus)?

Of course not. I think the debate over her Perpetual Virginity is stupid.

Ok, let’s not debate, but please provide us a simple answer to a simple question. If the Prostestant reformers were correct in their beliefs in leaving the Church, yet they believed in the Marian doctrines, why aren’t those beliefs still around today in Protestant circles?

 

[yellowbird]

Ok, let’s not debate, but please provide us a simple answer to a simple question. If the Prostestant reformers were correct in their beliefs in leaving the Church, yet they believed in the Marian doctrines, why aren’t those beliefs still around today in Protestant circles?

A very fair question. When I was a Protestant I believed that my church was as close to the original church from the Book of Acts as one could get. Imagine my suprise when I learned that actually MOST of my church’s teachings were developed within the past 300 years… Mary’s perpetual virginity being one.

I can appreicate why a Protestant might think, So what if she were a virgin and the reformers believed that? But honestly, doesn’t it make you sort of wonder what else has been changed or disregarded?

I don’t want somebody’s new ideas… I want the ones the Early Church, who were closest to Jesus believed. Isn’t it worth investigating what they actually believed? Trust me when I say, Mary is the tip of the iceberg.

 

[Timothy17]

If Mary is the Ark of the New Covenant, then to lose her is no less a loss than it was when the Israelites lost the Ark of the Old Covenant. Granted, the religion can and does go on; nonetheless, it hardly makes it better off because of that loss…

 

[BrianH]

The people who started the Reformation are not considered infallible, if they are even considered much at all. I think it varies depending upon whether one is talking about the German Reformation or the English Reformation in particular. It is simply I suspect a case of looking at what the Bible teaches and then what little historically reliable information from secondary sources exists as well. It is also does not impact their lives much. A Protestant who would not hear much about Mary would not really have any inclination to dig into them and what beliefs existed prior to their own lives. The Marian dogmas, and the importance of them, has always been and will remain too large of a bridge to ever really be able to see each other’s views. IMO

 

[JonNC]

Ok, let’s not debate, but please provide us a simple answer to a simple question. If the Prostestant reformers were correct in their beliefs in leaving the Church, yet they believed in the Marian doctrines, why aren’t those beliefs still around today in Protestant circles?

Those beliefs are still around today. I hold to them. The key to Luther’s (I can’t/won’t speak for other communions or their leaders) mariology is that the are adiaphora - things indifferent regarding salvation.
I see nothing wrong with the Catholic marian teachings, other than they are a required belief. For example, I belief the Mary was perpetually a virgin, my pastor believes she had other children. It is a matter of personal piety, since scripture not explicit, and does not mention it as a necessary belief for salvation.

As for Luther leaving the Catholic Church (those in communion with the Bishop of Rome), let’s not forget that he was excommunicated. It is also true that the One Holy Church is the congregation of believers, the communion of saints, in which he still is a member to this day.

Jon

 

[Dokimas]

Why do you feel the need to ask all protestant anything? Because this is what this board is all about ashing question and not about your opinion,you need to read and see what our Lord is saying readL Lk 1016,you never like to listen so maybe thats your promlem.

 

[Dokimas]

Ok, let’s not debate, but please provide us a simple answer to a simple question. If the Prostestant reformers were correct in their beliefs in leaving the Church, yet they believed in the Marian doctrines, why aren’t those beliefs still around today in Protestant circles?

The NT doesn’t seem to support the ‘Marian doctrines’ as I’ve discussed before. The NT writers didn’t seem to think such an important doctrine was important and they didn’t mention them. Leads me to think the ‘MD’ is not exaclty accurate.​

Those called the protestant reformers had their reasons for questioning the CC. Some didn’t leave but were excommunicated.

 

[adstrinity]

I’d like to ask you a question:

What does it matter if Mary was a perpetual virgin or not? Does God’s decision to choose her to be the bearer of our savior, Jesus Christ seem any less miraculous and wonderful because she might have chosen to have sex after her marriage with Joseph (and of course, after the birth of Jesus)?

YES!!! Because, if She had other children, what is so special about Jesus? If She had other children because of Joseph, why should we believe that Jesus was God when it could be He was simply a product of Joseph. If Joseph fathered other children with Mary, then it could be reasoned that he fathered Jesus as well, as some may have believed. If She had other children after Jesus, then, it could have been deducted that Our Lady & St. Joseph couldn’t control themselves during their betrothal and nothing was special about Jesus because he also fathered other childeren.

Furthermore, why would God chose to give His heart to a woman who would only use it and have chlidren with another man? Either she would be using God or be a polygamist.

It matters so much because, like sex, one is supposed to give one’s whole self to one’s spouse, fully and wholely and completely, one flesh and all that, wives obey your husbands, husbands love your wives as Christ loved the Church; by not having sex with St. Joseph, Mary is completely God’s.

Protestants: What can I do so that you will understand She is your Mother? What can I do besides fasting and prayer that will make you research this case so that God may drop the scales from your eyes and you will not be proud in your ignorance?

 

[rev_kevin]

YES!!! Because, if She had other children, what is so special about Jesus? If She had other children because of Joseph, why should we believe that Jesus was God when it could be He was simply a product of Joseph. If Joseph fathered other children with Mary, then it could be reasoned that he fathered Jesus as well, as some may have believed. If She had other children after Jesus, then, it could have been deducted that Our Lady & St. Joseph couldn’t control themselves during their betrothal and nothing was special about Jesus because he also fathered other childeren.

Furthermore, why would God chose to give His heart to a woman who would only use it and have chlidren with another man? Either she would be using God or be a polygamist.

It matters so much because, like sex, one is supposed to give one’s whole self to one’s spouse, fully and wholely and completely, one flesh and all that, wives obey your husbands, husbands love your wives as Christ loved the Church; by not having sex with St. Joseph, Mary is completely God’s.

Protestants: What can I do so that you will understand She is your Mother? What can I do besides fasting and prayer that will make you research this case so that God may drop the scales from your eyes and you will not be proud in your ignorance?

What? This sounds so far fetched. Jesus would still be special if Mary had other children. Him being the Son of God has nothing to do with his sibblings. Now if I am reading this correct you are saying that Mary is married to God and Joseph, so why would God allow her to have 2 husbands and not have sex with them? If one is to give ones whole self to ones spouse, why did Mary marry Joseph if she could not give herself completely to him like a wife is to? But Just by marring Joseph she could not give herself completely to God. So I see nothing wrong with her having sex with her earthly husband.

 

[BrianH]

YES!!! Because, if She had other children, what is so special about Jesus? If She had other children because of Joseph, why should we believe that Jesus was God when it could be He was simply a product of Joseph. If Joseph fathered other children with Mary, then it could be reasoned that he fathered Jesus as well, as some may have believed. If She had other children after Jesus, then, it could have been deducted that Our Lady & St. Joseph couldn’t control themselves during their betrothal and nothing was special about Jesus because he also fathered other childeren.

Furthermore, why would God chose to give His heart to a woman who would only use it and have chlidren with another man? Either she would be using God or be a polygamist.

It matters so much because, like sex, one is supposed to give one’s whole self to one’s spouse, fully and wholely and completely, one flesh and all that, wives obey your husbands, husbands love your wives as Christ loved the Church; by not having sex with St. Joseph, Mary is completely God’s.

Protestants: What can I do so that you will understand She is your Mother? What can I do besides fasting and prayer that will make you research this case so that God may drop the scales from your eyes and you will not be proud in your ignorance?

Jesus is special because He was born of a virgin.
People would believe what people would believe. In fact, the crowd thought he WAS the son of Joseph; he was not but they thought that.
I also agree that this whole concept of God giving his heart or polygamy is very very disconcerting to a Protestant. Mary had ONE husband. Joseph. Thats what scripture says. You are making it sound like Mary had some kind marriage to God.

 

[KathleenGee]

If Mary and Joseph were chaste and celibate, why can’t people permit them to continue to live in this state, totally for the Kingdom, and more so – for Christ’s mission!!!

Afterall, Mary and Joseph both heard at the Presentation of the Lord that a sword would pierce her heart as Jesus would be the rising of many and the fall of many…hearing such a prophecy, so sober, after such heavenly graces at the Nativity, would bear foreboding and sobriety…

How many people have had a loss of life because of the loss of their beloved children…parents carry grief their entire life…So Mary already ‘loss’ something of Jesus with those words…Mary loss a part of Jesus at His presentation…a part of HIm already left her…

It is like people are in an inferior state being celibate living for the Kingdom…as Jesus said in the Gospels.

And, the other point Bill made as another reinforced, is that the original protestant leaders had Mary…it is the breakaway Sola Scriptura here in America that has the issues with Mary.

I think it such a loss…because Mary in the communion of saints works very much to help families stay close, to support women in their femininity, and her work to make the universal believers more a family…God’s family.

Mary is the Immaculate Conception…and I found out through my pastor that this belief was held by the earliest Christians…

We should all, not just the Catholics, but all Christians need to return to our earliest roots and the Breaking of the Bread…that that a memorial and then thrown away in the garbage dump…hmmm…Mary appeared next to a garbage dump in Lourdes…

Please, people are sounding like the hopeless secularists…don’t bother teaching sex ed because they are going to do it anyway…like people can’t live on a higher moral and ascetic level of existence.

 

[Bill_Pick]

Are you saying I,m allow to talk to Protestants,is this a new rule,did you make this rule are is it for all of us.
Our enlish word ;brother; literally means from the same parents and yet we apply it to all sorts of other relantionships ;; brother in arms 'brother in Christ 'relatives, frinnda, and so on. Likewise, the Jews used this specific Greek word to refer both to bloodd-brothers as well as to other relationships (see Mt 23-8 and Acts 7-23, Consider 1 Cor 15-6 wg=here St Pauk says that Jesus appeared to more than 5 hundres ( adelphoi) at one time,Uf all 5 hundred were from the same womb then that was some miraculous mother ,The same hold true for the 120 brethren (adolphion) in Acts 1-15

 

[KathleenGee]

People say…Oh, I don’t see that in the bible…so it is not true…

What about the 2,000 people who lived and believed this…because it is a true tradition passed down from one generation to the next…and people have personally know the gifts of Mary’s work in helping Christ bring others to Him.

You don’t have a stand alone Bible…or else, you have what we see here in this country…Christians came here from foreign lands, the more they settle in, the more a number of them fell away from the scope of their ancestors’ faith…tradition lost…

Tradition is the working of the Holy Spirit with Scriptures in the way we believe, practice, and understand what it means to be in communion with the saints…

For me, the stand alone Bible is too lonely…it has no culture, no art, no liturgy, no mystery, no community, no Holy Father and Bishops, no saints, maybe one sacrament, Catholic baptism…There are those who go overboard and become so critical of Catholics to the point of condemning us. I mean there are cults that are partially founded on anti-Catholicism…Take us away, they loose part of their ‘fire’. I can go to any Catholic/Orthodox church in the world and belong. And I listen to the Word of God that builds me and the community up in the Lord through faith and reason, and not hearing every Sunday about how bad other Christians are. We can survive without others’ differences because the focus is on the People of God journeying with Christ to unite with Him some day in heaven.

Now I better get back to my Lent.
I am praying for everyone at CAF.

 

[BrianH]

Not everyone agrees on Tradition and what that means exactly. Its actually messier than scripture because we are never sure which patristic writer is speaking infallibily and when…

 

[mark_a]

bride of part of the Godhead,

Say what?

 

[lil_flower_luv]

I’d like to ask you a question:

What does it matter if Mary was a perpetual virgin or not? Does God’s decision to choose her to be the bearer of our savior, Jesus Christ seem any less miraculous and wonderful because she might have chosen to have sex after her marriage with Joseph (and of course, after the birth of Jesus)?

Of course not. I think the debate over her Perpetual Virginity is stupid.

What I don’t see is why so many non-Catholics get touchy on the topic of Mary. It always has to be a love/hate relationship with the Mother of God! God’s peace to you.