The Protestant's Virgin

[Peace-bwu]

Ricardo Gomez:

The protestant doctrines also worship a Virgin because the Church is represented by a woman through out the Bible. If we tell any protestant brother that his/her church’s doctrine is wrong, most likely they ae going to act in a defensive manner and imediately will point out their church’s doctrine as the only way to heaven. The only difference, however, is the fact that our Mother, Mary or our Church has been on earth for over two millenniums. As oppose to their Church, which is new. And the scripture says in the last days false prophets with false doctrines will apppear.

this thread needs to be put to bed. I can’t even follow along with it, it has no clear topic… the beginning topic makes no sense.

“The Protestant doctrines also worship a Virgin…” This is just a crazy statement. Catholics don’t worship a virgin or the Church (which is called the Bride of Christ.NOT Mary.) Neither do the Protestans worship their version of Church.

“Our Mother, Mary or our Church.” I am not sure whether you are calling our church “Mary” or if you are saying either Mary OR our Church. The whole topic is disturbing because it makes absolutely no sense and is inflammatory both toward Catholics (because it is incorrect ) and to Protestants (accusing them of worshiping a virgin… HUH??? Now suddenly the whole thread is a crazy mix-up of mostly ill-informed babble about who treated the Native Americans worse and Pagan holidays.

Really, I have’t seen a thread this bad for a long time.

 

[Peace-bwu]

Shlemele:

Exactly, I know according to the Catholic church Protestants are saved, but I was just trying to make the point that we get this stuff to, I can’t tell you how many times growing up in a predominately Catholic town I was told I was not going to heaven beacuse I was of the Christian religion and not Catholic like them . The only cure for it is to EDUCATE yourself in both the scriptures and in theology (and not just that of your church).

Scripture, theology, Sacred Apostolic Tradition and the Saints …they are all a part of the Chruch. If you are educating yourself on Scripture and theology, then you are educating yourself on the Church. Scripture and theology are not a “check” on the church or pitted against the Church, they are a huge part of the Church.

 

[Peace-bwu]

FuzzyBunny116:

The Catholic Church doesn’t say you have to believe in their dogma, as far as I know, to be saved. If you know that it is the Church established by Christ and leave or are not in it on the other hand…that’s another story. We believe that you must be united in the Catholic Church to be saved, but there are other ways than professing the Catholic faith. It’s something that took me a while to grasp how the concept works, but I think I get it now.

I haven’ t read a therad where so many Catholic members need a good crash course on Catechism, doctrine of the Church.

 

[RyanL]

Here, here!

 

[Cubsfan]

Semper Fi:

What are you talking about? I didn’t utilize anything except an article on Wikipedia. My point is, is that none of the so called pagan holidays that allegedly resemble Christian ones were around until Christianity so most scholars will agree that the ancient Romans probably took their dates from Christians to celebrate as an alternative to the rising Christian religion.

Semper Fi, by your monikopr I will assume you where or once was a Marine, since I am a sailor I will explain this slowly to you (just kidding). Sorry for the AD rant, however, my point is that the use of CE is because secular humanist types in academia have deemed it necessary to get rid of any mention of Jesus Christ.

 

[Semper_Fi_1]

Cubsfan:

Semper Fi, by your monikopr I will assume you where or once was a Marine, since I am a sailor I will explain this slowly to you (just kidding). Sorry for the AD rant, however, my point is that the use of CE is because secular humanist types in academia have deemed it necessary to get rid of any mention of Jesus Christ.

I know CE stands for “current era”, but I didn’t write the article, that’s why I was confused about your ranting. No problem

 

[Ricardo_Gomez]

For those who asked, the virgin mary is represented by the woman mention in chapter 12 of the book of Revelation. Could this be the reason why Her day is on Dec/12 like 12/12?

I had done some research on the topic because there are times when I am confronted by the protestant brothers and ask the question “why Catholics worship Mary”. I have to answer like “the church is represented by a woman which in turn becomes the Virgin Mary-the church-the bride or what ever your special doctrine calls it”.

TUTORING NEEDED!!

 

[Semper_Fi_1]

Ricardo Gomez:

For those who asked, the virgin mary is represented by the woman mention in chapter 12 of the book of Revelation. Could this be the reason why Her day is on Dec/12 like 12/12?

I had done some research on the topic because there are times when I am confronted by the protestant brothers and ask the question “why Catholics worship Mary”. I have to answer like “the church is represented by a woman which in turn becomes the Virgin Mary-the church-the bride or what ever your special doctrine calls it”.

TUTORING NEEDED!!

Ricardo, the simple answer is, “WE DON’T WORSHIP MARY!”

We pray to her because she is our Blessed mother and ask her to intercede for us because we are in communion with the saints (alive here on earth and the ones more alive than us in heaven).

 

[sonseeker]

Ricardo Gomez:

The protestant doctrines also worship a Virgin because the Church is represented by a woman through out the Bible.

This is just plain silly.

 

[chb03c]

I wouldn’t bother to much with this guy. He keeps PMing me trying to convert me to Catholicism. I keep trying to tell him I already am a catholic and go to church just about everyday. However he keeps ignoring that for some reason.

 

[Semper_Fi_1]

chb03c:

I wouldn’t bother to much with this guy. He keeps PMing me trying to convert me to Catholicism. I keep trying to tell him I already am a catholic and go to church just about everyday. However he keeps ignoring that for some reason.

Yeah, I kind of got a bad feeling from this guy. He shouldn’t be trying to convert anyone to Catholicism from his understanding…

 

[Ricardo_Gomez]

I Am A Mexican Catholic, And In My Culture We Worship The Virgin Mary. It Is Like A Big Celebration Known All Over The World.

When A Protestant Brother Ask Me Why Do We Worship The Virgin Mary, And If My Answer Is “we Do Not Worship The Virgin Mary”, Such An Answer Will Be Considered Plain Silly, And Far From Reality.
It Could Be A Cultural Issue, I Do Not Know. What I Know Is Our Mary Is A Strong Part Of Our Culture With Worshipping And Everything That Comes With It.

 

[Mickey]

Ricardo Gomez:

I Am A Mexican Catholic, And In My Culture We Worship The Virgin Mary. It Is Like A Big Celebration Known All Over The World.

When A Protestant Brother Ask Me Why Do We Worship The Virgin Mary, And If My Answer Is “we Do Not Worship The Virgin Mary”, Such An Answer Will Be Considered Plain Silly, And Far From Reality.

It Could Be A Cultural Issue, I Do Not Know. What I Know Is Our Mary Is A Strong Part Of Our Culture With Worshipping And Everything That Comes With It.

I recommend that you read the Catechism of the Catholic Church. To worship the Blessed Mother is not a Catholic practice–whether you are Mexican Catholic, African Catholic, etc., etc., etc…Catholics and Orthodox venerate Our Lady–there is a big difference.

 

[Shlemele]

Ricardo Gomez:

I Am A Mexican Catholic, And In My Culture We Worship The Virgin Mary. It Is Like A Big Celebration Known All Over The World.

When A Protestant Brother Ask Me Why Do We Worship The Virgin Mary, And If My Answer Is “we Do Not Worship The Virgin Mary”, Such An Answer Will Be Considered Plain Silly, And Far From Reality.

It Could Be A Cultural Issue, I Do Not Know. What I Know Is Our Mary Is A Strong Part Of Our Culture With Worshipping And Everything That Comes With It.

In the town I grew up in many had the same ideas about the saints and Mary. As a protestant can you imagine my reaction to this, not knowing the theology of the Catholic church? Anyways when i met my wife for the first time and asked about how she believed I think my face said it all when she told me she was Catholic. We have worked out a lot of things and have both had to get over some mis-conceptions (we are still working on some things but there is a light at the end of the tunnel)

I know many Mexicans, growing up most of my friends were Mexican and I can tell you there are quite a few that have this mis-conception. The tragic part is the one priest who actually educated his parish and grew the Catholic church was moved on in favor of another who reverted the church back to ignorant teachings and later went to rehab for drug abuse.

 

[Mickey]

Shlemele:

I know many Mexicans, growing up most of my friends were Mexican and I can tell you there are quite a few that have this mis-conception. The tragic part is the one priest who actually educated his parish and grew the Catholic church was moved on in favor of another who reverted the church back to ignorant teachings and later went to rehab for drug abuse.

OUCH!

 

[Walking_Home]

Please have compassion for Mr. Gomez.

Do some research on the Virgen de Guadalupe and Juan Diego.

Our Holy Mother is responsible for converting the indigenous people of Mexico to cristianity. The missionaries were making no headway in conversion until she appeared to Juan Diego so she is held in very high esteem by the catholics in Mexico. This devotion to her goes back generations. This is what he has been taught and seen. If the line that separates worshipping our Lord Jesus and venerating our Holy Mother seems to have dissappeared , then the clergy in Mexico have somehow dropped the ball. Remember to sin we must be knowledge that it is a sin.

Connie

 

[Semper_Fi_1]

Walking_Home:

Please have compassion for Mr. Gomez.

Do some research on the Virgen de Guadalupe and Juan Diego.

Our Holy Mother is responsible for converting the indigenous people of Mexico to cristianity. The missionaries were making no headway in conversion until she appeared to Juan Diego so she is held in very high esteem by the catholics in Mexico. This devotion to her goes back generations. This is what he has been taught and seen. If the line that separates worshipping our Lord Jesus and venerating our Holy Mother seems to have dissappeared , then the clergy in Mexico have somehow dropped the ball. Remember to sin we must be knowledge that it is a sin.

Connie

That’s all fine, but we must point out error when we see error when it is endagering someone’s soul and eternal life. Worshiping Mary is a grave error because only the Blessed Trinity should be worshiped - nothing else.

 

[UBERROGO]

Ricardo Gomez:

The protestant doctrines also worship a Virgin because the Church is represented by a woman through out the Bible.

Protestants don’t worship the Church they are part of it.
Ricardo Gomez:

If we tell any protestant brother that his/her church’s doctrine is wrong, most likely they ae going to act in a defensive manner and imediately will point out their church’s doctrine as the only way to heaven.

Probably will do that.
Ricardo Gomez:

The only difference, however, is the fact that our Mother, Mary or our Church has been on earth for over two millenniums. As oppose to their Church, which is new. And the scripture says in the last days false prophets with false doctrines will apppear.

I know a lot of protestants who would disagree with this one. Where is Mary at if she is on earth?
What about the Coptic Orthodox and the Greek Orthodox, are they also part of these false prophets?
Haven’t we been in the last days for the past 2000 years?
Act 2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
This was fulfilled in earlier in Acts.

I’d like to see your guys thoughts from a Catholic perspective.

 

[Ricardo_Gomez]

People, you don’t have to feel sorry for me I know what I am talking about. Take in consideration that 80% of the Mexican people is Catholic, you know how many millions of souls that is?

If there is some one to feel sorry for IS YOU, ALL OF YOU. Because you are saying that the Catholic Church betrayed us, Mexicans, what I am suppossed to make of that? Perhaps, all of you agree with the Protestant Brothers, our Catholic Church is not the real Church. IS THAT WHAT YOU ARE SAYING? 

Or maybe you do not know how to be a Catholic? Perhaps, all of you never read Revelation 12, and if you did, the spirtual content of it never hit you!!!!!!!

 

[Shlemele]

The term “coat-tail Catholic” seems to come to mind here (same goes for Protestant for that matter). I cringe when I think about how many times I asked someone if they were Catholic and they responded with “I’m Mexican arn’t I?”. While it’s all fine and grand that so many claim to be Catholic, the fact of the matter is that if you are worshiping Mary as a God then guess what, you are going AGAINST the church you claim to be a part of. I know that there are many that doubtless go to mass and do all the things that Good Catholics should but without an understanding of the most basic instructions of the Bible and your church what good is it? I have heard you quote Revelations 12 like mad (a problematic book for any kind of interpetation and comming from a protestant you better believe it ), so here it is…

13Now when the dragon saw that he had been cast to the earth, he persecuted the woman who gave birth to the male Child. 14But the woman was given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness to her place, where she is nourished for a time and times and half a time, from the presence of the serpent. 15So the serpent spewed water out of his mouth like a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away by the flood. 16But the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened its mouth and swallowed up the flood which the dragon had spewed out of his mouth. 17And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to make war with the rest of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.** **

Ok so we have the figure of a Woman and her offspring being persicuted by the beast… there is a ton of abstract symbolism in here though that makes any direct refrences a bit problematic. Might you have a point here, certanly but I think it is a BIG stretch and certanly one that takes several jumps in logic. Let me try to be more consise in my choice of texts…

3"You shall have no other gods before Me.

We only get one God, that is the program. Be you Protestant, Catholic, or Anababtist that is what your church believes.