The Protestant's Virgin

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Ricardo Gomez:
People, you don’t have to feel sorry for me I know what I am talking about. Take in consideration that 80% of the Mexican people is Catholic, you know how many millions of souls that is?

If there is some one to feel sorry for IS YOU, ALL OF YOU. Because you are saying that the Catholic Church betrayed us, Mexicans, what I am suppossed to make of that? Perhaps, all of you agree with the Protestant Brothers, our Catholic Church is not the real Church. IS THAT WHAT YOU ARE SAYING?

Or maybe you do not know how to be a Catholic? Perhaps, all of you never read Revelation 12, and if you did, the spirtual content of it never hit you!!!
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Ricardo, you aren’t Catholic if you worship Mary. You are going against Jesus and the Church teachings by having false Gods before Him. Mary is a Saint, she is our Holy Mother, she is not GOD though. She didn’t create you or me, she didn’t save you or me, it was Jesus Christ who died for the sins of all mankind brother. I feel that when you worship Mary you are actually insulting her because that is not the reason she was put on this earth. God selected HER to bare His son, Our Lord, Jesus Christ.

Ricardo, please go pick up a copy of the Catechism and read what it has to say about our Blessed Mother.http://www.vatican.va/archive/catechism/p123a9p6.htm
 
Ricardo Gomez:
Because you are saying that the Catholic Church betrayed us, Mexicans, what I am suppossed to make of that?
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The Church did not betray you, but those responsible for teaching you correct doctrine have failed. 😦
 
Ricardo Gomez:
TUTORING NEEDED!!
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Then you came to the right place! 🙂

I used to go off tremendously because people didn’t agree with me, and I’ve found that even though I still don’t agree with them, they have taught me volumes. I have typically been much more interested in the mystical aspects of Christ and inner-focused prayer such as contemplative prayer, than most apologists who know dogma and Church teachings way better than I ever knew, even though I’ve read the Bible (esp. NT) quite a bit.

Welcome to the board. :tiphat:

Alan
 
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chb03c:
I wouldn’t bother to much with this guy. He keeps PMing me trying to convert me to Catholicism. I keep trying to tell him I already am a catholic and go to church just about everyday. However he keeps ignoring that for some reason.
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if ricardo keeps posting things like these and PM a lot of you guys i am afraid some will run FROM the CC
 
Ricardo’s View Is Not The View Of All Mexicans And Not Mine Either.

Just Tell Me Something Ricardo: When Does The Church Betray Mexico??? I Just Dont Get It.

And As A Mexican I Told You Love Mary With All Your Heart, But Never Worship Her (honor Yes, Worship No)
 
What about the Coptic Orthodox and the Greek Orthodox, are they also part of these false prophets?
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What exactly is meant by this??

God Bless,
Elizabeth
 
miguel delgado:
if ricardo keeps posting things like these and PM a lot of you guys i am afraid some will run FROM the CC
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Maybe he’s really a terrorist trying to get us to break ranks by turning us against each other! :hmmm:

Just kidding! 😛

Or am I? :confused:

TUTORING NEEDED! :whistle:

Alan
 
Ricardo:

please explain your conection between Our Lady Of Guadalupe feast day (dec 12) and revelation chapter 12 (12-12-12)
 
Hey, my friend that explanation is not mine I did not come with it, I think it was the Church leaders of ancient times. Perhaps, one must have some spiritual growth to understand it.
 
Ricardo Gomez:
Hey, my friend that explanation is not mine I did not come with it, I think it was the Church leaders of ancient times. Perhaps, one must have some spiritual growth to understand it.
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Ricardo, the Church never worshiped Mary. Several protestants claim that we worship the Blessed Mother as a way to cause division between us and mock the Church and you are perpetuating the myth that we worship her. If this is what your Priest is teaching you (which I doubt), then he is really misguided and is misguiding you. When you say stuff like that, it is insulting the Blessed Mother because she knows she is not God.
 
Semper Fi, our church does worship mary, and more. Do some research in Las Mandas, is a practice done in all over the Mexican territory. What they do is the believer will ask for a favor-miracle to the Virgin Mary, and if this so call favor comes true, the believer will walk in his/her knees for miles. It does not matter if there is blood, or any other damage to the knees. Now if that is not worship, I just do not what is. By the way, that is done on Dec/12.

Also, The Protestant’s Virgin is not so much about disagreement or disscussion. Its more about faith. Let’s take for example the number one anti-catholic religion: luzdelmundo.net. This doctrine is based on criticism. Criticism directed to our Catholic doctrine. I had the opportunity to share numerous e-mails with one of the main leaders, Carlos Montemayor or camonte102@aol.com

I was interested in this doctrine because I wanted to know their understanding on the book of Revelation. But when I asked him about the United Nations and the book of Revelation, he answered me with “well, the nations of the world are coming together under one doctrine, ours. And the only one who could give any interpretation on the Bible is our leader, the chosen one, Samuel Joaquin”

If the church is represented by the woman mention on chapter 12 of the book of Revelation, according to luzdelmundo.net, this woman is their church, right?
 
Ricardo Gomez:
Semper Fi, our church does worship Mary,** and more**.
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If by definition you mean Your church (separate from the Roman Catholic church) what you are saying is that the Mexican church is separate from the other Catholic churches across the world. I KNOW that is not the case. And what is meant with the “and more”? Are there other saints that you worship? I’m by no means Catholic but even I know that if you are admitting to worshiping anyone other than God (kinds skipped over the graven image quote I noticed) you are practicing Idolatry.
Now if that is not worship, I just do not what is.
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People do strange things don’t they? I once went to get my wife a smoothie just after she had painted my nails blue, in South West Fresno CA (very rough neighborhood, and I got several stares by some very intimidating, very large and rough looking guys). Some people get tattoos or make great sacrifices for their loved ones. That is called devotion, not worship. If someone travels for miles on their knees and worships Mary for some good fortune they have experienced I don’t think that the gifts come from God. I woul even go so far to say as it may be satin looking to deceive people into worshiping someone other than God. You want to know why some people run from the Catholic church, well this would have sent me sprinting!
And the only one who could give any interpretation on the Bible is our leader, the chosen one, Samuel Joaquin
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Sounds fishy to me. Any protestant church I have heard of doesn’t limit who can interpret the bible. We have seminaries that instruct and pastors who teach but NOBODY has the right to claim sole authority on interpretation of the bible (calm down all, I’m talking for us protestants here 😛 ). I have never heard of the guy you are talking about so I have no idea what he is teaching, to be honest sounds a bit cultish to me but I can’t read most of the site so I can’t say for sure.
If the church is represented by the woman mention on chapter 12 of the book of Revelation, according to luzdelmundo.net, this woman is their church, right?
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Again this is revelation we are talking about. It is abstract so the woman might mean any manner of things. One thing for sure though if you are basing so much theology on this when why is you only defense that it falls on 12/12? I think the universal reaction to this has been “so what?” allow me to put this in perspective;
1 When He had come down from the mountain, great multitudes followed Him.
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This is Matt. 8:1, and 8/1 is my birthday! this must mean that I need to go to a mountain and great magnitudes will follow me so I must be some kind of savior! The logic just isn’t there!

In conclusion Ricardo what you are talking about isn’t faith, it’s misguided faith. If you believe that your culture holds sway over God you are gravely mistaken. God created Mary not vice-versa, we worship the creator and not the created. If you were taught to worship Mary by a priest then go to another parish. (Geez you got the Protestant telling people to go to parishes, must really be serious! 😛 )

Catholics and Protestants may not agree on everything but one thing that is a non-negotiable for all is the fact that there is ONE God and he only should be worshiped.
 
The key here is what the word “worship” represents.

Catholics know that there is a divine worship - **latria ** - due only to God. This is stated throughout Catholic teaching.

There are other forms of devotion - **dulia ** - due to the saints, and **hyper-dulia ** - worthy of Mary.

The problem here seems to be what the word “worship” represents, since it has **changed in meaning ** over the past century or so. We still talk of “His Worship” the mayor, not because we are treating him as God, but because we re giving him honour and respect. This older, wider, meaning of the word is what confuses some people today, when the meaning has narrowed to “Worship only due to God.”

So Catholics can sing the old hymn “Mary Immaculate” which contains the line

Sinners, we worship thy sinless perfection,

Knowing that it means “honour” or “reverence”, but outsiders might get the wrong idea.
 
I AM MEXICAN AND I NEVER DO OR DID A “MANDA”, THIS IS MY POST IN OTHER THREAD: I THINK WITH THIS IS ALL EXPLAIN. ONE MANDA I REMEBER WAS OF A TEACHER OF MINE WHO ASK OUR LADY TO HEAL HIS DAUGHTER AND IN RETURN HE WILL DRESS HIS DAUGTER WITH OUR LADY OF GUADALUPE DRESS, CAN YOU UNDERSTAND THAT???

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http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon1.gif Re: curanderos, healers, guerisseurs
hola amigos!!!

i dont know in the U.S. , but here in Mexico the curanderos and the egg thing and others are so powerfull because people dont know much of the CC (let me explain: people dont go to mass, but in dec 12 our lady of Guadalupe day, MAN you cant go to the basilica because its jam, 1000s of people, and some NEVER GO TO MASS, but that day they must go to the basilica or it is a sin)
what i try to say is this: if you let the curanderos or the tarot to influence you you will surely drift away from the church, i have seen that happen a lot, I WILL PRAY FOR YOU AND GOOD LUCK.
:twocents: here are my 2 cents even if you dont want them.:bigyikes:

miguel delgadoView Public ProfileSend a private message to miguel delgadoSend email to miguel delgadoVisit miguel delgado’s homepage!Find all posts by miguel delgadoAdd miguel delgado to Your Buddy List
 
Ricardo Gomez:
Semper Fi, our church does worship mary, and more. Do some research in Las Mandas, is a practice done in all over the Mexican territory. What they do is the believer will ask for a favor-miracle to the Virgin Mary, and if this so call favor comes true, the believer will walk in his/her knees for miles. It does not matter if there is blood, or any other damage to the knees. Now if that is not worship, I just do not what is. By the way, that is done on Dec/12.

I PREFER TO GO TO MASS OR PRAY THE ROSARY

Also, The Protestant’s Virgin is not so much about disagreement or disscussion. Its more about faith. Let’s take for example the number one anti-catholic religion: luzdelmundo.net. This doctrine is based on criticism. Criticism directed to our Catholic doctrine. I had the opportunity to share numerous e-mails with one of the main leaders, Carlos Montemayor or camonte102@aol.com

I was interested in this doctrine because I wanted to know their understanding on the book of Revelation. But when I asked him about the United Nations and the book of Revelation, he answered me with “well, the nations of the world are coming together under one doctrine, ours. And the only one who could give any interpretation on the Bible is our leader, the chosen one, Samuel Joaquin”

If the church is represented by the woman mention on chapter 12 of the book of Revelation, according to luzdelmundo.net, this woman is their church, right?
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PLEASE EXPLAIN WHAT DOES THIS REVELATION CHAPTER 12 MEANS PLEASEEEEEEE

Guys, the way i see it this guy has been turn to a church that brands itself catholic and only draws people away from the true catholisism.
 
Ricardo Gomez:
Semper Fi, our church does worship mary, and more.
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I wonder if we have an anti-Catholic spy here–trying to cause chaos! :bigyikes:
 
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Shlemele:
If by definition you mean Your church (separate from the Roman Catholic church) what you are saying is that the Mexican church is separate from the other Catholic churches across the world. I KNOW that is not the case. And what is meant with the “and more”? Are there other saints that you worship? I’m by no means Catholic but even I know that if you are admitting to worshiping anyone other than God (kinds skipped over the graven image quote I noticed) you are practicing Idolatry.

People do strange things don’t they? I once went to get my wife a smoothie just after she had painted my nails blue, in South West Fresno CA (very rough neighborhood, and I got several stares by some very intimidating, very large and rough looking guys). Some people get tattoos or make great sacrifices for their loved ones. That is called devotion, not worship. If someone travels for miles on their knees and worships Mary for some good fortune they have experienced I don’t think that the gifts come from God. I woul even go so far to say as it may be satin looking to deceive people into worshiping someone other than God. You want to know why some people run from the Catholic church, well this would have sent me sprinting!

Sounds fishy to me. Any protestant church I have heard of doesn’t limit who can interpret the bible. We have seminaries that instruct and pastors who teach but NOBODY has the right to claim sole authority on interpretation of the bible (calm down all, I’m talking for us protestants here 😛 ). I have never heard of the guy you are talking about so I have no idea what he is teaching, to be honest sounds a bit cultish to me but I can’t read most of the site so I can’t say for sure.

Again this is revelation we are talking about. It is abstract so the woman might mean any manner of things. One thing for sure though if you are basing so much theology on this when why is you only defense that it falls on 12/12? I think the universal reaction to this has been “so what?” allow me to put this in perspective;

This is Matt. 8:1, and 8/1 is my birthday! this must mean that I need to go to a mountain and great magnitudes will follow me so I must be some kind of savior! The logic just isn’t there!

In conclusion Ricardo what you are talking about isn’t faith, it’s misguided faith. If you believe that your culture holds sway over God you are gravely mistaken. God created Mary not vice-versa, we worship the creator and not the created. If you were taught to worship Mary by a priest then go to another parish. (Geez you got the Protestant telling people to go to parishes, must really be serious! 😛 )

Catholics and Protestants may not agree on everything but one thing that is a non-negotiable for all is the fact that there is ONE God and he only should be worshiped.
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Again this is revelation we are talking about. If you are basing so much theology on this…The universal reaction has been so what? (QUOTE)

We are talking your birthday? Because my birthday is on 6/6/1966 What does this mean? Oh! maybe since there is 1and then 9 it could be that I am living the Dark Millennium. Don’t you think so?

I spend more of my time talking to protestants than going to church. Catholic church that is. And you know what, and how I worship God? Through Christ. I try very hard to apply to my life what Christ came and taught. A human won’t understand its position on earth until he/she comes to Christ. That was one of themes John Paul had for his PhD. And it makes a lot of sense to me since Christ said only through him we could know God.

I am currently doing a couple of researches on the Lost Tribes of Israel along with Chapter 11 Rev. Perhaps, you could do some research on Chapter 12 and the Virgin Mary for you to understand it.

In Los Angeles area there this priest call Juan Rivas. This guy is well known within the Catholic community. He came out on tv, I think it was back on 1997. It was like a debate because the tv station had a protestant brother named Jose A Maldonado from Centro Cristiano Misionero Ph # (323) 585- 6026, this protestant brother, who doesn’t like to be call protestant, asked Mr Rivas " where in the bible is mary mentioned as divine". Mr Rivas answered “Chapter 12 of the book of Revelation”. To me is logical and simple, I might have a different opinion from yours since I study theology with a specific interest in prophecy. But you could call mr Rivas at (626) 575 4747 is a school number, and the school is call ESCUELA DE LA FE. Like I said before this priest is well known with in the community, and some of the material used in this school is prepared by him. I hope you can see that my information is accurate and verifiable because I know what I am talking about, and I hope/pray you could do the same .
 
miguel delgado:
PLEASE EXPLAIN WHAT DOES THIS REVELATION CHAPTER 12 MEANS PLEASEEEEEEE

Guys, the way i see it this guy has been turn to a church that brands itself catholic and only draws people away from the true catholisism.
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Ok, I see you made your conclusion. Usually it takes months or perhaps years to figured that out, but since you’re so knowlegeable you made it quick. One thing though, I AM NOT GOING TO DO YOUR HOME WORK!!!
 
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Axion:
The key here is what the word “worship” represents.

Catholics know that there is a divine worship - **latria ** - due only to God. This is stated throughout Catholic teaching.

There are other forms of devotion - **dulia ** - due to the saints, and **hyper-dulia ** - worthy of Mary.

The problem here seems to be what the word “worship” represents, since it has **changed in meaning ** over the past century or so. We still talk of “His Worship” the mayor, not because we are treating him as God, but because we re giving him honour and respect. This older, wider, meaning of the word is what confuses some people today, when the meaning has narrowed to “Worship only due to God.”

So Catholics can sing the old hymn “Mary Immaculate” which contains the line

Sinners, we worship thy sinless perfection,

Knowing that it means “honour” or “reverence”, but outsiders might get the wrong idea.
Click to expand...
You got a point there body.
 
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