The psychology of being "saved"

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keepitreal

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Next to the gym I work out at, is a fairly large “Cornerstone” Church. Every Wednesday and Sunday it is so packed, it’s hard to find parking at the gym. They always play loud “upbeat” “joyous’, “:celebratory” and “exciting” type of music from loud speakers so they all could hear for all around the immediate area.
When I went to their website to see what they believed in, I found out why all the “excitement” and “celebration”. They were all “saved”. The espoused the “once saved always saved” doctrine. This was the reason for all the celebration. They all were going straight to heaven when they died. The “fight” or “struggle” was over. Thet ARE saved, and there is nothing thet are anyone could do to prevent them from reigning with the angel’s and saints when they die. So, every Wednesday and Sunday, whet they were having was basically a “mission accomplished” party, while waiting to go to heaven.
My question is how does on “fight” this as a Catholic? Do we tell them, or drag them from their party and say, “hey buddy” stop the celebration!” They would look at you like you’re nuts.
 
keepitreal said:
Next to the gym I work out at, is a fairly large “Cornerstone” Church. Every Wednesday and Sunday it is so packed, it’s hard to find parking at the gym. They always play loud “upbeat” “joyous’, “:celebratory” and “exciting” type of music from loud speakers so they all could hear for all around the immediate area.
When I went to their website to see what they believed in, I found out why all the “excitement” and “celebration”. They were all “saved”. The espoused the “once saved always saved” doctrine. This was the reason for all the celebration. They all were going straight to heaven when they died. The “fight” or “struggle” was over. Thet ARE saved, and there is nothing thet are anyone could do to prevent them from reigning with the angel’s and saints when they die. So, every Wednesday and Sunday, whet they were having was basically a “mission accomplished” party, while waiting to go to heaven.
My question is how does on “fight” this as a Catholic? Do we tell them, or drag them from their party and say, “hey buddy” stop the celebration!” They would look at you like you’re nuts.
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Jesus Christ says opposing sentences in the Gospels. But I take this today: “Those who are not against us, are in our favor” and the Apostles said: “Hey, there is somebody healing in Your name” and Jesus said no problem at all.

I music and shouts make them come to Jesus, ok.

They should have more? Right. Let’s do whatever we can to bring them to the Catholic churc.
 
I would not worry about the 500 or so people that go to Cornerstone.
What about the thousands and thousands who go…nowhere?🤷
 
keepitreal said:
Next to the gym I work out at, is a fairly large “Cornerstone” Church. Every Wednesday and Sunday it is so packed, it’s hard to find parking at the gym. They always play loud “upbeat” “joyous’, “:celebratory” and “exciting” type of music from loud speakers so they all could hear for all around the immediate area.
When I went to their website to see what they believed in, I found out why all the “excitement” and “celebration”. They were all “saved”. The espoused the “once saved always saved” doctrine. This was the reason for all the celebration. They all were going straight to heaven when they died. The “fight” or “struggle” was over. Thet ARE saved, and there is nothing thet are anyone could do to prevent them from reigning with the angel’s and saints when they die. So, every Wednesday and Sunday, whet they were having was basically a “mission accomplished” party, while waiting to go to heaven.
My question is how does on “fight” this as a Catholic? Do we tell them, or drag them from their party and say, “hey buddy” stop the celebration!” They would look at you like you’re nuts.
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There is no shorcut to being saved; it is a wrong notion; one has to do good deeds and worship the Creator God, and seek forgiveness of one’s sins to be saved. Jesus and Mary did the same.
 
keepitreal said:
Next to the gym I work out at, is a fairly large “Cornerstone” Church. Every Wednesday and Sunday it is so packed, it’s hard to find parking at the gym. They always play loud “upbeat” “joyous’, “:celebratory” and “exciting” type of music from loud speakers so they all could hear for all around the immediate area.
When I went to their website to see what they believed in, I found out why all the “excitement” and “celebration”. They were all “saved”. The espoused the “once saved always saved” doctrine. This was the reason for all the celebration. They all were going straight to heaven when they died. The “fight” or “struggle” was over. Thet ARE saved, and there is nothing thet are anyone could do to prevent them from reigning with the angel’s and saints when they die. So, every Wednesday and Sunday, whet they were having was basically a “mission accomplished” party, while waiting to go to heaven.
My question is how does on “fight” this as a Catholic? Do we tell them, or drag them from their party and say, “hey buddy” stop the celebration!” They would look at you like you’re nuts.
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Sounds like you’re looking down at Whoville from the mountain. 🙂

Why not go in and see what they’re singing about?

Fah who for-aze, Dah who dor-aze…

Your friend
Sufjon
 
keepitreal said:
Next to the gym I work out at, is a fairly large “Cornerstone” Church. Every Wednesday and Sunday it is so packed, it’s hard to find parking at the gym. They always play loud “upbeat” “joyous’, “:celebratory” and “exciting” type of music from loud speakers so they all could hear for all around the immediate area.
When I went to their website to see what they believed in, I found out why all the “excitement” and “celebration”. They were all “saved”. The espoused the “once saved always saved” doctrine. This was the reason for all the celebration. They all were going straight to heaven when they died. The “fight” or “struggle” was over. Thet ARE saved, and there is nothing thet are anyone could do to prevent them from reigning with the angel’s and saints when they die. So, every Wednesday and Sunday, whet they were having was basically a “mission accomplished” party, while waiting to go to heaven.
My question is how does on “fight” this as a Catholic? Do we tell them, or drag them from their party and say, “hey buddy” stop the celebration!” They would look at you like you’re nuts.
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Your post is the Psychology of being saved. Not sure what that means. Your question is about a particular Church. You ask about fighting it. In my experience you are asking them to stop being happy. It has less to do with OSAS then joy. Something is bringing them joy. It may be one of many things and there is no way to know without asking. It is rarely one thing.

I have had one on one conversations with a junior pastor fresh from seminary. A died in the wool dispensationalist. He went to Cornerstone. There is no way to know what drives anyone person. He was able to speak to me and I was able to hold my own with him and discuss and debate. I even took him to a Byzantine Church service. I don’t know what that may mean in his life. He is still a junior pastor.

The only thing you can do is engage someone one on one and share what you know and ask what they know. You will probably be invited to their Church.

You may visit and find that the music is good, the crowd is young and there are lots of activities going on that people are involved in socially.

You don’t fight this. You thank God that you can talk to someone that you don’t have to prove that the Bible is the Word of God, you don’t have to prove the Trinity, you don’t have to prove Jesus died for us and more. Their teachings as you know emanate from Catholic and in that regard know the 4 basic differences.
  1. Church Authority
  2. Sola Fide
  3. Sola Scriptura
  4. Extrinsic Justification
Knowing this you can dialogue successfully.👍
 
So is the moral of the story, exercise your mind and your body? 😃 Surely the problem isn’t parking space’s and those being happy and singing after using those parking space’s? Maybe you should get to the gym earlier or chose an alternative time? This seems to be disturbing your state of well being. I’ll bet you get a better work-out as a result? 😃 So their being happy is causing you to be unhappy?

“Whoville from the mountain”…funny

Peace
 
Serious Question: Why do you suppose Catholics play music and sing at mass?
 
FaithfulAndTrue said:
Serious Question: Why do you suppose Catholics play music and sing at mass?
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I suppose that would entail an understanding of the history of music. I suppose that would also entail an understanding of the evolution of song as it parallels music.:confused:

It would then require an understanding of the mass through time.:confused:

All that being said, it is about moving your body, your mouth, engaging your vision, auditory, kinesthetic and all other parts of your created self to give thanks for being able to have them and move them…👍
 
The Jews also had their chants and development of music in the synagogue…

There psalms that are full of joy and praise in the Lord…David even danced before the Lord…

‘Let us rejoice and be glad, for today is the day the Lord has made!’

The One True God brings joy to the heart of men who follow and obey Him. He is the rock Who saves us.

And when we sing, we pray twice! Halleluia!
 
keepitreal said:
When I went to their website to see what they believed in, I found out why all the “excitement” and “celebration”. They were all “saved”. The espoused the “once saved always saved” doctrine. This was the reason for all the celebration. They all were going straight to heaven when they died. The “fight” or “struggle” was over.
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For the vast majority of OSAS, they don’t believe “the struggle is over”. Though they do believe in final perseverance (they will undoubtedly go to heaven" they still believe they must work our their sanctification (becoming holy) in this life. The more educated ones believe and practice that they are to bear the fruit that befits repentance, and obey Christ in all things.
keepitreal said:
Thet ARE saved, and there is nothing thet are anyone could do to prevent them from reigning with the angel’s and saints when they die. So, every Wednesday and Sunday, whet they were having was basically a “mission accomplished” party, while waiting to go to heaven.
My question is how does on “fight” this as a Catholic? Do we tell them, or drag them from their party and say, “hey buddy” stop the celebration!" They would look at you like you’re nuts.
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I agree with another poster (can’t remember who) above that said something along the lines of why “fight”? They are indulging themselves in emotionalism about their belief of eternal status.

The best time to reach an OSAS is when they have an existential experience of loss and failure to celebrate. When the purpose and meaning of suffering cannot be incorporated, eventually the facade will fall through.

It is better to spend one’s time on those who have not met Christ at all.
 
CopticChristian said:
I suppose that would entail an understanding of the history of music. I suppose that would also entail an understanding of the evolution of song as it parallels music.:confused:

It would then require an understanding of the mass through time.:confused:

All that being said, it is about moving your body, your mouth, engaging your vision, auditory, kinesthetic and all other parts of your created self to give thanks for being able to have them and move them…👍
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I would say that it is more about the last thing you mentioned: giving thanks and glory to God. After all, the Gloria is sung at every mass. You don’t need to know the history of music, the mass, or the song to know the words and understand their meaning.

IMO (I’ve never been to a Cornerstone church), it seems far more plausible that they were singing for the glory of God rather than celebrating a “mission accomplished” party of doctrine.
 
Read Tom Nash’s book, the ‘Biblical Roots of the Mass’…
 
FaithfulAndTrue said:
I would say that it is more about the last thing you mentioned: giving thanks and glory to God. After all, the Gloria is sung at every mass. You don’t need to know the history of music, the mass, or the song to know the words and understand their meaning.

IMO (I’ve never been to a Cornerstone church), it seems far more plausible that they were singing for the glory of God rather than celebrating a “mission accomplished” party of doctrine.
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For OSAS, there is no separation between the two. We are saved by his mercy, for His Glory. He saves us for Himself, and to magnify His name in all the earth. Therefore, when our salvatoin is acquired, all the angels in heaven sing to the glory of His name. 👍
 
keepitreal said:
Next to the gym I work out at, is a fairly large “Cornerstone” Church. Every Wednesday and Sunday it is so packed, it’s hard to find parking at the gym. They always play loud “upbeat” “joyous’, “:celebratory” and “exciting” type of music from loud speakers so they all could hear for all around the immediate area.
When I went to their website to see what they believed in, I found out why all the “excitement” and “celebration”. They were all “saved”. The espoused the “once saved always saved” doctrine. This was the reason for all the celebration. They all were going straight to heaven when they died. The “fight” or “struggle” was over. Thet ARE saved, and there is nothing thet are anyone could do to prevent them from reigning with the angel’s and saints when they die. So, every Wednesday and Sunday, whet they were having was basically a “mission accomplished” party, while waiting to go to heaven.
My question is how does on “fight” this as a Catholic? Do we tell them, or drag them from their party and say, “hey buddy” stop the celebration!” They would look at you like you’re nuts.
Click to expand...
While no one can pass judgment on the joy of another, your question about the psychology of being saved brings to my mind the difference between euphoric pleasure, a more carnal enjoyment, and true joy, a more spiritual fulfillment. Dancing and singing and holding hands and flat out revelry are, in my opinion, attempts to “force” spiritual joy by indulging the body in ways that approach carnal passion. Very opposite the seasonally appropriate Catholic means of fasting and denial, and solemn prayer.

Since joy is a foretaste of heaven, it must (in my opinion) be distinguished from pleasure that is and can be illicitly forced. Again, no judgment on others’ ways of happiness–lest I condemn half the world and myself in the same breath.

But really, such a psychology is likely to stem from either a life of prior excessive indulgence in vices and numbness to the focused joy of the indwelling spirit, the Holy Spirit; or else stems from prior deprivation of true love, which would have united a person to form a family before involvement in such a group. Either way, as some of the thread responses indicate, it is better that Jesus’ Church, which in Paul’s gospel is “all things to all people,” is the one for whose sake these people are attempting to force the spirit into their hearts. True, Catholics know from our mass that “equality with God was not something to be grasped” (Philippians 2:6): but yet, there is a kind of warmth in what some of these folks, zealously uninstructed in the way “letting go”, will try to do to attain or grasp equality with God. In my opinion, it is not much different than when another kind of psychologist says “It’s all about self esteem, loving yourself, having self (confidence), etc.”

When confronted with such situations, I might consciously meditate on the Acts of the Apostles. In that book of true friendship, of the earliest church it was said: “But if it be of God, you cannot overthrow it, lest perhaps you be found even to fight against God. And they consented to him.” (Acts 5:39).

It has been difficult for me to accept the divisions of the church and thus the idea of salvation outside our given Rite; but the reality seems to be, there are many cases where it is possible with the help of our prayers.
 
The catholic penecostal movement has this element in it. This is not an “only” thing, but
as I understand, there is some of that in it.
 
I am very experienced having close friends who became charismatic Catholics. They had to depend on the Holy Spirit almost every day to make a decision. My pastor told us 160 charismatics left the Catholic Church because it was not fulfilling their needs. It appeared more and more to me an emotion based perspective of faith.
 
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