The Purpose of Animals

[Shakuhachi]

I lean toward Veganism for all sorts of reasons from health to compassion for the animals. When I share my views I often hear religious people tell me that God created them for human use. That sounds too anthropocentric to me, as if all things were created just for humans and have no innate God given value. It seems to me that all creation and all creatures give glory to God and that is their purpose… to give glory to God simply by being as God created them to be regardless of their usefulness or hindrance for human well being.

I was wondering how many here feel that animals were created mainly for humans to eat.

 

[Xanthippe_Voorhees]

I lean toward Veganism for all sorts of reasons from health to compassion for the animals. When I share my views I often hear religious people tell me that God created them for human use. That sounds too anthropocentric to me, as if all things were created just for humans and have no innate God given value. It seems to me that all creation and all creatures give glory to God and that is their purpose… to give glory to God simply by being as God created them to be regardless of their usefulness or hindrance for human well being.

I was wondering how many here feel that animals were created mainly for humans to eat.

I think your view is one we would have had pre-fall. However, human bodies have clearly developed in a way that meat-eating is important to our health. There are ways to live as a vegan, however, they often require full knowledge of plants and ability to consume synthetic vitamins to make up what is lacking.

Our teeth, our metabolism, and our overall health make animals a go-to for us. It is not unreasonable, therefore, to surmise that God created animals for our needs. It is no surprise that animals provide for us many things that cannot be easily copied by plant life alone. Lets be real, it’s only in modern times that we can be vegan and not suffer from nutrition based ailments.

I don’t think it’s that God created animals to be consumed, rather, God ensured that some animals would be easily consumable to meet our needs post-fall.

 

[Greenfields]

I love and appreciate the poultry I raise ,I also thank God for the gift of the ones I use to consume .

 

[Shakuhachi]

The only vitamine we need to supplement is B12. But yes, knowledge and care of what is eaten is very important, But that should be true of even meat eaters.

Meat eating as an aspect of our fallen nature. Hmmm. It does kind of feel that way to me.

 

[Saxum]

Meat eating as an aspect of our fallen nature. Hmmm. It does kind of feel that way to me.

Our Lord ate meat and he was free from original sin.

 

[Xanthippe_Voorhees]

Not exactly.

You have Vitamin A which can only be found in animal products—although you can gain the benefits by ingesting 6x the amount of beta carotene.

Vitamin D is another, and while you can synthesize it from the sun it’s near impossible to get 15 minutes of direct sun exposure in many places in the world.

Complete protein with amino acids are only available from meat, and while you can get protein from veggies, it’s much more difficult and requires much higher consumption levels while still lacking amino acids. Eating lentils with grains can help make a complete protein, but you have to do so carefully.

Zinc is another one–found in nature but very difficult to get.

Much of the diet then relies on soy and heavily weighs on the ability to import products and get them out of season to make up for what meat/eggs/dairy have. So it’s not as simple as no B12…but rather a much more complex decision with much awareness needed to remain healthy.

 

[Xanthippe_Voorhees]

Shakuhachi:

Meat eating as an aspect of our fallen nature. Hmmm. It does kind of feel that way to me.

Our Lord ate meat and he was free from original sin.

He took on our fallen nature and our fragile, human bodies. Therefore, he was subject to all the things that we have been since the fall when it comes to staying healthy.

 

[Saxum]

He took on our fallen nature and our fragile, human bodies. Therefore, he was subject to all the things that we have been since the fall when it comes to staying healthy.

Our Lord did not have a fallen nature. He was not born in a state of original sin. He ate meat and that demonstrates that its fine to eat meat.

 

[Xanthippe_Voorhees]

Xanthippe:

He took on our fallen nature and our fragile, human bodies. Therefore, he was subject to all the things that we have been since the fall when it comes to staying healthy.

Our Lord did not have a fallen nature. He was not born in a state of original sin. He ate meat and that demonstrates that its fine to eat meat.

He took upon Himself our fallen bodies. His “personhood” remained divine and sinless. He was subject to the same laws of gravity, laws of death and suffering, laws of bodily health that we were subject to since the fall of man.

It has been reasonably argued by theologians that even animals would not need to kill each other for food before the fall. If even animals would not, than humans would not. One of the things that Jesus’ sacrifice did was to stop the bloody sacrifice of animals in repentance for sin. It is clear that those animal sacrifices were the result of God finding a way around our sinful nature. Eating meat is just the same. It is necessary because we are fallen.

 

[Saxum]

Eating meat is just the same. It is necessary because we are fallen.

Thanks for explaining this to me. It’s not something I’ve ever thought about. I guess I’ve always viewed eating meat as natural and not remotely connected to original sin; but it makes sense because Genesis says that our original food was fruit and vegetables.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

I have never thought of meat eating as sinful. I was made to be an omnivore the same as how my cats were made to be carnivores. I do not eat meat every day, and from an animal rights perspective I wish I could just skip it constantly, but I have anemia and metabolic conditions that would be very difficult and impractical to manage without eating some meat from time to time. Certain vegetables and plant foods are high in iron, but the quantities I would have to consume would be large, and that would not address my metabolic needs. So, I eat some meat and like the Native Americans I give thanks for having it and try to honor the gift of having it by not being wasteful with it.

 

[Shakuhachi]

Thank you for your interest. A multiple vitamin is probably good for all of us. I take one. Your concerns are pretty much on target but for those desiring to go plant based there are options.

“But for vegans who are taking vitamin D2 pills on a daily basis—in amounts close to the RDA of 600 IUs—this plant-derived form of the vitamin is just as good for preventing deficiency and protecting vitamin D status.”

Meeting Vitamin D Needs on a Vegan Diet – One Green Planet

“Meeting vitamin A requirements may actually be a little bit of a challenge unless you consume at least one very good source of this vitamin every day. The best foods for vitamin A are leafy green veggies, sweet potatoes and, of course, carrots.”

Fruits and Veggies, Vitamin A and Vegan Diets – The Vegan RD

The “incomplete protein” myth was inadvertently promoted and popularized in the 1971 book, Diet for a Small Planet, by Frances Moore Lappé.

The Myth of Complementary Protein Explained - Forks Over Knives

A modest zinc supplement of 50 to 100% of the RDA should be safe for those who are concerned or having symptoms of zinc deficiency. The Tolerable Upper Intake Level for adults is 40 mg.

Zinc – Vegan Health

See also:

Zinc – Vegan Health

 

[Xanthippe_Voorhees]

My point is that it is a modern luxury that vegan diets can be nutritionally sound, and one that is still only afforded to those who are in wealthy countries with good food distribution systems. Having a sound vegan diet is not as simple as it is for those who eat meat–and that’s a fact.

 

[Roseeurekacross]

m

Not exactly.

You have Vitamin A which can only be found in animal products—although you can gain the benefits by ingesting 6x the amount of beta carotene.

Vitamin D is another, and while you can synthesize it from the sun it’s near impossible to get 15 minutes of direct sun exposure in many places in the world.

Complete protein with amino acids are only available from meat, and while you can get protein from veggies, it’s much more difficult and requires much higher consumption levels while still lacking amino acids. Eating lentils with grains can help make a complete protein, but you have to do so carefully.

Zinc is another one–found in nature but very difficult to get.

Much of the diet then relies on soy and heavily weighs on the ability to import products and get them out of season to make up for what meat/eggs/dairy have. So it’s not as simple as no B12…but rather a much more complex decision with much awareness needed to remain healthy.

please dont make blanket statements that are prone to error
and misinformation

Sources of Vitamin A

Food

Concentrations of preformed vitamin A are highest in liver and fish oils [2]. Other sources of preformed vitamin A are milk and eggs, which also include some provitamin A [2]. Most dietary provitamin A comes from leafy green vegetables, orange and yellow vegetables, tomato products, fruits, and some vegetable oils [2]. The top food sources of vitamin A in the U.S. diet include dairy products, liver, fish, and fortified cereals; the top sources of provitamin A include carrots, broccoli, cantaloupe, and squash [4,5].

vitamin D
15 min exposing hands feet face to the sun / food- fish eggs and D is added to margarine and milk.

zinc
Sources of Zinc

Food

A wide variety of foods contain zinc (Table 2) [2]. Oysters contain more zinc per serving than any other food, but red meat and poultry provide the majority of zinc in the American diet. Other good food sources include beans, nuts, certain types of seafood (such as crab and lobster), whole grains, fortified breakfast cereals, and dairy products [2,11].

B group
Dietary sources of Vitamin B

Brewers yeast is the richest natural source of many of the B-complex vitamin group. Whole grain cereal and liver are also rich in B vitamins. Good sources of B12 are from animal origins and include liver, meat, milk, cheese and eggs. Good sources of folate are green leafy vegetables, legumes, seeds, liver, chicken, eggs, cereals and citrus fruits. All flour used in bread in Australia is fortified with folic acid and thiamine, with the exception of ‘organic’ bread. Other good sources of thiamine include nuts and seeds, meats, legumes and whole grains. Good sources of B6, B3 and B5 are similar. Riboflavin is found in milk, yoghurt, cottage cheese, eggs, wholegrain breads and cereals, leafy green vegetables, meat, liver and kidney.

 

[Roseeurekacross]

Eating meat is just the same. It is necessary because we are fallen

thats also erroneous.

it is not necessary to eat meat because of original sin

to the op wating meat/dairy / brussel sprouts is a personal choice.

and a cultural choice .

 

[Xanthippe_Voorhees]

please dont make blanket statements that are prone to error
and misinformation

Many of the things you listed are NOT vegan acceptable sources of vitamins. Things like chicken, liver, dairy, fish, lobster, eggs are meat or animal products vegans will not use. My statement is that it is prohibitively difficult for a vegan to be completely healthy WITHOUT:
a) modern synthetic vitamins
b) modern food delivery systems for year-round produce
c) careful budgeting/more money
d) nutritionist or doctor (name removed by moderator)ut

Healthy veganism is possible in our modern times. However, it can still be cost prohibitive or even mentally prohibitive to those who don’t have the time or the know-how to see out proper help.

 

[Xanthippe_Voorhees]

Xanthippe_Voorhees:

Eating meat is just the same. It is necessary because we are fallen

thats also erroneous.

it is not necessary to eat meat because of original sin

to the op wating meat/dairy / brussel sprouts is a personal choice.

and a cultural choice .

No, no it’s not. Pre-fall meat eating was not an option for man or animal.

At this point in humanity, avoiding meat and meat products can be a choice but only because we have modern means of vitamins.

 

[Roseeurekacross]

please dont make blanket statements that are prone to error

and misinformation

Many of the things you listed are NOT vegan acceptable sources of vitamins. Things like chicken, liver, dairy, fish, lobster, eggs are meat or animal products vegans will not use. My statement is that it is prohibitively difficult for a vegan to be completely healthy WITHOUT:

a) modern synthetic vitamins

b) modern food delivery systems for year-round produce

c) careful budgeting/more money

d) nutritionist or doctor (name removed by moderator)ut

Healthy veganism is possible in our modern times. However, it can still be cost prohibitive or even mentally prohibitive to those who don’t have the time or the know-how to see out proper help.

regardless of diet
you are makimg blanket statements about the availability of vitamins and minerals in food.
are you a food scientist or nutritionist?

 

[Xanthippe_Voorhees]

Xanthippe_Voorhees:

please dont make blanket statements that are prone to error

and misinformation

Many of the things you listed are NOT vegan acceptable sources of vitamins. Things like chicken, liver, dairy, fish, lobster, eggs are meat or animal products vegans will not use. My statement is that it is prohibitively difficult for a vegan to be completely healthy WITHOUT:

a) modern synthetic vitamins

b) modern food delivery systems for year-round produce

c) careful budgeting/more money

d) nutritionist or doctor (name removed by moderator)ut

Healthy veganism is possible in our modern times. However, it can still be cost prohibitive or even mentally prohibitive to those who don’t have the time or the know-how to see out proper help.

regardless of diet
you are makimg blanket statements about the availability of vitamins and minerals in food.
are you a food scientist or nutritionist?

and the opis discussing meat eating.

The reason that most people need meat is a direct result of the deficiencies that plant-based diets encounter.

I am not a nutritionist but I have enough knowledge from university, from seeing a nutritionist and from looking at valid websites to understand what a vegan diet may lack.

Understanding the necessity for meat (outside of our modern advances) can help us understand why God chose to give us animals to provide for the things we’d most cetinally be deficient in had He not.

Quite frankly, it’s mind boggling to me how animals like seals, lions, and even dogs would have been satisfied pre-fall. Yet, it’s clear from Genisis that they were. How were their nutritional needs met with grass? I have NO idea. Same way for humans. I have NO idea how God made it work for us to be “vegan” pre fall, but we were. And it wasn’t until modern times when veganism, again, became an option for people in all climates and areas.

 

[Roseeurekacross]

am not a nutritionist but I have enough knowledge from university, from seeing a nutritionist and from looking at valid websites to understand what a vegan diet may lack.

i have a background in analytical chemistry, specifically in food and a couple of other areas.

this thread is not about how to balance a diet and where zinc or Vitamin D are found, its about how we view animals.

are they created to give Glory to God. or for our use. or both?

what about wool, leather, feathers, gelatin, hair etc.

as far as Vit D goes , its incredibly dangeous to quote web sites about lacking in D . thats for starters .