The Purpose of Marriage

[josh987654321]

Nope, just saying that the polls show US Catholics are disagreed on such matters, which includes the purpose(s) of marriage.

You have your view on what is the truth, other Catholics have their view, and in this instance there is disagreement - interpretations of what it means to be a good Catholic differ. Which means that this thread can only be based on individual interpretations.

Yup, just like Mathematicians can disagree on what 2+2 equals, but since we are all educated on Mathematics, if they answered something other than 4 they would be laughed at, not taken seriously.

God Bless

Thank you for reading
Josh

 

[PRmerger]

Nope,

Excellent.

just saying that the polls show US Catholics are disagreed on such matters, which includes the purpose(s) of marriage.

Again, people are disagreed on whether immunizations are effective.

But the fact is: anyone who disagrees with the science is simply promoting a position of ignorance.

You have your view on what is the truth, other Catholics have their view, and in this instance there is disagreement - interpretations of what it means to be a good Catholic differ. Which means that this thread can only be based on individual interpretations.

It would be interesting if you went to a pro-immunization forum and proffered the above paradigm, if you really believe this to be true.

That is: go to the pro-immunization forum, see all the science that affirms the truth of the efficacy of immunizing our children, and then say: you have your own view on what is the truth. Other anti-immunization folks have their view, and in this instance where there is disagreement—interpretations of what it means regarding whether immunizations are good differ. Which means this pro-immunization thread can only be based on individual interpretations.

You wouldn’t do that, of course, because you know the truth regarding immunizations.

The paradigm is the same for marriage.

 

[josh987654321]

Excellent.



Again, people are disagreed on whether immunizations are effective.

But the fact is: anyone who disagrees with the science is simply promoting a position of ignorance.

It would be interesting if you went to a pro-immunization forum and proffered the above paradigm, if you really believe this to be true.

That is: go to the pro-immunization forum, see all the science that affirms the truth of the efficacy of immunizing our children, andthen say: you have your own view on what is the truth. Other anti-immunization folks have their view, and in this instance where there is disagreement—interpretations of what it means regarding whether immunizations are good differ. Which means this pro-immunization thread can only be based on individual interpretations.

You wouldn’t do that, of course, because you know the truth regarding immunizations.

The paradigm is the same for marriage.

 

[PRmerger]

(It’s quite convenient to say 2+2=7 especially when selling/buying goods & services )

True, dat.

 

[inocente]

Again, people are disagreed on whether immunizations are effective.

But the fact is: anyone who disagrees with the science is simply promoting a position of ignorance.

It would be interesting if you went to a pro-immunization forum and proffered the above paradigm, if you really believe this to be true.

That is: go to the pro-immunization forum, see all the science that affirms the truth of the efficacy of immunizing our children, and then say: you have your own view on what is the truth. Other anti-immunization folks have their view, and in this instance where there is disagreement—interpretations of what it means regarding whether immunizations are good differ. Which means this pro-immunization thread can only be based on individual interpretations.

You wouldn’t do that, of course, because you know the truth regarding immunizations.

The paradigm is the same for marriage.

Excellent, I always like it when people give science such importance. And as scientists have discovered the purpose of marriage, please relate the math of the Law of the Purpose of Marriage.

But I think you’re playing games and there is no scientific or mathematical paradigm. You believe you know what makes a good Catholic but other Catholics believe different, and there’s no science or math to that, none whatsoever (except of course that there are more of them than you ).

So OK, when it comes to True Scotsmen, what gives you the edge, why should you be listened to instead of the other six in ten Catholics?

 

[josh987654321]

Excellent, I always like it when people give science such importance. And as scientists have discovered the purpose of marriage, please relate the math of the Law of the Purpose of Marriage.

Easy.

**Matthew 19:4-5

4 Jesus answered, “Don’t you know that in the beginning the Creator made a man and a woman? 5 That’s why a man leaves his father and mother and gets married. He becomes like one person with his wife. **

God created a man and a woman as it states in Genesis, as common sense dictates as we didn’t evolve from nothing and we are a two gender species of a man and a woman and as Jesus affirms in the above passage Matthew 19:4.

Male and Female are compatible and complementary in a way that no other is.

To ignore male and female complementarity and compatibility (the difference in the human anatomy of a man and a woman and how they are obviously designed for one another) is to throw all common sense and reason out the window.

But I think you’re playing games and there is no scientific or mathematical paradigm.

Yes there is, like I explain above, how can you not see that men and women were designed for one another? It’s a self evident, obvious truth written into natural law itself, it’s common sense.

I don’t know what else I can say, it’s like someone ignoring everything and blatantly/ignorantly saying 2+2=5, It’s stunning, because what else can you say other than your obviously wrong? why can’t you see that?

You believe you know what makes a good Catholic but other Catholics believe different, and there’s no science or math to that, none whatsoever (except of course that there are more of them than you ).

How about the CCC as PRmerger already pointed out?

So OK, when it comes to True Scotsmen, what gives you the edge, why should you be listened to instead of the other six in ten Catholics?

haha, yea because reason and common sense has nothing to do with it ey inocente?

Anyway I think you already know these truths to the fact that God created a man and a woman and thus the sexual acts of homosexuality (same sex marriage) being sinful and immoral inocente, the question is, why are you choosing to ignore it?

God Bless

Thank you for reading
Josh

 

[PRmerger]

Excellent, I always like it when people give science such importance. And as scientists have discovered the purpose of marriage, please relate the math of the Law of the Purpose of Marriage.

There is no need to be so literal here. You would not say “Please relate the math of the laws of immunology” to an immunologist. But you understand that there is a science of immunology nonetheless.

Similarly, you ought not say, “Please relate the math of the Law of the Purpose of Marriage” to Catholics.

Even if there is a moral law to the purpose of marriage nonetheless.

But if you insist on demanding math as it relates to the law of the purpose of marriage, here it is: 1 man + 1 woman = marriage. And when God is added to the mix we get this equation: 1 baptized man + 1 baptized woman = a sacramental marriage in which the universe is changed forever!

But I think you’re playing games and there is no scientific or mathematical paradigm. You believe you know what makes a good Catholic but other Catholics believe different, and there’s no science or math to that, none whatsoever (except of course that there are more of them than you ).

I suggest that you read our textbook, which is the sure norm for the laws of the purpose of marriage to Catholics.

So OK, when it comes to True Scotsmen, what gives you the edge, why should you be listened to instead of the other six in ten Catholics?

You need not listen to me, inocente. All you need to do is read our textbook, (cited above), see the studies, and examine the empirical evidence, , and ruminate on the conclusions of the scientists.

 

[inocente]

You need not listen to me, inocente. All you need to do is read our textbook, (cited above), see the studies, and examine the empirical evidence, , and ruminate on the conclusions of the scientists.

And the other six in ten Catholics would tell me the same.

You’re telling me we each individually interpret those documents for ourselves and make up our own minds, and since the majority of US Catholics interpret them differently to you then fine, it’s their prerogative. That’s almost Baptist of you, we too place great store in the competence of each individual before God.

This is really excellent, I think the Pope recently preached about freedom in the Spirit, and here it is in action – we each let the Spirit change our heart, and act on that in good conscience, independently if necessary, for what can be more important than the Spirit?

Very democratic, kudos, although as I said since interpretations of what it means to be a good Catholic differ, this thread is unlikely to reach any firm conclusions.

 

[josh987654321]

And the other six in ten Catholics would tell me the same.

The other six in ten Catholics would be wrong, as the CCC states clearly what Catholics believe.

You’re telling me we each individually interpret those documents for ourselves and make up our own minds, and since the majority of US Catholics interpret them differently to you then fine, it’s their prerogative. That’s almost Baptist of you, we too place great store in the competence of each individual before God.

Are you delusional inocente?

The CCC lets you know what Catholics believe, it’s not “open to interpretation.”

What you have suggested would be like telling a student to make up his own mind on what 2+2 equals when you know the answer.

This is really excellent, I think the Pope recently preached about freedom in the Spirit, and here it is in action – we each let the Spirit change our heart, and act on that in good conscience, independently if necessary, for what can be more important than the Spirit?

So does the spirit on one hand advocate evil like abortion and on the other hand condemn it? is this from the same spirit?

Does the spirit on one hand advocate sexual immorality like same sex marriage and on the other hand speak against it? is this from the same spirit?

Have you not read this inocente?

**2 Peter 3:16

16 Paul talks about these same things in all his letters, but part of what he says is hard to understand. Some ignorant and unsteady people even destroy themselves by twisting what he said. They do the same thing with other Scriptures too. **

The Catholic Church does not promote ignorant and unsteady people to destroy themselves by twisting the word of God in order to suit their own whim and fancy, this is precisely why we can refer to the CCC.

Very democratic, kudos, although as I said since interpretations of what it means to be a good Catholic differ, this thread is unlikely to reach any firm conclusions.

The Catholic Church’s teachings are not democratic. Jesus didn’t have a raise of hands on what was right/wrong.

Do you care whether the sexual acts of homosexuality are in fact sinful or not? Or would you rather lie to yourself by believing what ever you want to believe? because if that’s the case, you’ll get a rude shock when you stand before Christ.

Why is it so hard for you to accept that the sexual acts of homosexuality are sinful (immoral)? for precisely the reason that God created a man and a woman (Matthew 19:4, Mark 10:6, Genesis), thus the sexual acts of homosexuality means to use the bodies organs in a manner in which they were not designed to be used for.

God Bless

Thank you for reading
Josh

 

[josh987654321]

It’s got nothing to do with homosexuals, simply to do with the immoral act that they have desires for, not one person doesn’t suffer from immoral desires, not even me as a heterosexual.

It’s no different to a heterosexual refusing to see that fornication/promiscuity is immoral simply because they desire it so much.

God Blesses those whose hearts are pure, because they do not lie to themselves.

God Bless

Thank you for reading
Josh

 

[PRmerger]

And the other six in ten Catholics would tell me the same.

No, inocente. First you have to find 6 out of 10 Catholics who can articulate Catholic teaching as proclaimed in the Catechism.

Not the average dum-dum lump in the pew Catholic. Heck, I know that you could provide better apologia for the Catholic faith than the average Catholic.

Then, out of those 6, ask them what they believe about the purpose of marriage.

Then, I propose that you will have a different response here on the CAFs.

 

[PRmerger]

And the other six in ten Catholics would tell me the same.

You’re telling me we each individually interpret those documents for ourselves and make up our own minds, and since the majority of US Catholics interpret them differently to you then fine, it’s their prerogative.

When you have found a majority of Catholics who have even read the documents, then we can chat.

Actually, you probably have a good representation of those Catholics here on the CAFs.

What have you found regarding Catholics who have actually been able to provide apologia for the faith? Have you found 6 out of 10 of them who disagree with the Church’s teachings here?

 

[ThinkingSapien]

The other six in ten Catholics would be wrong, as the CCC states clearly what Catholics believe.

The CCC contains what Catholics are thought. Whether those thoughts are right or wrong there are people that identify as Catholics that have thoughts and conclusions that don’t conform with Catholicism. There’s variance from the teachings of Catholicism and what some Catholics think.

 

[inocente]

No, inocente. First you have to find 6 out of 10 Catholics who can articulate Catholic teaching as proclaimed in the Catechism.

Not the average dum-dum lump in the pew Catholic. Heck, I know that you could provide better apologia for the Catholic faith than the average Catholic.

Then, out of those 6, ask them what they believe about the purpose of marriage.

Then, I propose that you will have a different response here on the CAFs.

And to think those “dum-dum lump in the pew Catholics” shall inherit the earth. What was Jesus thinking?

When He said “Blessed are the pure in heart, for they will see God”, He should instead have said “Blessed are those with post-grad training in the Catechism (2nd Edition)”?

Nope, I think perhaps being a good Catholic has nothing at all to do with book learning.

 

[inocente]

When you have found a majority of Catholics who have even read the documents, then we can chat.

Actually, you probably have a good representation of those Catholics here on the CAFs.

What have you found regarding Catholics who have actually been able to provide apologia for the faith? Have you found 6 out of 10 of them who disagree with the Church’s teachings here?

It’s unlikely there’s a quorum. The membership of CAF is a tiny proportion of Catholics worldwide, and only represents folk who like debating.

But usually I’ve found more disagreement than agreement, which is what makes the forums interesting. After all, the word catholic means all-embracing.

 

[PRmerger]

And to think those “dum-dum lump in the pew Catholics” shall inherit the earth. What was Jesus thinking?

On the meek inheriting the earth, we are agreed!

Now, where you conclude that dum dum lump in the pew Catholics are meek, well, that’s a peculiar conflation.

Rather, I think Jesus said he’d spit them out.

When He said “Blessed are the pure in heart, for they will see God”

Are you certain Jesus said this, inocente? How do you know?
M
I like to point out that you are submitting to the authority of the CC here.

Nope, I think perhaps being a good Catholic has nothing at all to do with book learning.

We are commanded to love God with our entire MINDS, inocente.

But we are certainly agreed that you can be a good catholic without ever having read a book.

But be a good Catholic who inherits the earth while disagreeing with the Catholic understanding of the purpose of marriage? Not so much.

 

[PRmerger]

It’s unlikely there’s a quorum. The membership of CAF is a tiny proportion of Catholics worldwide, and only represents folk who like debating.

Find another group of Catholics who have read the CCC and know what the Immaculate conception actually is (my personal shibboleth for weeding out dum dum Catholics ) and then see if 6 out of 10 of them disagree with the church on marriage.

 

[PRmerger]

But usually I’ve found more disagreement than agreement, which is what makes the forums interesting. After all, the word catholic means all-embracing.

 

[josh987654321]

The CCC contains what Catholics are thought. Whether those thoughts are right or wrong there are people that identify as Catholics that have thoughts and conclusions that don’t conform with Catholicism. There’s variance from the teachings of Catholicism and what some Catholics think.

Yes, I think Pope Banedict said it well though.

Not all moral issues have the same moral weight as abortion and euthanasia. There may be legitimate diversity of opinion even among Catholics about waging war and applying the death penalty, but not… with regard to abortion and euthanasia. Pope Benedict XVI

Inocente brought up Catholics supporting Abortion, which is just rubbish, they don’t support Abortion because of their faith, their faith condemns it, you can’t say that because a few Catholics support Abortion that the other Catholics who condemn it in line with the CC don’t know what they are talking about because they are disagreed on such issues.

The Catholic Church is not a democracy, the teachings do not conform to the majorities, rather the majorities conform to the teachings.

God Bless

Thank you for reading
Josh

 

[josh987654321]

.

Blessed are the pure of heart because they do not lie to themselves, they do not twist the word of God in order to suit their own whim and fancy.

So the question is, do you lie to yourself when you support same sex marriage? do you twist the word of God in order to suit your own whim and fancy (eg to try and justify your advocation of same sex marriage)? or are you honest about your research in whether the sexual acts of homosexuality (same sex marriage) are sinful (immoral)?

Nope, I think perhaps being a good Catholic has nothing at all to do with book learning.

Well Jesus certainly wasn’t upset with his people because they couldn’t recite the 10 commandments by heart.

All you have to do is look at Abortion, could you be a good Catholic without being learned in such an issue? Absolutely. Could you be a good Catholic by advocating or partaking in such evil? Absolutely not.

God Bless

Thank you for reading
Josh