Your statement is meaningless, because the Father is one in being with the Son and Holy Spirit. The divine Persons are not different beings. God the holy Trinity is one and only one indivisible Being.
Exactly.
Agreed.
5:72
We know that neither God nor an angel of God spoke to mohammad. BTW…pass me a handful of cashews.Hate to point out the obvious, but whenever you rely on the Koran for anything, you implicitly state that you think god really did speak to Muhammad, an illiterate desert merchant who married (and had sex with) a six year old baby girl. Gee, good going god
But hey, why not right, after all your last pope was seen kissing the Koran. I have to say, for all their mean spirited bigoted drool, I have more respect for fundamentalists (and for that matter more trust, that’s right trust). At least they tell you what they really think!
Why not point to the simple fact that the Koran is essentially a collection of plagiarisms from the Old and New Testaments (as Christopher Hitchens does quite effectively); rather than trying to find correlation between your holy books (don’t get me wrong, there’s plenty of correlation, but because they plagiarized, not because, as you inferentially suggest, Muhammad was perhaps a quasi-legitimate agent of god). Rather than persuading anyone of the merits of your position, you’re unwittingly validating theirs.
I wish I had a single rational reason to think I’m wrong
It’s decent, though the second bolded part would be better translated as ‘whoever associates with God’. But it doesn’t say calling Jesus the Messiah is blasphemy, it says calling Jesus God is blasphemy.
You are ascribing partners to God, because Jesus is not God. You’re essentially arguing that the Qur’an doesn’t understand Christian doctrine because it says Jesus isn’t God. That doesn’t follow at all. It’s not as if the Qur’an doesn’t understand Christians believe Jesus to be God, it understands that just fine.
Which the Qur’an says Christians say in 5:72. You’re just another person who starts going round in circles by accusing the Qur’an of saying something in one of those verses (in this case 5:73) which it can’t possibly be saying since that would contradict the other verse (5:72). Until you understand that you must read 5:72-73 together and then reconcile the two statements, you’re never going to understand what the Qur’an is saying.
This is a pointless thread at this point. Jesus is God. He said it! He allowed people to worship Him. It is blasphemy to say that Jesus is not God.
We’ll never agree…not until the last dayof your life when you are judged by Christ
Christians do understand what the koran is saying. Unfortunately for muslims the koran was inspired by someone other than an angel of God. As I’ve said many times…there is only one being that derives great satisfaction from people denying the Divinity of Christ. Satan. I’m sorry…but Gabriel in the Bible said that Jesus is the Christ. God. Just as Jesus claimed to be.
You’ve just contradicted yourself. You accuse Christians of “ascribing partners to God,” then turn around and say that we can’t accuse the Quran of saying Christians believe Christ is another divine being.
That’s not a contradiction. When Christians say that Jesus is divine, they do not believe him to be another divine being as opposed to God, but rather God’s incarnation on Earth, the Son of God, the Qur’an understands this (5:17, 5:72, 4:171). But Jesus isn’t God or in anyway divine, but rather a Messenger of God (5:75). So by saying Jesus is God when he isn’t, Christians are ascribing a partner to God.
You’re going round in circles because in the previous post you accused the Qur’an of thinking Christians believe in three gods based on an interpretation of 5:73 which ignores 5:72. And you’re still going round in circles because after being directed to 5:72 you’ve now jumped ship and are accusing the Qur’an of confusing the persons of the Trinity based on an interpretation of 5:72 which ignores 5:73. 5:72 cannot be rolling the persons of the Trinity into one because 5:73 accuses Christians of believing God to be one of three, i.e. that the three are separate/distinct from each other.
Muslims believe that Jesus is the Christ as well. Christ means the “annoited one” or the messiah. Not God.
And who are you???
And the koran denies Our LORD Jesus Christ.
Now there’s some help we could do without.
I’m not trying to make anyone see the truth of anything (people can believe whatever floats their boat); I’m simply a fan of merciless and ruthless self-defense.
Yeah, well until this magical global transformation of hearts and minds happens; thank a soldier, sailor, airman, or marine (and Bush, who apparently wasn’t too deluded by his conversations with god to do what needed to be done against these animals).
Oh, you are new to this conversation. For the nearly four years that I have been on here, I, among others, have been trying to show that whomever it was that gave Muhammed about Christianity did not know basic Christian dogma. IN other words, if an all knowing God said it, he was WRONG.
Again, you are misunderstanding the role of the Trinity. Jesus is not God’s (in a unitarian sense) incarnation on Earth, but the Divine Word’s Incarnation on earth - the Word in the Trinity, Who chose to humble Himself. Furthermore, when Christians say Christ is Divine they are not ascribing partners to God, and to say so is to teach tritheism. Jesus is not a partner to God, Jesus is the Person within the Trinitarian God. They are not partners. In fact, each Person within the Trinity represents the fullness of God, and work in perfect unison through their own means. Yet to continually say that Jesus is a “partner” who is being put alongside God is untrue.
I haven’t argued that way at all - I’m not bickering over the divinity of Christ. To be honest this makes me curious if you are reading my posts to have a sincere understanding of the definition of the Trinity.
Actually, the Quran does not say they are separate nor distinct, at least not in the Trinitarian sense. That kind of clarification is never made, neither in the Quran nor in hadith sources. It merely says Allah is not one of three, which is not the Trinity (and is the wrong way for the Trinity to be “separate/distinct”), or that Jesus is not Allah, which is too much of a simplification of what Christians mean. It says that Christians ascribe partners to Allah, which is not the Trinity. All of these are wrong interpretations of Christian belief. So again, I’m not going around in circles, I’m merely having to continually clarify what the Trinity is because the real language of the definition is not being held to the same standard as the Quranic definition of the Trinity.
You can not condemn all muslims for the act of a terrorist group. Many muslims live peacefully. Though I believe with the right teachings and the gift of the holy spirit opening there hearts and minds would lead them to the truth of our mother church, I don’t think we should needlessly attack the Islamic community just because they don’t believe as we believe. I thank the men and women protecting the United States of America. But I stand firm in my belief that in order for this muslim or any other to see the truth they must first see as an example Christian love. What religion are you? It says none. God loves everyone, even you, he’s been calling after you, that’s probably why you found your way to this forum, and don’t even know it!!! How exciting. God bless!!!I’m not trying to make anyone see the truth of anything (people can believe whatever floats their boat); I’m simply a fan of merciless and ruthless self-defense.
You might think some ancient maxim (like love everyone, or take the log out of your eye, or whatever) is the best thing since sliced bread (or I guess it would be older than sliced bread), but somehow I doubt the guy sitting in front of you on the plane, trying to detonate a pound of plastic explosives, is thinking much about what Jesus would do; and we shouldn’t be either (we know what he would do right; DIE … and that’s just not a view I can philosophically wrap my mind around much less entertain for even a millisecond). I think it’s a far better to kill thy enemy before he kills you. I’m just pragmatic like that I guess
You might be willing to sit back and let these cave dwelling savages overrun western civilization, but I’m not (and I bet deep down most Christians aren’t either). So when you take the log out of your eye, hopefully your vision will have cleared up enough to see that these people won’t be appeased by shallow platitudes.
Yeah, well until this magical global transformation of hearts and minds happens; thank a soldier, sailor, airman, or marine (and Bush, who apparently wasn’t too deluded by his conversations with god to do what needed to be done against these animals).
