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De_Maria
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That is precisely why Jesus became man. To show us the way to the Father.De_Maria:
We are all men(human) and we everybody will go unto Father(God)!
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HarryStotle
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Jesus said, “The father and I are one.”HarryStotle:
14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I. John.
Perhaps, the word “greater” implies that the Son proceeds from the Father, which is why the Church Fathers all agreed that the Son is “begotten” eternally of the Father. These are the words of the Creed. True God from True God. The Son “comes out” of the Father as the eternal consequence of the nature of God.
A father does not create his son when he has one. He begets him in the sense that the son will have the same nature as his father. Perhaps the human father and son relationship is something like a metaphor of the eternal sonship of God the Son, the Son proceeding eternally from the Father. This is the way ALL Christians have always understood what Jesus meant by Son of God. It is a legitimate alternative to yours. In fact, it comports far better with all of Jesus’ words and deeds. Yours does not, you have to explain away most of what Jesus said and did.
Augustine gave the analogy of human consciousness wherein our self-identity or self-image arises from our nature as conscious persons. In a real sense, our self-understanding begets a second self; there is the self that is doing the understanding and a self that is understood. If the analogy applies to God who has perfect self-knowledge, and is Being itself, then his conceived likeness would be a perfect image of himself in goodness, power and knowledge: his eternally begotten Son, Jesus, true God from true God.
Just as our self image arises from and is dependent upon our initial conscious personhood, so God the Son arises from the ground of his being and nature, the Person of the Father. Since God is always and forever, then he would conceive or beget himself eternally. The Person who the Father conceives himself to be, the Son, would be eternal and never was there a time when he was not because the nature and self-awareness of God is eternal. This is why Jesus said, “Before Abraham ever was I AM.” He is not a created being but the eternally true God from true God.
My guess is that you are reading into Jesus’ words what you want to be there, rather than letting Jesus speak to you through his words.
You are afraid to let God tell you who he is, so you keep defining God the way you want him to be, so your God is limited by your capacity to understand him because he the way you conceive him.
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Michael16
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Not so. Jesus said that He is the Son of God. You’re the one trying to make Him say what you want Him to say. We understand God because we understand Jesus; Who is God. Whoever sees the Son, sees the Father.
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HarryStotle
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By becoming fully human, as Paul says, Jesus emptied himself to assume a human state. That would mean his human nature would be dependent upon God the Father for sustaining him as a human being, like all created beings that are dependent upon the Creator. The Son became man, fully and completely. He took on human nature with all the implications of that, meaning he voluntarily set aside for his time on earth the powers of God. When Jesus was a baby he was dependent upon Mary and Joseph to look after him because he was fully human, so he wasn’t just dependent on the Father, he was also dependent upon human beings to teach him and tell him what to do.
Merely because Jesus chose to set aside his divine powers to become human does not mean he couldn’t exercise them if he chose to.
Notice Jesus says, “…I do nothing of myself…” He DOESN’T say, “I can do nothing of myself.” His words imply a voluntary choosing of doing nothing of his own accord, not that he is unable to anything of his own accord.
As for “… I do always those things that please him…” that just stands as a logical inference from his Godhood. If the Father and Son are one in being, nature and will, the Son will be in complete agreement with the Father in all things. No surprise there. God wouldn’t be conflicted or “of two minds” with regard to what he wants, correct? Again, there is a willingness implied in those words. Jesus chooses to “do always” what pleases God because as a human with free will he has the capacity to choose of his own accord.
Your arguments are not convincing.
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mhmtas63
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The topic is crucifixion! If Jesus is God so how could God die on cross?
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mhmtas63
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I intently and repeatly mention that God do not part but you claim that I mean God get part!
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Cthompson
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This is a key doctrinal difference between Christianity and Islam. Jesus was 100% Human and 100% divine. Did his divinity die? No. Did his humanity die? Yes. This does not make him less divine.
This is a fundamental difference between the nature of God in Christianity and Islam. In Christian theology, God is a loving father and we are His children. His love for us is so great that He became flesh and died for us. This is the perfect act of love.
Islam is different. God is the master and we are his subjects. We are not to question why He does things to us because we are not to second-guess Him.
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De_Maria
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If your god does not enter into time and space, he has to be made in parts. He is either right here, with us, closer to us than our jugular vein. Or he is not. Two contradictory statements can not be true at the same time.De_Maria:
I intently and repeatly mention that God do not part but you claim that I mean God get part!
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De_Maria
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That is why God, became man. In order that He could die upon the Cross. Let me explain.
Hebrews 9:15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
The Apostle explains. Jesus fulfilled the Old Testament and established the New, in order to die and so pay the debt owed by those in the first or Old Testament. So that they might recieve the promise of eternal salvation which was promised to them.
16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
The Old Testament was a Covenant. A promise made by God. If the Jews behaved, God would save them. But the Jews were not saved until God died for them on the Cross. See Heb 11.
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mhmtas63
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For instance sun is about 150 milyon km far away from us. But by it’s light it is closer us than ourselves and get into pupil of our eyes. As essence sun is away but as affecting sun is very close. I think you can apply the case for God. Ofcourse that is just an illustration. God knows the best.
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daverod
Guest
The Qur’an, I think, says that ‘they did not crucify Hiim’
And [for] their saying, “Indeed, we have killed the Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, the messenger of Allah .” And they did not kill him, nor did they crucify him; but [another] was made to resemble him to them. And indeed, those who differ over it are in doubt about it. They have no knowledge of it except the following of assumption. And they did not kill him, for certain.
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And this is very true… The Jews did not kill Him nor crucified Him. The Romans did.
Many Religious persons even put the blame of the death of Jesus on the Jews… Many say that the Jews, His Own People, killed Him. But this is false… The Romans were the ones that, with Judicial Authority, condemned Jesus to death.
And [for] their saying, “Indeed, we have killed the Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, the messenger of Allah .” And they did not kill him, nor did they crucify him; but [another] was made to resemble him to them. And indeed, those who differ over it are in doubt about it. They have no knowledge of it except the following of assumption. And they did not kill him, for certain.
4:157
And this is very true… The Jews did not kill Him nor crucified Him. The Romans did.
Many Religious persons even put the blame of the death of Jesus on the Jews… Many say that the Jews, His Own People, killed Him. But this is false… The Romans were the ones that, with Judicial Authority, condemned Jesus to death.
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mhmtas63
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But divine nature incarnated and became human nature. So if God incarnate by same way God die!
God is same as definition both in Quran and Bible. But someone make different doctrines according to their minds. And say that that is from revelation. But it is not.
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mhmtas63
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Do verse say “they” or Jews?
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De_Maria
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No matter how far away it is, the sun is in creation. Are you saying that God is like the sun? Then you’re saying that God is in creation. And contradicting yourself.
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mhmtas63
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All we have same God! But I think you are not aware of that.
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De_Maria
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Death is a human experience. It is not a Divine experience. God can’t die. Therefore He took on a human body and the human body that He took, died, upon the Cross.Cthompson:
But divine nature incarnated and became human nature. So if God incarnate by same way God die!
When a human being dies, his body dies but his spirit lives. The spirit never dies. Not even in humans.
When Jesus died, His human body died upon the Cross. But His Spirit, the Spirit of God, was not affected by the death of the body.
Do you understand, so far?
Yeah, Mohammed. He added many lies to revelation. There is little to no truth in the Quran. It is not even true that Mohammed wrote the Quran, as people are taught. It is not even true that he compiled the Quran, as most people are told.
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De_Maria
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Jesus is my God. Who is yours?De_Maria:
All we have same God! But I think you are not aware of that.
My God enters into time and space? Where is yours?
My God said that even if an angel brought another gospel, let him be accursed. Who brought your gospel to Mohammed?
My God is love. Who is yours?
My God established the Catholic Church. What did yours do?
My God teaches that lying is a sin. Yours teaches that you are permitted to lie in three circumstances.
If you worship my God, you do it all wrong because you don’t know Him at all.
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mhmtas63
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If Jesus die by human nature so how can that be a holy sacrifice? And God do not want a sacrifice. If human want to be forgiven so human could forswear. And nobody is faulty by other’s sin. God is fair. God do not charge one for other’s sin.
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mhmtas63
Guest
Jesus’s God is my God.
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mhmtas63
Guest
Did not Paul say that?
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