The Quran corrects previous scriptures

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Ok. Fine. The Jews corrupted the passages about Abraham’s sacrifice and were celebrating a false Holyday all along. Christians, after them, did not know Jews corrupted it, even Jesus did not know. Ok. Logic aside (in fact we must kill it to come to such conclusions) but for argument’s sake:

What did the Quran correct about Abraham’s sacrifice? nothing. There is a thread of a thousand page that shows the Quran created a chaos out of it, thus not correcting anything. Anyway, thats not how God, sending a prophet on a “correction” mission , would correct such a huge corruption.

What did the Quran correct about the title Son of God? nothing. Allah gave a dozen verse talking about women and children to refute it and Muslims, till now, think the title is physical. In other words, Allah did not correct but created a flawed argument.

What did the Quran correct about Jesus’ crucifixion? nothing. Some Muslims think someone else died, others think Jesus was crucified yet did not die, others think there was no crucifixion at all. Huge differences from a single Quranic verse. So what did the Quran clear or correct? nothing. It created confusion and yet calls Jews and Christians (who were never confused in the first place) as “in doubt” about the crucifixion, when fact is, only Muslims have been in doubt till the present day.

What did the Quran correct about the belief that Jesus is God? nothing. It says that since he ate food, he is no divine. But hey, we believe He was human as well.Pretty poor argument from an all-knowing deity.
Or, it says we believe that God is Jesus, which is a flawed argument since we already know that the Father is not Jesus.

What did the Quran correct about the Trinity? nothing, it does not even mention what the Trinity is about, but we find Mary instead of the Holy Spirit. Even if we were to assume that Mary is not part of the Trinity as per Quran, then where is the true Trinity? shouldn’t Allah at least present the teaching in order to correct it?

all in all, Muslims think Muhammad corrected previous teachings, yet all they present are confusions or wrong arguments from the Quran.

So what did Muhammad correct? and how can God correct by misrepresenting the teachings? and how can God correct by giving wrong refutations? and how can God be not-knowing about peoples’ beliefs?
 
inJESUS said:
Ok. Fine. The Jews corrupted the passages about Abraham’s sacrifice and were celebrating a false Holyday all along. Christians, after them, did not know Jews corrupted it, even Jesus did not know. Ok. Logic aside (in fact we must kill it to come to such conclusions) but for argument’s sake:

What did the Quran correct about Abraham’s sacrifice? nothing. There is a thread of a thousand page that shows the Quran created a chaos out of it, thus not correcting anything. Anyway, thats not how God, sending a prophet on a “correction” mission , would correct such a huge corruption.

What did the Quran correct about the title Son of God? nothing. Allah gave a dozen verse talking about women and children to refute it and Muslims, till now, think the title is physical. In other words, Allah did not correct but created a flawed argument.

What did the Quran correct about Jesus’ crucifixion? nothing. Some Muslims think someone else died, others think Jesus was crucified yet did not die, others think there was no crucifixion at all. Huge differences from a single Quranic verse. So what did the Quran clear or correct? nothing. It created confusion and yet calls Jews and Christians (who were never confused in the first place) as “in doubt” about the crucifixion, when fact is, only Muslims have been in doubt till the present day.

What did the Quran correct about the belief that Jesus is God? nothing. It says that since he ate food, he is no divine. But hey, we believe He was human as well.Pretty poor argument from an all-knowing deity.
Or, it says we believe that God is Jesus, which is a flawed argument since we already know that the Father is not Jesus.

What did the Quran correct about the Trinity? nothing, it does not even mention what the Trinity is about, but we find Mary instead of the Holy Spirit. Even if we were to assume that Mary is not part of the Trinity as per Quran, then where is the true Trinity? shouldn’t Allah at least present the teaching in order to correct it?

all in all, Muslims think Muhammad corrected previous teachings, yet all they present are confusions or wrong arguments from the Quran.

So what did Muhammad correct? and how can God correct by misrepresenting the teachings? and how can God correct by giving wrong refutations? and how can God be not-knowing about peoples’ beliefs?
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I believe Hamba and Planten have admitted the Scriptures are not corrupt.

Hamba in this message

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=3136203&postcount=155

has admitted that the Scriptures are not corrupt. Since he says:

And so, if Jews and Christians refuse to accept Muhammad (pbuh) as the Messenger of Allah, then they need to ask themselves who are they following i.e. their scriptures OR their church leaders and rabbis.

Note that in the message he insinuates that following our leaders is wrong, so we should follow our Scriptures. Now, why would he want us to follow our Scriptures unless our Scriptures are not corrupt.

and Planten said:
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=3136254&postcount=156

“no verse is abrogated” and as you have previously proven, the Quran says the Scriptures are the Word of God.

However, I am inferring this conclusion from their messages. I hope we can get more direct confirmation from them.

Sincerely,

De Maria
 
The Quran corrects previous scriptures
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Hi

Yes, the Quran does correct the previous scriptures, in my opinion. Quran claims it in so many clear and straightforward verses and gives reasons also. To start with others don’t claim it and give **no reasons **also. If other scriptures have claims to this and provide reasons, please submit.

Thanks
 
The Koran “correcting” previous Scriptures is like General McClellan writing a history of the Lincoln administration.
 
I always wonder what teachings concerning morals Mohammed brought that are superior to Christianity.

What superior teachings concerning morals does Mormonism bring?

What morals teachings did David Koresh bring that are superior to Christianity?

What teachings concerning morals do heretics bring that are superior to Christianity?
 
The Qur’an actually introduces itself as Furqan which means ‘the criterion to distinguish between truth and falsehood’ and Sura 25 is named Al-Furqan.

Blessed is He Who hath revealed unto His slave the Criterion (of right and wrong), that he may be a warner to the peoples. … (Al-Qur’an, 25:1)

BTW, the Qur’an also describes itself as Kitab (book), Dhikr (guidance), Burhaan (evidence), Shifa (cure), Kayyim (that which is pure), Muhaymin (that which preserves the previous scriptures) and the like.
 
thank you Hamba3han. Any response as to what does the Quran correct in my previous list?
 
The Qur’an was NOT sent as an erratum i.e. it is not meant to correct errors by the author but rather, it was sent as a Criterion i.e. to distinguish between truth and falsehood and thereby enable believers to know and recognise the corruption that earlier scriptures had been subjected to throughout history until the Qur’an was revealed.
 
hamba2han said:
The Qur’an was NOT sent as an erratum i.e. it is not meant to correct errors by the author but rather, it was sent as a Criterion i.e. to distinguish between truth and falsehood and thereby enable believers to know and recognise the corruption that earlier scriptures had been subjected to throughout history until the Qur’an was revealed.
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ok so in order to recognise the corruption, the Quran must present the truth about a certain teaching in order for people to realize the wrong…what is truth that the quran presents regarding the points i raised?
 
paarsurrey said:
Hi

Yes, the Quran does correct the previous scriptures, in my opinion. Quran claims it in so many clear and straightforward verses
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Pleasse post them.
and gives reasons
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also.Please post them also.
To start with others don’t
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claim it and give **no reasons **also.The only Scriptures of which I care are the OT and the NT. Christians, at least Catholics, accept the OT as is. No changes, no corrections. And of course, we wrote the NT.
If other scriptures have claims
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to this and provide reasons, please submit.The subject of the thread is:
*So what did Muhammad correct? and how can God correct by misrepresenting the teachings? and how can God correct by giving wrong refutations? and how can God be not-knowing about peoples’ beliefs?

*Focus grasshoppa!
Thanks
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Sincerely,

De Maria
 
TRINITY
Jesus is entirely human, but the Holy Spirit dwells within him, and he is given great power and authority by God so as to elevate him to the position of God over humans, as Moses was also given such a role in Exodus 4:16. Jesus is still a servant of God in all cases, and he worshiped God too, God does not worship God. This in no way robs Jesus of any power or authority as Messiah, which the Quran still says he is, since Jesus is respected and obeyed as God would be, but he is not worshiped as the one God of Israel.

SON OF GOD
The Quran teaches that Jesus is not the Son of God, which seeks to dispel the notion that God had sex with Mary like Zeus would mate with a mortal to produce a demigod. However, the Quran is not against the Jewish idea of righteous humans being spiritual sons and children, the righteous servants of God. Romans 8:14-16 also says that all humans, while not glorified like Jesus due to his special position, can be children of God too. So the Quran and Gospels are both correct, Christian and Muslim understandings are wrong.

CRUCIFIXION
If one considers that his Roman crucifixion was intended to be an execution, if Jesus did not die by effects of nailing to the cross then he would not have been crucified, though he may certainly have been nailed to it. This means that God took the life of Jesus from the cross, rather than allowing it to kill him through crucifixion. And it further reinforces the idea of Isaiah 42:4 that Jesus was not stopped nor discouraged by men, being killed by Jews or Romans, but rather he willingly returned to God in an act of obedience. The crucifixion started to take place but Jesus died before it could kill him, and he died before the others being crucified with him so they needed their legs broken to speed death, and he did not. So again the Quran and Gospels are both correct, Christian and Muslim understandings are wrong.

SACRIFICE FOR SIN
Moses sacrificed a life of royalty in order to help save Israelites from sin in Egypt and return them to a life of obedience to God. Mohammed made sacrifices when he was persecuted for preaching monotheism. And Jesus gave up his life in order to preach about the Kingdom of God. All three men made sacrifices so that they might be put into positions as Saviors of people from sin, delivering them to obedience of God. Therefore, the sacrifice Jesus made is not at all incompatible with Muslim beliefs since the Quran teaches that God is the ultimate savior of us all, and Hebrews 5:7 says of Jesus that he too required God to save him from death. The Quran is simply against a human sacrifice to appease God, or that another person can be a whipping boy to pay for sins of another. But many types of people, from Moses, Jesus, and Mohammed, to firefighters, can be saviors in their own ways, and beliefs that a person can sacrifice his life to save people from harm, whether it be the flames of a burning building or the flames of Hell. The thing to remember is that God gets the final credit for enabling us to help save anyone. So again, understandings are wrong, but the Quran and Bible are correct.

SACRIFICE OF ISAAC
Muslims believe it involved Ishmael and not Isaac because Genesis 22:2 commands Abraham to sacrifice his only son, taken to mean before Isaac’s birth. However Ishmael was already sent away in Genesis 21:14 so Isaac really was Abraham’s only son remaining with him. Ishmael is also never mentioned in this entire chapter of the Quran, only Isaac and Abraham are blessed. Thus the popular Muslim notion of Ishmael is rejected with a literal reading of Quran, and again, the Quran and Bible are both correct.

Hope this helps.
 
hamba2han said:
The Qur’an was NOT

sent as an erratum i.e. it is not meant to correct errors by the author but rather, it was sent as a Criterion i.e. to distinguish between truth and falsehood and thereby enable believers to know and recognise the corruption that earlier scriptures had been subjected to throughout history until the Qur’an was revealed.
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The Koran is a mistranslated Syrio-Aramaic Lectionary. This is why there are
  1. so many errors in context,
  2. so many hapax legomenon
  3. goofy assertions about 72 virgins
  4. blood on the mantle of Mary
  5. bits and pieces of Jewish and Christian scriptures throughout.
Arabic was NOT a written language at the time of the ‘revelation’ to Mohammed. It became a written language when that Caliph ‘translated’ the Koran over 100 years AFTER the death of Mohammed.

Gee, maybe this is why so many Arabic scholars who have questioned the origins of the Koran AS A TEXT have been murdered or have had relatives disappear…

The University of Chicago has a Syrio-Aramaic Institute.

Google it with ‘Christoph Luxemburg’ for a review of his book delineating the origins of the Koran.

The Atlantic Monthly has a great two part research article on the origins of the Koran on line. It names the names of those who have died looking into this ‘holy’ book of Islam

Robert

The book is now available in English from its German publisher.
 
Rbt_Southwell said:
The Koran is a mistranslated Syrio-Aramaic Lectionary. This is why there are
3) goofy assertions about 72 virgins
5) bits and pieces of Jewish and Christian scriptures throughout.
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Just on these, 72 virgins are a metaphor for blessings, not women. Like the Lamb’s Bride doesn’t really have sex with Jesus after their marriage in Revelation.

The NT has a lot of bits and pieces of the OT too, the intention wasn’t to repeat the entire Bible in the Quran, but correct some of the corrupted interpretations of it.
 
Not even close,FoA.

The “72 virgins” (according to Syrio-Aramaic scholars like Christoph Luxemburg) is a mistranslation [oral Arabic not having diacritical marks for vowels, thus, ‘bk’ could mean ‘book,’ ‘bake,’ or ‘bike,’ for an English example!].

Putting in those marks similar to Syrio-Aramaic at the same historical time changes the passage to ‘wine from crystal grapes,’ a very Jewish and Catholic image indeed.

Unless of course you’re like my 7th Day Adventist sister-in-law who says Jesus changed the water at Cana to grape juice…

Robert
 
Rbt_Southwell said:
Not even close,FoA.

Putting in those marks similar to Syrio-Aramaic at the same historical time changes the passage to ‘wine from crystal grapes,’ a very Jewish and Catholic image indeed.
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Is it? Why not a Muslim image too? In Revelation 21, the Holy City of New Jerusalem is said to be shaped like a cube and the dwelling place of God and Jesus as the Temple of it. In Mecca, the Kaaba is shaped like a cube and also said to be the dwelling place of God, and is seen to be a type for the New Jerusalem of Christianity.

The Well of Zamzam from which pilgrims often drink is located near the Kaaba, which is the water that saved the life of Ishmael when he and his mother were sent away by Abraham, and this is also seen as a type of wine of the New Covenant which gives life, here specifically the children of Ishmael who are the Muslims that accept Jesus as Messiah through the Quran.

Genesis 21:19 And God opened her eyes, and she saw a well of water; and she went, and filled the bottle with water, and gave the lad drink.

Revelation 22:1 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.

Kind of cool that if it was a mistranslation it still fits, crystal water into crystal grapes into wine. Kind of like how the Christian mistranslation of almah into virgin can still apply to a young woman.
 
FaithofAbraham said:
Is it? Why not a Muslim image too? In Revelation 21, the Holy City of New Jerusalem is said to be shaped like a cube and the dwelling place of God and Jesus as the Temple of it. In Mecca, the Kaaba is shaped like a cube and also said to be the dwelling place of God, and is seen to be a type for the New Jerusalem of Christianity.

Well, to begin with, it’s a MIStranslation of an early Catholic lectionary. You might as well give credence to the Book of Mormon for lifting whole chapters out of the KJV of Isaiah as being ‘original’ to mormonism.

As to your cube comment: squares are symbols of perfection (see 1 Kings 6, 19-20) and the whole ‘New Jerusalem’s’ measurements are in multiples of twelve.

Don’t get caught up looking for a code. Holy Scripture is full of images being used in multiple ways to stress a point. It is a 19th century American protestant ‘thing’ to search for secret clues in Revelation for End Times and the unBiblical ‘Rapture.’
The Well of Zamzam from which pilgrims often drink is located near the Kaaba, which is the water that saved the life of Ishmael when he and his mother were sent away by Abraham, and this is also seen as a type of wine of the New Covenant which gives life, here specifically the children of Ishmael who are the Muslims that accept Jesus as Messiah through the Quran
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Well, a Lectionary, FoA, is a collection of OT and NT passages as well as early Hymns and prayers (like St Ignatius) and commentary (like the Jewish midrash: it’s our Tradition!) on the teachings (parables) of Jesus.

It’s “cool” that it fits the type of the time and area for Syrio-Aramaic Catholics. And as my Israeli father-in-law used to say: his daughter was almah before I got her pregnant.

Robert
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Rbt_Southwell said:
The Well of Zamzam from which pilgrims often drink is located near the Kaaba, which is the water that saved the life of Ishmael when he and his mother were sent away by Abraham, and this is also seen as a type of wine of the New Covenant which gives life, here specifically the children of Ishmael who are the Muslims that accept Jesus as Messiah through the Quran.
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It’s just basic theology. Jews receive the covenant of Abraham through Isaac. Gentiles receive it through Ishmael when he is reconciled with Isaac and grafted back into the family under Abraham who receives the New Covenant from Jesus as the Priest-King Melchizedek.

John 8:56-58 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad. Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham? Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
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FaithofAbraham said:
It’s just basic theology. Jews receive the covenant of Abraham through Isaac. Gentiles receive it through Ishmael when he is reconciled with Isaac and grafted back into the family under Abraham who receives the New Covenant from Jesus as the Priest-King Melchizedek.
John 8:56-58 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad. Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham? Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
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“Basic theology” from who???

Your snippet from St John does NOTHING to support your first paragraph (if that was your intention on putting it there), as to ‘gentiles,’ it is a word that generally means ‘nations’ or ‘other tribes’ or ‘other people.’ In a word, non-Jews.

Your ‘basic theology’ is woefully off base, friend.

Maybe a little explanation on your stated ‘religion’ would clarify some of these conclusions you assert.

Thanks

Robert
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