The Qur'an: Created Or Uncreated

[gilliam]

Gottle of Geer:

It would be interesting to know where Muslim theologians, beginning with Muhammad & his companions, got their ideas from. I’m guessing there is some Neo-Platonist influence - not least because some of what is “typically” Muslim is inherited from the Syrian Christianity of Muhammad’s day.

al-Lah was a pagan god prior to Muhammad. He believed in al-Lah before his meeting the angel.

A lot of what we in the West think of as Islamic ideas are really simply Arab traditions dating back millenium.

I don’t think Muhammad knew anything about Plato but Mecca would have had some dealings with the Greek world via the Byzanteens.

Couple of histories to reference:

A History of God: The 4,000-Year Quest of Judaism, Christianity and Islam by Karen Armstrong

Islam : A Short History (Modern Library Chronicles) by Karen Armstrong

 

[But_for_Grace]

Gottle of Geer:

Since the concept of creation from eternity is not self-contradictory, there can, in principle, be entities which are eternal and are created. So an eternal Koran which does not violate shirk is not a contradiction in terms - for it is not being “associated” with God if it is said to be eternal. It could perfectly well be an eternal Idea in the mind of God, and so, be eternal in the same way the decree of election & predestination is eternal

Gottle - You do realize that this is a contradiction in terms, how can something be eternal and created? That which is eternal is without beginning and without end, while that which is created by nature has a beginning. Since something cannot have a beginning yet not have a beginning, then we must conclude that either the Quran is a created thing being given the attributes of God, or it is being equated with God. This is a point which might need clarified, is the Quran created or is it eternal?