The Qur'an: hijacked tranlations?

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inJESUS said:
Ralph, can you give me an example of how a sentence , by translation, changes from being anti-semitic to the opposite?
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Specifically, no, but in general yes.

It is all about word choice. Let’s say the original line says something like “Those who follow the Jews in Jerusalem and not Allah should be slain with the sword.” Now, we can say that this is against Judaism clearly. But, instead of that, what if we change it to “Those who are non-believers in Jerusalem should be slain with the sword.” Suddenly, you can argue that it is not about Jews. At the same time, the inverse is also possible.

Word choice in the Qur’an, from what I can tell, is very abiguous. It seems like it was written so that it could be anti-Jew or anti-Christian or passed off as not. Non-Beleivers at times is used to mean non-Muslims in general and at other times to mean non-Muslims who fight against Islam. What it means to fight against Islam also seems to not be clearly defined.

If Christians attack Muslims first, it is an attack on Islam and war. If Muslims attack Christians first, it is needed to help us find the true faith.
 
It certainly does happen when reading some passages from the OT or the NT!
 
Somebody mentioned certain passages in the Qur’an are rather obscure. Examples?
 
It’s true that medieval translations of the Qur’an were awful, the one the opening post references is a classic example of that. However most of the English translations we now have available in the 21st Century are very good, and fail more in expressing the power of the original than expressing the meaning incorrectly.

As for a non-Muslim translating it, I don’t think many Catholics would be unsuspicious of a Muslim translating the New Testament. The only non-Muslim translation of the Qur’an I’ve read is Rodwell’s and it’s really very bad (though this may be more to do with it being written in the 19th Century).
 
Kadaveri said:
It’s true that medieval translations of the Qur’an were awful, the one the opening post references is a classic example of that. However most of the English translations we now have available in the 21st Century are very good, and fail more in expressing the power of the original than expressing the meaning incorrectly.

As for a non-Muslim translating it, I don’t think many Catholics would be unsuspicious of a Muslim translating the New Testament. The only non-Muslim translation of the Qur’an I’ve read is Rodwell’s and it’s really very bad (though this may be more to do with it being written in the 19th Century).
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You have raised two good points.

First, linguistics has evolved greatly over the last hundred years. It still has a ways to go, but as a science it is better. It is still hard ot translate everything, especially to get the same “feel.”

Second, Catholics would be suspicious. But, once it could be judged, it may become accepted as a good translation.

In some ways, a non-Muslim Qur’an would be a good idea since so many times when a quesiton is raised about Islam, we are told that either we don’t understand the verse or that is not what True Islam is. Perhaps if we had sources that were not sectarian, True Islam would be easier to see.
 
Lapell said:
Correction: anyone can read a passage and THINK he/she understands the meaning! It’s slightly different!
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Well if your a logical minded person and can read and interpret things, its pretty straight forward.
Just say you have a sentence like:
'The cat is sitting on the lounge"
Well its obvious the cat is not sitting on the table or chair, its sitting on the lounge, thats pretty logical and straight forward.
The same goes with other quotes and texts in the quran, its pretty straight forward with what its saying.
Some people just look into things too deeply and try to see things that are not there at times.
 
dolphinlove said:
Well if your a logical minded person and can read and interpret things, its pretty straight forward.
Just say you have a sentence like:
'The cat is sitting on the lounge"
Well its obvious the cat is not sitting on the table or chair, its sitting on the lounge, thats pretty logical and straight forward.
The same goes with other quotes and texts in the quran, its pretty straight forward with what its saying.
Some people just look into things too deeply and try to see things that are not there at times.
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I still maintain what I said. And it is about far more than just “The cat is sitting on the lounge.” Do you know something about proper Biblical interpretation? There might be something similar about Coranic interpretation…
 
i have nothing more to say other than it is not translation that changes anti-semitism but actually interpretations.

YUSUFALI: The Jews call 'Uzair a son of Allah, and the Christians call Christ the son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouth; (in this) they but imitate what the unbelievers of old used to say. Allah’s curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the Truth!

PICKTHAL: And the Jews say: Ezra is the son of Allah, and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah. That is their saying with their mouths. They imitate the saying of those who disbelieved of old. Allah fighteth against them. How perverse are they!

SHAKIR: And the Jews say: Uzair is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away!

3 different translations but the meaning is the same against both Jews and Christians. This hatred will not be erased unless a translator turns it into " may Allah guide them", which is impossible to do because it’s a radical alteration of meaning rather than translation. Hence translation will not change the hatred in this passage no matter what because the Arabic words are very clear
 
Lapell said:
I still maintain what I said. And it is about far more than just “The cat is sitting on the lounge.” Do you know something about proper Biblical interpretation? There might be something similar about Coranic interpretation…
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Well im speaking about my personal experience, when i did read it (the parts i read anyway) its quite straight forward in what it says. I dont believe anything to be ‘hard to interpret’ in the quran.
 
inJESUS said:
i have nothing more to say other than it is not translation that changes anti-semitism but actually interpretations.

YUSUFALI: The Jews call 'Uzair a son of Allah, and the Christians call Christ the son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouth; (in this) they but imitate what the unbelievers of old used to say. Allah’s curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the Truth!

PICKTHAL: And the Jews say: Ezra is the son of Allah, and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah. That is their saying with their mouths. They imitate the saying of those who disbelieved of old. Allah fighteth against them. How perverse are they!

SHAKIR: And the Jews say: Uzair is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away!

3 different translations but the meaning is the same against both Jews and Christians. This hatred will not be erased unless a translator turns it into " may Allah guide them", which is impossible to do because it’s a radical alteration of meaning rather than translation. Hence translation will not change the hatred in this passage no matter what because the Arabic words are very clear
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Excuse me, inJesus… I take it this is a verse from a surah in the Qur’an. Which? Unless I am just entering a thread, I don’t usually leaf so many of the previous posts… sorry! Thank you!
 
dolphinlove said:
Well im speaking about my personal experience, when i did read it (the parts i read anyway) its quite straight forward in what it says. I dont believe anything to be ‘hard to interpret’ in the quran.
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Some verses from the Bible can be felt about the same, eh? Even when proper Biblical interpretation would slightly differ from what one would naturally think!
Of course if your interpretation matches that of most of the scholars, then that’s another thing!
 
Lapell said:
Excuse me, inJesus… I take it this is a verse from a surah in the Qur’an. Which? Unless I am just entering a thread, I don’t usually leaf so many of the previous posts… sorry! Thank you!
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9:30
 
Lapell said:
Thanks!
Oh, and I’m leaving early tomorrow morning to take a 2 1/2 week vacation. So, until then (and also beyond then, of course), may God bless you all.
Bye now, and god love you!
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God bless. HAve a safe and enjoyable trip.
 
Lapell said:
Thanks!
Oh, and I’m leaving early tomorrow morning to take a 2 1/2 week vacation. So, until then (and also beyond then, of course), may God bless you all.
Bye now, and god love you!
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Kalo taksidi (Have a safe trip)! Enjoy your holiday. The Lord be with you and assist you 🙂
 
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