The quran

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From a Christian’ perspective you are right. The Quran reverts back to the dark days of pre-Messiah. It undoes what Jesus had done. In that sense it is Satanic. The one thing Satan does not want is for Jesus to die (on the cross). Thus when Peter said that **he should be given **to the Sanhedrin to be crucified Jesus picked him out right away, “Get behind me, Satan”. It was Satan who said that through Peter. Jesus nevertheless did die and won the victory and those who believe may be saved. Satan is a destroyer of life who still works very hard with lies so that there will be people who would not believe. Unfortunately the Quran for all its acclamation fit this objective of Satan.
Correction: That should be should not, alluding to Matt 16:21-22.

21From that time on Jesus began to explain to his disciples that he must go to Jerusalem and suffer many things at the hands of the elders, chief priests and teachers of the law, and that he must be killed and on the third day be raised to life.
22Peter took him aside and began to rebuke him. “Never, Lord!” he said. “This shall never happen to you!”

23Jesus turned and said to Peter, “Get behind me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to me; you do not have in mind the things of God, but the things of men.”
 
Also, a request for a Catholic.
Provide ONE verse of the Bible that clearly states that Jesus [as] was God.
John 10:30
I and the Father are one."

Matthew 17:5-6
I think you’ll have some trouble.
Asked and answered in Matthew 4.
In fact, the Bible makes it quite clear Jesus [as] was human and not divine. [Also both cannot exist within the confines of one being. Fallibility cancels out infallibility under *any
instance.]
You should read Job again. Do you doubt Jesus walking upon the sea, healing the incurable, feeding thousands, or raising others from the dead? (You limit the Almighty? God won’t lie and the Quran is a contradiction to His Word.)
God was all knowing, Jesus [as] was not:
Here Jesus [as] admits he can do nothing on his own authority. God is all powerful.
Matthew 6:3
"But when you give to the poor, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing,

Can/do you do that? The One gave to humanity, and maybe did not let His right hand (Mark 14:61-62) know a particular for a reason you may not comprehend. What makes you think John 16:7 is talking about Mohammed s most Moslems claim?
God was all powerful, Jesus [as] was not:
What is more powerfull than not using the force? A Moslem should appreciate this perfect example in Jesus of submission to God by nature of being human. Except that Mohammed is profoundly anti-Christ like by personal example so maybe Jesus isn’t such a good example for a professed Moslem.
God does not have a God, Jesus [as] did:
Being human is obviously a unique condition that have limitations by nature of being mortal. allah of the Quran may not be omnipotent but the God of Abraham is.
Jesus [as] was flesh and blood:
No dispute.
Jesus [as] on more than one occasion say that people have never seen God’s face nor heard his voice, yet the were facing him directly.
The law was fulfilled, He forgave their sins and cured them too. Hallelujah!
Will was distinct from his own:
No dispute except to note Jesus’ free will was that of the Father which He put into practice as a human being.
Jesus [as], acknowledges that he did not come to Earth on his own accord, he was directed by a greater being. Allah [swt] sent messengers, one of which being the Prophet Jesus. 🙂
What part of God becoming human remains unclear that John 13:15 does not clearly explain?

I’ll grant for the sake of this argument the Quran is the exact words uttered by a (unnamed) spirit to Mohammed over a 23 year period before dying of natural 7th century causes, but not to martyrdom. How do you know who spoke to him when Mohammed didn’t know, but whose words are what you claim as divine, unchanged, and perfect? Like Christ?

How do you get past this clear affront to reason?
Abu Huraira reported many ahadith from Allah’s Messenger and one is that Allah’s Messenger said: I am most close to Jesus, son of Mary, among the whole of mankind in this worldly life and the next life. They said: Allah’s Messenger how is it? Thereupon he said: Prophets are brothers in faith, having different mothers. Their religion is, however, one and there is no Apostle between us (between I and jesus Christ). (Book #030, Hadith #5836) ~Muslim/(Book #55, Hadith #652)~ Bukhari
 
John 10:30
I and the Father are one."
Please do not read things literally. Jesus used to talk in parables. You still have to show something where Jesus says he is the God.
You should read Job again. Do you doubt Jesus walking upon the sea, healing the incurable, feeding thousands, or raising others from the dead? (You limit the Almighty? God won’t lie and the Quran is a contradiction to His Word.)
We believe in the miracles. They are mentioned in the Quran. But most of them are symbolic only. We may not take literl meaning of all of those miracles.
Matthew 6:3
"But when you give to the poor, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing,
That is right. It is also the teaching of Islam too. No difference.
Can/do you do that? The One gave to humanity, and maybe did not let His right hand (Mark 14:61-62) know a particular for a reason you may not comprehend. What makes you think John 16:7 is talking about Mohammed s most Moslems claim?
** Bible (Injeel) means “Good news”. Jesus did not tell all to his disciples. He said he ha dmany things to say unto them but they could not bear it. That meant some one was to come after him.

The parable of the vineyard also tells us that some one will come after the son. Some one greater than the son will come after him. You may see that parable in the bible. The fruit of the vineyard was not made available till the time of the son, i.e. Jesus. After Jesus, the owner of the vineyard will come himself and will punish the tenants.

It is also mentioned in John ch.16 that the Spirit of Truth will come after Jesus who will hear and speak and will guide. Have any one seen any ghost doing that? That comforter, the spirit of Truth, will be a man like Jesus himself.**
What is more powerfull than not using the force? A Moslem should appreciate this perfect example in Jesus of submission to God by nature of being human. Except that Mohammed is profoundly anti-Christ like by personal example so maybe Jesus isn’t such a good example for a professed Moslem.
No. Jesus is a perfect example of a great man of God for us Muslims. We honor him and respect him like all the other prophets of God. We do not differentiate between any messenger of God. But to make any man into a God is beyond us.
Being human is obviously a unique condition that have limitations by nature of being mortal. allah of the Quran may not be omnipotent but the God of Abraham is
.

**
Being unique could be the odd one out, something wrong.

The God of Abraham is the same God of Muhammad and Jesus and Moses and the rest of the world. It says so in the Quran. While you have no proof or words with you which say that God of Muhammad is different to the God of Abraham. The god of Muhammad is omnipotent and omnipresent and is a living god who never dies. He is The God who revealed Himself to all the prophets before Jesus and those after him.

That God is still living and speaking. He has not gone quiet even in this age. The miracles of Muhammad are being fulfilled even now.**
The law was fulfilled, He forgave their sins and cured them too. Hallelujah!
Law cannot be fulfilled by abolishing the law. It is true that if the law is abolished completely then there will be no law and that will be one way of its fulfillment. But please think. What a bad way of fulfilling the law of Moses a.s.???
No dispute except to note Jesus’ free will was that of the Father which He put into practice as a human being
.

Jesus was sent by God (you say the Father God) like all others who were sent before Jesus. Jesus obeyed the God very well and conveyed the message very well. All the other messengers were human only and so was Jesus.
What part of God becoming human remains unclear that John 13:15 does not clearly explain?
** I cannot understand what you mean. Nobody has ever seen a mangod. 9except metaphorically).**
I’ll grant for the sake of this argument the Quran is the exact words uttered by a (unnamed) spirit to Mohammed over a 23 year period before dying of natural 7th century causes, but not to martyrdom. How do you know
** Yes, okay. Muhammad died due to natural causes, i.e. a natural death and so did Jesus. He also died a natural death at the age of 120 years. We have been told by our prophet Muhammad who had regular communion with The God (Allah).**
who spoke to him
when Mohammed didn’t know, but whose words are what you claim as divine, unchanged, and perfect? Like Christ?

How do you get past this clear affront to reason?

Please make it clear, what you want to prove. The prophet did not know the angel. He had never met him before. The angel, when he came, got hold of the prophet and told Muhammad to recite. He said he could not read or recite. Then the angel told him to recite. That meant “You recite after me.” i.e. repeat the words after me. The angel pressed the chest of the prophet and then spoke the words that had come from God (Allah)…. Those very first words are to be found in chapter 76 of the Quran.
 
Please do not read things literally. Jesus used to talk in parables. You still have to show something where Jesus says he is the God.
How funny/hypocritical of you to say not to read it literally. I give you three references where Jesus says He is God, God says Jesus is His Son, and the devil knows Jesus is God and you still disbelieve.
We believe in the miracles. They are mentioned in the Quran. But most of them are symbolic only. We may not take literl meaning of all of those miracles.
The word of your god allah in Quran is symbolic and not the literal word? How can you say “we believe in the miracles” because they are in Quran and then say they are symbolic only?
That is right. It is also the teaching of Islam too. No difference.
Major differences, the first is when Jesus says give to the poor He means any poor, regardless of if they are Jew or believer in Him. Mohammed says give to only poor believers (Moslems) and help not the disbeliever, but to kill and subjugate the non-believer. Islam and you do not understand what it means to give freely that one hand does not know what the otehr is doing.
** Bible (Injeel) means “Good news”. Jesus did not tell all to his disciples. He said he ha dmany things to say unto them but they could not bear it. That meant some one was to come after him.**
The Holy Spirit at Pentecost 40 days after Jesus rose from the dead. See Acts 1.
The parable of the vineyard also tells us that some one will come after the son. Some one greater than the son will come after him. You may see that parable in the bible. The fruit of the vineyard was not made available till the time of the son, i.e. Jesus. After Jesus, the owner of the vineyard will come himself and will punish the tenants.
The owner of the vineyard sent messengers first, then sent His Son whom they killed.
**It is also mentioned in John ch.16 that the Spirit of Truth will come after Jesus who will hear and speak and will guide. Have any one seen any ghost doing that? That comforter, the spirit of Truth, will be a man like Jesus himself. **
How can the Spirit of Truth be a man when you doubt the Word of God became flesh?
No. Jesus is a perfect example of a great man of God for us Muslims. We honor him and respect him like all the other prophets of God. We do not differentiate between any messenger of God. But to make any man into a God is beyond us.
Jesus is not any man and is not a god, but Jesus is the Man conceived by the Holy Spirit and the One God made flesh.
**
Being unique could be the odd one out, something wrong.**
Just your understanding.
The God of Abraham is the same God of Muhammad and Jesus and Moses and the rest of the world. It says so in the Quran. While you have no proof or words with you which say that God of Muhammad is different to the God of Abraham. The god of Muhammad is omnipotent and omnipresent and is a living god who never dies. He is The God who revealed Himself to all the prophets before Jesus and those after him.
The words/actions of the God of Abraham are different from the god of Mohammed.
** That God is still living and speaking. He has not gone quiet even in this age. The miracles of Muhammad are being fulfilled even now. **
Mohammed claimed no miracles but the Quran, and the only fulfillment of it has been disorder.
Law cannot be fulfilled by abolishing the law. It is true that if the law is abolished completely then there will be no law and that will be one way of its fulfillment. But please think. What a bad way of fulfilling the law of Moses a.s.???
Once fulfilled, what is it? It is complete. It remains but is different. What you fail to understand is the Law of Moses was specific to the Jews until Christ completed them, and now the Law is for all of mankind. The Law in the beginning was for all of mankind, but mankind would not listen so God used the Jews for a time to make it clear and spoke with One voice. Jesus is the voice or Word of God made flesh.
Jesus was sent by God (you say the Father God) like all others who were sent before Jesus. Jesus obeyed the God very well and conveyed the message very well. All the other messengers were human only and so was Jesus.
Mohammed was called by a spirit (you say Gabriel) unlike any other before because he is not a Jew. Mohammed did not obey the same as Jesus, doing exact opposite as Jesus.
** I cannot understand what you mean. Nobody has ever seen a mangod. 9except metaphorically).**
Jesus is God, the people saw Jesus in the flesh before being killed and after He rose Himself from the dead.
** Yes, okay. Muhammad died due to natural causes, i.e. a natural death and so did Jesus. He also died a natural death at the age of 120 years. We have been told by our prophet Muhammad who had regular communion with The God (Allah).**
Mohammed was not talking to God. The spirit that spoke to him never identified itself in 23 years of revelation. Jesus died on the cross, Mohammed died of a cold.
Please make it clear, what you want to prove. The prophet did not know the angel. He had never met him before. The angel, when he came, got hold of the prophet and told Muhammad to recite. He said he could not read or recite. Then the angel told him to recite. That meant “You recite after me.” i.e. repeat the words after me. The angel pressed the chest of the prophet and then spoke the words that had come from God (Allah)…. Those very first words are to be found in chapter 76 of the Quran.
I have proved by your own Quran/hadith, but you do not believe. Mohammed claims he is most like Jesus in this world and the next, but he is exact opposite of Jesus.
 
Well, if it’s so clewar why don’t I understand it?
If Jesus [as] is God why isn’t it mentioned in the Bible in clear terms where everyone can understand?
Also why won’t you explain it to me?

Again. Just one verse?

Gosh, chrisse. I hope you’re joking.
This thread is about the Quran. Can’t you defend it without trying to find fault elsewhere to prove your point?

If it is so clear Gabriel was the one speaking to Mohammed why don’t I understand it?
If Gabriel spoke to Muhammad for 23 years why isn’t it mentioned in the Quran in clear terms where everyone can understand?

Why will you not explain this to me?

Just one verse?
 
The manuscripts of the Qur’an which we have date back to 50 years AH, so only 40 years after the death of Muhammad. There are no NT manuscripts (I don’t know about the OT one way or the other) which date back that far in regards to Jesus–within 40 years after him. Some scholars don’t even believe many NT were texts were written by that point.
What about the injieel? You Muslims believe in the Injieel which is a book thats in the koran, and considering that the Koran came 600 years after Jesus Christ, why does your version on Jesus make it more reliable then our Holy Gospels?
 
Sister Amy;3375597:
The manuscripts of the Qur’an which we have date back to 50 years AH, so only 40 years after the death of Muhammad. There are no NT manuscripts (I don’t know about the OT one way or the other) which date back that far in regards to Jesus–within 40 years after him. Some scholars don’t even believe many NT were texts were written by that point.
What about the injieel? You Muslims believe in the Injieel which is a book thats in the koran, and considering that the Koran came 600 years after Jesus Christ, why does your version on Jesus make it more reliable then our Holy Gospels?
Why are you ignoring my questions sister Amy? In one post you said we need to use our hearts and brains, so why cant you use your brain and provide evidence to answer my questions???
 
Can we discuss this please…
109:
Al-Kafiroon - The Disbelievers

1 Say : O ye that reject Faith!
2 I worship not that which ye worship,
3 Nor will ye worship that which I worship.
4 And I will not worship that which ye have been wont to worship,
5 Nor will ye worship that which I worship.
6 To you be your Way, and to me mine.
Based on the above, who is the author addressing this to? Does anyone know?

Is it for the Jews, Christians, pagans or other?

This always caught my attention because I think it’s Sister Amy or MW who sometimes posts… “to you be your way, and to me mine”…
 
In the name of Allah , Most Gracious, Most Merciful


“to you be your way, and to me mine”…
related link:

The Declaration of Innocence from Shirk

This Surah is the Surah of disavowal from the deeds of the idolators. It commands a complete disavowal of that. Allah’s statement,

قُلْ يأَيُّهَا الْكَـفِرُونَ ]

(Say: "O disbelievers!’’) includes every disbeliever on the face of the earth, however, this statement is **particularly directed towards the disbelievers of the Quraysh. **

It has been said that in their ignorance they invited the Messenger of Allah to worship their idols for a year and they would (in turn) worship his God for a year. Therefore, Allah revealed this Surah and in it He commanded His Messenger to disavow himself from their religion completely

. Allah said,

لاَ أَعْبُدُ مَا تَعْبُدُونَ ]

(I worship not that which you worship.) meaning, statues and rival gods.

وَلاَ أَنتُمْ عَـبِدُونَ مَآ أَعْبُدُ ]

(Nor will you worship whom I worship.) and He is Allah Alone, Who has no partner. So the word Ma (what) here means Man (who). Then Allah says,

وَلاَ أَنَآ عَابِدٌ مَّا عَبَدتُّمْ وَلاَ أَنتُمْ عَـبِدُونَ مَآ أَعْبُدُ ]

(And I shall not worship that which you are worshipping. Nor will you worship whom I worship.) meaning, `I do not worship according to your worship, which means that I do not go along with it or follow it. I only worship Allah in the manner in which He loves and is pleased with.’ Thus, Allah says,

وَلاَ أَنتُمْ عَـبِدُونَ مَآ أَعْبُدُ ]

(Nor will you worship whom I worship.) meaning, `you do not follow the commands of Allah and His Legislation in His worship. Rather, you have invented something out of the promptings of your own souls.’ This is as Allah says,

إِن يَتَّبِعُونَ إِلاَّ الظَّنَّ وَمَا تَهْوَى الاٌّنفُسُ وَلَقَدْ جَآءَهُم مِّن رَّبِّهِمُ الْهُدَى]

(They follow but a guess and that which they themselves desire, whereas there has surely come to them the guidance from their Lord!) (53:23) Therefore, the disavowal is from all of what they are involved. For certainly the worshipper must have a god whom he worships and set acts of worship that he follows to get to him. So the Messenger and his followers worship Allah according to what He has legislated. This is why the statement of Islam is "There is no God worthy of being worshipped except Allah, and Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah.’’

This means that there is no (true) object of worship except Allah and there is no path to Him (i.e., way of worshipping Him) other than that which the Messenger came with. The idolators worship other than Allah, with acts of worship that Allah has not allowed. This is why the Messenger said to them,

لَكُمْ دِينُكُمْ وَلِىَ دِينِ ]

(To you be your religion, and to me my religion.) This is similar to Allah’s statement,

وَإِن كَذَّبُوكَ فَقُل لِّى عَمَلِى وَلَكُمْ عَمَلُكُمْ أَنتُمْ بَرِيئُونَ مِمَّآ أَعْمَلُ وَأَنَاْ بَرِىءٌ مِّمَّا تَعْمَلُونَ ]

(And if they belie you, say: "For me are my deeds and for you are your deeds! You are innocent of what I do, and I am innocent of what you do!’’) (10:41) and He said,

لَنَآ أَعْمَـلُنَا وَلَكُمْ أَعْمَـلُكُمْ]

(To us our deeds, and to you your deeds.) (28:55) Al-Bukhari said, "It has been said,

لَكُمْ دِينَكُمْ]

(To you be your religion.) means disbelief.

وَلِىَ دِينِ]

(and to me my religion.) means, Islam. This is the end of the Tafsir of Surat Qul ya Ayyuhal-Kafirun.

tafsir.com/default.asp?sid=109&tid=59381
 
Thanks for your reply MW -

After I read that, I started digging for more stuff to read for clarity because I doubt it that this was written for the Quraysh only and this is what I found.

All information will come from : searchtruth.com/tafsir/tafsir.php?chapter=109
[1-6] Say: "O disbelievers!1 I do not worship those whom you worship.2 Nor are you worshipers of Him Whom I worship.3 Nor am I a worshiper of those whom you have worshiped. Nor are you worshipers of Him Whom I worship.4 For you is your religion and for me is mine."5
1A few points in this verse are particularly noteworthy:
(1)Although the Holy Prophet (upon whom be peace) has been commanded to tell this to the disbelievers plainly, the theme that follows makes it explicit that every believer should tell the disbelievers plainly what has been said in the following verses; so much so that the person who has just believed and repented of kufr is also bound to express similarly his disgust with and disapproval of the creed and rites of worship and gods of kufr.
Thus, though the first addressee of the word qul (say) is the Holy Prophet (upon whom be peace) himself, the command is not restricted to him alone but it reaches every believer through him.
(2)The word "kafir’ is no abuse, which might have been used for the addressees of this verse, but it implies the one who refuses to believe, or is an unbeliever. As against it the word “mu min” is used for the believer.
**Therefore, the Holy Prophet’s saying, by Allah’s command, "O disbelievers, … ', in fact, means: “O you, who have refused to believe in my apostleship and in the teachings brought by me.” **
Likewise. **when a believer uses this word, it will imply those who do not believe in the Holy Prophet Muhammad **(upon whom be Allah’s peace and blessings),
**(3) The word used is “O kafirs” and not “O mushriks”; *therefore, the addressees are not only the mushriks but all those people who do not acknowledge Muhammad (upon whom be Allah’s peace and blessings) as Allah’s Messenger and the teachings and guidance brought by him as the teaching and guidance given by Allah Himself, whether they be Jews, Christians, Zoroastrians or the disbelievers, polytheists and pagans of the entire world. ***]
There is no reason why this address be restricted to the pagans of Quraish or of Arabia only.
**(4) To address the deniers with the word “O kafirs” is just like addressing certain people as “O enemies”, or “O opponents”. Such an address is not, in fact, directed to the person of the addressee but it is made on the basis of their characteristic of enmity and opposition, and lasts only until they are so characterized. If one of them gives up enmity and opposition, or turns a friend and supporter, he no longer remains the addressee of this word.
Likewise, the address of “O kafirs” to the people also is in view of their characteristic of kufr and not their person. This address would be perpetual for him who continues to be a kafir till death, but the one who believes will no longer be its addressee. **
The information continues if you or any one wishes to read it because it’s long, very, very long trying to define and explain the 6 verses.
 
Thanks for your reply MW -

After I read that, I started digging for more stuff to read for clarity because I doubt it that this was written for the Quraysh only and this is what I found.

All information will come from : searchtruth.com/tafsir/tafsir.php?chapter=109

The information continues if you or any one wishes to read it because it’s long, very, very long trying to define and explain the 6 verses.
This also begs the question as to the universality of the Quran as Muslims claim.
Muslims will say that the Quran says “Oh mankind” to prove that it’s meant for everyone, but how can this be so since most of the time it’s full of derogatory and hateful statements about those who do not accept its teachings.

Vickie
 
This also begs the question as to the universality of the Quran as Muslims claim.
Muslims will say that the Quran says “Oh mankind” to prove that it’s meant for everyone, but how can this be so since most of the time it’s full of derogatory and hateful statements about those who do not accept its teachings.

Vickie
Oh mankind means muslims only means submit to allah only means submit to mohamad.

From my post above which I underlined -
Sura 109 is **not **for the Quraysh only as MW stated
therefore, the addressees are not only the mushriks but all those people who do not acknowledge Muhammad (upon whom be Allah’s peace and blessings) as Allah’s Messenger and the teachings and guidance brought by him as the teaching and guidance given by Allah Himself, whether they be Jews, Christians, Zoroastrians or the disbelievers, polytheists and pagans of the entire world.
 
Originally Posted by Reuben J
From a Christian’ perspective you are right. The Quran reverts back to the dark days of pre-Messiah. It undoes what Jesus had done. In that sense it is Satanic.
**Reuben, I am surprised at your wrong conclusion… After bringing the Christian Europe out of darkness into an illuminated world through the Muslim education system at Spain, you think that Quran is taking muslims back to dark ages??

It was the Quran which made the Moors very wise and victorius. They ruled in Europe very well and esatblished good institutes of learning. The princes of the christian kingdoms used to come and learn at Cordoba and Granada. It is a well known fact of history that the Muslims brought the European Christians out of the dark ages.

Do you deny that?? If at all the muslims are bad and backward, it is not due to Quran. It is due to their own misunderstanding of their own religion. They have many false ideas such as Jihaad and definition of Kaafir etc. There are many mistakes, so much that we could hardly call them Muslims. They are of course Muslims because they beleive in Allah and the last prophet and they love allah and the last prophet and they love the Quran. But who will teach them the meanings of the Quran?? That is a major problem.**
 
**

~ *snip ***~

**But who will teach them the meanings of the Quran?? That is a major problem./**COLOR]

Well Planten,

You now have a mission in life my dear.

Instead of hanging out on Catholic forums, perhaps you should start on your jouney and educate these poor muslims as to the “meanings of the koran”.

That’s a good start and good luck on your journey! 👍

😃
 
Reuben, I am surprised at your wrong conclusion… After bringing the Christian Europe out of darkness into an illuminated world through the Muslim education system at Spain, you think that Quran is taking muslims back to dark ages??
The real story of Islam is Spain is far from the Muslim fairytale!

Jihad Galore and the Toledo Whore

How often in conversation with a Muslim, do they quote Spain as the crowning achievement of Islam, where Muslims, Jews and Christians lived in harmony for about 800 years?
And when you mention the killings and massacres, you are told that the Spanish Inquisition was much worse.
This is a misconception, since the Inquisition in Spain was responsible for only between 4,000 and 5,000 lives. [1]
Yet in 1066AD, in a single day, muslims murdered over 4,000 Jews because Vizier Joseph ibn Naghrela had risen to a position greater than them, and of course, this upset the Muslim sensitivities. [2]

**
It was the Quran which made the Moors very wise and victorius. They ruled in Europe very well and esatblished good institutes of learning. The princes of the christian kingdoms used to come and learn at Cordoba and Granada. It is a well known fact of history that the Muslims brought the European Christians out of the dark ages.
**

If this were true, why did Muslims destroy the library at Alexandria?

**
Do you deny that?? If at all the muslims are bad and backward, it is not due to Quran. It is due to their own misunderstanding of their own religion. They have many false ideas such as Jihaad and definition of Kaafir etc. There are many mistakes, so much that we could hardly call them Muslims. They are of course Muslims because they beleive in Allah and the last prophet and they love allah and the last prophet and they love the Quran. But who will teach them the meanings of the Quran?? That is a major problem.
**

It’s very simple! Muslims are backward because Islam makes them so! The Quran is full of inconsistencies, nonsense, absurdities and cruelty!

As ex-Muslim Wafa Sultan has said:
The Muslim is an irrational creature ruled by instincts. Those teachings have deprived him of his mind, incited his emotions, and reduced him to the level of an inferior creature that cannot control himself or react to events rationally.
Vickie

Vickie
 
Please do not read things literally. Jesus used to talk in parables. You still have to show something where Jesus says he is the God.
No, we don’t. The topic is the quran, not Jesus. Jesus had nothing to do with the quran.
 
Can we discuss this please…
This always caught my attention because I think it’s Sister Amy or MW who sometimes posts… “to you be your way, and to me mine”…
Some of the leading disbelievers of Makka had proposed to the Holy Prophet a compromise between Islam and their ancient faith such as they conceived it, so that their idols might also have an honorable mention in the adoration of the worshipers. The Holy Prophet (s) resisted all appeals to worldly motives, and stood firm to his message of eternal unity of Allah.

This surah breathes a spirit of uncompromising abhorrence to idolatry. There can be no common ground between the worship of “the one” and the many- monotheism and polytheism.
 
No, we don’t. The topic is the quran, not Jesus. Jesus had nothing to do with the quran.
** sedonaman, Jesus and his mother and his disciples and his grand mother are very much in the Quran, more than they are in the bible.

Jesus does not belong to you. He belongs to the Jews and the Muslims. You have followed the doctrine of Saul of Tarsus. From that point onward you had said good-bye to Jesus and his real teachings.**
 
** In the name of Allah , the Most Gracious , Ever Merciful **

http://theislampath.com/smf/Smileys/default/salam.gif
…From my post above which I underlined -
Sura 109 is **not **for the Quraysh only as MW stated
I did not say this chapter is **only for **Quraysh. I posted the context of the chapter.

The revelation came when they offered Prophet (pbuh) to worship idols for sometime ; only then they will worship Allah . Muslims can’t accept such an offer . So , God told Muhammed (pbuh) to say : To you be your religion, and to me my religion
 
**The chapter 109, (Al-Kaafiroon) was revealed in Makkah before migration. There were the Opponents who were Polytheists who were persecuting the Prophet and his companions with their hope that the believers will under pressure return to paganism.

They were mostly Quraish. But the verses address all open enemy type disbelievers ( Kaafirs) who may be found any where.

The verses of chapter 109 declare the last words from Allah to the enemies that:
  1. O, enemies (disbelievers),
  2. (Know that ) I do not worship whom you worship and I shall never worship whom you worship. (There is the present and the future found in the verse.)
  3. And you also do not worship whom I worship.
  4. And I shal never become a worshipper of those whom you worship. (idols et.)
  5. And you also do not worship whom I worship.
  6. For you is your way of life (Deen) and for me is my way of life**.
It clearly separated the believers from the utter hostile disbelievers forever. So that there was no hope for the enemies that Muslims will ever adopt paganism again.

It is also a message of Peace from the Prophet to the pagans and all opposing nations that there is no need to fight for the religion. Every one can keep to their own faith. No harm at all. Islam allows every one to keep to their own faith. There is not to be any pressure or compulsion in the matters of faith.

The Prophet was not any political person. He did not want to snatch any ones property or state. If he was not disturbed or attacked, he would not resort to any fighting. The fighting which was done by the prophet was only to defend his people or to open the way for peaceful unarmed propagation of all faiths. That was to set free every one in the matters of faith.

That was necessary that people should be set free. Because it was through the politics that kings like Pharoah (and the other king, Nimrod who persecuted Abraham) had taken people as hostages and were ruling them unjustly.

It was due to the collaboration of the political and malafide (paganistic) high ups that poor people were being fooled and ruled under the umbrella of Polytheism.

It was necessary to eradicate paganism. That was the mission of the last prophet. He did not mind who ruled the world.
 
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