The quran

[sedonaman]

** You have followed the doctrine of Saul of Tarsus. From that point onward you had said good-bye to Jesus and his real teachings.**

The problem with your assertion is that Paul condemned those who followed others instead of Jesus. But back to the quran:

There is no evidence other than hearsay that Mohammed is any kind of “prophet” of Allah or any other god. The quaran is a mish-mash of incoherence resulting form a primitive attempt to copy ideas from the Bible:

Since he produced no miracles, Mohammed had only one method of validation that he was not just making things up – his appeal to other known apostles and scriptures as confirmation of his own message.

But…

Mohammed and Islam contradict what the quran itself repeatedly declares to be God’s apostles and God’s scriptures.

Therefore …

Islam is in error through contradiction, not just contradiction with Judeo-Christianity, but contradiction with itself because of the endorsement claims made by the quran.

In addition, if Islam is true, then Christianity makes no sense since Islam contradicts Christianity while affirming it. On the other hand, if Christianity is true, Islam can be easily explained as a product of normal human affairs and ambitions, and Mohammed as in fact one of the false prophets predicted by Jesus, and just one more despot who discovered that you can get more booty with a kind word and a sword than you can with just a kind word.

Conclusion:

Mohammed made up the quran or was delusional [or both].

 

[sedonaman]

**
The Prophet was not any political person. He did not want to snatch any ones property or state. If he was not disturbed or attacked, he would not resort to any fighting.
**

We are wise to this claim. The mere existence of a non-believer is a disturbance or attack on Mohammed and/or Islam. This comes from the idea that the world is divided into the house of Islam and the house of war. War [disturbance and / or attacks], by definition originate with the house of war, so all wars fought by Muslims are “defensive”. What a laugh if it weren’t so tragic.

 

[planten]

**Please amend the first verse in my post #109 to read as follows:

1. Say "O, enemies (disbelievers).

I forgot to write the word “Say” which was an important part in actual Arabic. It was a command from Allah to Muhammad to declare (i.e. to Say) to the fanatic disbelievers…**

 

[rtconstant]

Reuben, I am surprised at your wrong conclusion… After bringing the Christian Europe out of darkness into an illuminated world through the Muslim education system at Spain, you think that Quran is taking muslims back to dark ages??

Christianity brought Western Europe out of the Dark Ages. The evidence of that is that Western Europe was populated mostly by Barbarians yet once the message of Christ spread throughout the continent Europe’s history is one of continual legal, philosophical, cultural, and spiritual progression.

It was the Quran which made the Moors very wise and victorius. They ruled in Europe very well and esatblished good institutes of learning. The princes of the christian kingdoms used to come and learn at Cordoba and Granada. It is a well known fact of history that the Muslims brought the European Christians out of the dark ages.

 

[planten]

Christianity brought Western Europe out of the Dark Ages. The evidence of that is that Western Europe was populated mostly by Barbarians yet once the message of Christ spread throughout the continent Europe’s history is one of continual legal, philosophical, cultural, and spiritual progression.

** Europe was christian in years 620 A.D. But we know that they were barbarians as you have mentioned. They were actually in dark ages. They (The Christians) saw the light in Spain and started running to Spain in years 700 A.D. **

You’re right that it is a major problem but if all of these people are so ignorant of the Quran, those that have a “right” understanding of Mohammed’s book are a severe minority. Why is it that you think your understanding is superior to all of these Muslim nations?

**I am right. Thanks. I try to understand things. If I see some mistakes (some mistakes) in the Muslims understanding of the scripture then I honestly try to mention it peacefully. Some of my co-religionists may not like that.

Similarly I read the bible and see many mistakes in it and I see many mistakes in the working of the catholics. So I mention that too. I am a very low level (not learned person) Muslim. I do notclaim to be any scholar. But I study the works of the scholars and the original text of the scripture. I try to take the best and simple meaning of things.

I have no problem with many works of Jesus as descrbed in Mathew. I agree with all that. I wish that you people had found something good in the Quran. You only need to admit few things. That is not very difficult.**

 

[sedonaman]

Christianity brought Western Europe out of the Dark Ages. The evidence of that is that Western Europe was populated mostly by Barbarians yet once the message of Christ spread throughout the continent Europe’s history is one of continual legal, philosophical, cultural, and spiritual progression.

This is common error of Muslim apologists. The lands that Islam conquered were already sophisticated. Islam stole the lands of the Christian Greeks, Romans, and Phoenicians, and the pagan Persians and Indians. All of these civilizations were advanced and prosperous. Islam simply rested on the Pagan, Jewish and Christian achievements that preceded them. Islam irrevocably wrecked the cradle of civilization. The evidence of this is that when Islam absorbed the most advanced cultures on earth, those great nations of North Africa and Central Asia stagnated while the rest of the world progressed.

 

[sedonaman]

**
… If at all the muslims are bad and backward, it is not due to Quran. It is due to their own misunderstanding of their own religion. They have many false ideas such as Jihaad and definition of Kaafir etc. There are many mistakes, so much that we could hardly call them Muslims. They are of course Muslims because they beleive in Allah and the last prophet and they love allah and the last prophet and they love the Quran. But who will teach them the meanings of the Quran?? That is a major problem.**

So please explain why there are no Islamic scholar voices to be heard that criticized these “misunderstandings” and to teach the “correct” way of the Qur’an. Why is there no one to “teach them the meanings of the Qur’an”? There were apparently plenty of scholars to go around because you yourself said that princes from all over Europe came to Muslim-ruled Cordoba to learn from them.