The Rapture, if it were to happen

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But in the 1830s, an Irish Protestant named John Nelson Darby began to preach the idea of a pre-tribulational Rapture. He spread this view in his own group, known as the Plymouth Brethren, and founded a new theological school in Protestantism. This school—Dispensationalism—holds that human history is divided into a number of distinct dispensations (ages) in which God deals with man in very different ways. Thus Dispensationalists frequently do not allow doctrinal appeals to be made to various parts of Scripture, arguing that they apply to a different dispensation than the one we live in (the “Church age”).

There is an element of truth to this idea. By unveiling the Law of Christ (cf. 1 Cor. 9:21; Gal. 6:2), Jesus superceded the Law of Moses, which had previously regulated the obligations of the Jewish people toward God. But Dispensationalism carries this idea too far. In extreme forms of the view (known as ultra-dispensationalism) it is claimed that only a tiny portion of the New Testament (such as the pastoral epistles) is relevant to us today.

The fact that Christians generally acknowledge that God relates to men somewhat differently in different ages has led some to suggest that Dispensationalism has been misnamed. Its distinctive tenet is really not the existence of dispensations but the particular end-time system it espouses: pre-tribulational pre-millennialism.

This is what most characterizes Dispensationalism. Advocates of the view have a difficult time pointing to any believers in this system prior to John Nelson Darby. They do propose a few possible precursors for the view, but despite their best efforts it is clear that the idea of a pre-tribulational Rapture was something Darby popularized and that it was either virtually or entirely unknown prior to that time.

Darby’s ideas were taken up in America by a former Confederate soldier named Cyrus Ingerson (“C. I.”) Scofield, who incorporated them into the explanatory material in his Scofield Reference Bible. This became very popular in America since, at the time, there were few Protestant study Bibles. The appearance of dispensational ideas in the notes within the Bible itself led many to regard these as assured theological conclusions, and the view spread. The Scofield Reference Bible was one of the key factors leading to the growth and eventual dominance of the pre-trib, pre-mil position in American Evangelicalism. Also important were Dispensationalist schools such as Dallas Theological Seminary and the Bible Institute of Los Angeles.

After achieving dominance in the 1970s, this view began to decline in the 1980s, with many turning back to historical pre-millennialism, post-millennialism, and amillenialism. However, with the publications of the Left Behind books in the 1990s, the movement has been re-energized, and it is quite likely that Left Behind will play a role similar to the Scofield Reference Bible and The Late Great Planet Earth in sustaining and popularizing the idea of a pre-trib Rapture.
[ LINK](But in the 1830s, an Irish Protestant named John Nelson Darby began to preach the idea of a pre-tribulational Rapture. He spread this view in his own group, known as the Plymouth Brethren, and founded a new theological school in Protestantism. This school—Dispensationalism—holds that human history is divided into a number of distinct dispensations (ages) in which God deals with man in very different ways. Thus Dispensationalists frequently do not allow doctrinal appeals to be made to various parts of Scripture, arguing that they apply to a different dispensation than the one we live in (the “Church age”).[/COLOR)

So…
  1. There ain’t no “Rapture”
  2. It ain’t scriptural
  3. In view of them other two… Catholics ain’t gonna b’lieve in it.
    Pax vobiscum,
 
Please overlook Mr. MacPherson’s claims about pre-trib rapture and all that and just look at the chronology of the teachings about the rapture. It is clearly a 19th century theological construct not known or believed before 1825.

The so-called biblical evidence for the rapture is what is termed a “string of pearls” citing of several Bible verses from both the OT and NT strung together to try to “prove” the rapture was believed and taught by the early Church. Nothing could be farther from the truth. There’s no evidence for such a belief in the Early Church Fathers or anything else written at the time.

And btw, as a former member of the Assemblies of God with a B. A. in Bible and religious education, I learned all about it and so know what I’m talking about. 😉
 
Church Militant:
The truth is that this whole teaching was concocted by a Church of Ireland preacher just a bit over 150 years ago. You can’t even find it prior to that.

Ireland? Isn’t that the place where they believe in the little people and that there is a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow? Ah tis wonderful to have an active imagination! Imagine that the rapture happens and all the Catholics are snatched up and disappear and all the bloody protestants are “Left Behind.” Now that’s imagination!
 
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Northwind:
I used to watch Jack Van Impe back in the day. He and his wife would scour the headlines and try to associate the daily news with bible prophesy. After 9-11 his very next show was all about terrorism and how what had happened was revealed in scripture…totally lost all respect for the guy, haven’t seen a show since.
He basically agrees with the Left Behind books interpretation of what will happen, but on his behalf, I read a book he wrote about how when he realized he had been guilty of bashing Catholics he repented of it and realized they were his Christian brothers and sisters. Because of this he lost many of his minister friends in the protestant world who will no longer have anything to do with him. He points out that we should not look to our differences but to what we share in common, one God, Jesus born of the virgin Mary, died for our sins and rose from the dead and is coming again. I have to admire him for that, even if I don’t agree with his interpretation of “end times” theology.

In essentials unity.
In non-essentials charity
In all things to glorify Christhttp://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon14.gif
 
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malachi_a_serva:
Hi guys, if you will all bear with me. I have an extremely busy weekend @ work, probably 40 hrs in the next 3 days…but I would like to respond to show a few things. How the Rapture, in my opinion and how I have been taught it, is biblical…and how it was believed by the early church. I appreciate all the responses and look forward to replyinh on many of them. Until then, God Bless and Adios. 🙂
If a host turned into literal flesh and blood on the altar at a Mass, would you change your theology? I want to know that you are willing to admit the same things you are asking us to. If we are going to say we would change our theology if proof was given, I want to know if you would too. Would you?
 
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mercygate:
I would not care about the subject at all except that I have a good friend (Plymouth Brethren) who is totally convinced of this stuff, and I need to understand it for his sake.
Margaret Macdonald of the Plymouth Brethren is the woman that gave birth to the “secret rapture” doctrine that has infested so much of American Protestantism: Margaret Macdonald’s Original Pretribulation Vision
 
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malachi_a_serva:
would Catholics concede they were wrong? I mean, lets just say one day, just like in the “Left Behind” series, a bunch of us non-Cs and perhaps even some Cs just vanished.

Would Catholics rethink their theology or if the RCC was the True Church? Just hypothetical? And lets be honest.
Why bother answering hypotheticals that will never come true?
 
Eileen T:
Let’s be blunt.

The RCC is not just another Christian denomination. We are either 100% RIGHT or we are soooo wrong that we are committing idolatry by literally worshipping bread and wine.

If we are wrong about the ‘Rapture’ it will be insignificant compared to that.

I am a Catholic by conviction. I believe that Bread and Wine, when consecrated by a validly ordained priest, becomes the actual Body and Blood of Christ (John 6:50-60). I am prepared to die for this belief.
As am I.

The bottom line here is that the rapture people are just doing something else to try and justify the reformation and their break with the RCC. Bottom line is that they are now moving to scare tactics to get it done. In my opinion, having been exposed to the “Left Behind” crowd, it is just another load of **** that can’t be justified by anything other than a bunch of fundamentalists that have to scare people into submission.

Brad
 
Church Militant:
But in the 1830s, an Irish Protestant named John Nelson Darby began to preach the idea of a pre-tribulational Rapture. He spread this view in his own group, known as the Plymouth Brethren, and founded a new theological school in Protestantism. This school—Dispensationalism—holds that human history is divided into a number of distinct dispensations (ages) in which God deals with man in very different ways. Thus Dispensationalists frequently do not allow doctrinal appeals to be made to various parts of Scripture, arguing that they apply to a different dispensation than the one we live in (the “Church age”).

There is an element of truth to this idea. By unveiling the Law of Christ (cf. 1 Cor. 9:21; Gal. 6:2), Jesus superceded the Law of Moses, which had previously regulated the obligations of the Jewish people toward God. But Dispensationalism carries this idea too far. In extreme forms of the view (known as ultra-dispensationalism) it is claimed that only a tiny portion of the New Testament (such as the pastoral epistles) is relevant to us today.

The fact that Christians generally acknowledge that God relates to men somewhat differently in different ages has led some to suggest that Dispensationalism has been misnamed. Its distinctive tenet is really not the existence of dispensations but the particular end-time system it espouses: pre-tribulational pre-millennialism.

This is what most characterizes Dispensationalism. Advocates of the view have a difficult time pointing to any believers in this system prior to John Nelson Darby. They do propose a few possible precursors for the view, but despite their best efforts it is clear that the idea of a pre-tribulational Rapture was something Darby popularized and that it was either virtually or entirely unknown prior to that time.

Darby’s ideas were taken up in America by a former Confederate soldier named Cyrus Ingerson (“C. I.”) Scofield, who incorporated them into the explanatory material in his Scofield Reference Bible. This became very popular in America since, at the time, there were few Protestant study Bibles. The appearance of dispensational ideas in the notes within the Bible itself led many to regard these as assured theological conclusions, and the view spread. The Scofield Reference Bible was one of the key factors leading to the growth and eventual dominance of the pre-trib, pre-mil position in American Evangelicalism. Also important were Dispensationalist schools such as Dallas Theological Seminary and the Bible Institute of Los Angeles.

After achieving dominance in the 1970s, this view began to decline in the 1980s, with many turning back to historical pre-millennialism, post-millennialism, and amillenialism. However, with the publications of the Left Behind books in the 1990s, the movement has been re-energized, and it is quite likely that Left Behind will play a role similar to the Scofield Reference Bible and The Late Great Planet Earth in sustaining and popularizing the idea of a pre-trib Rapture.
[ LINK](But in the 1830s, an Irish Protestant named John Nelson Darby began to preach the idea of a pre-tribulational Rapture. He spread this view in his own group, known as the Plymouth Brethren, and founded a new theological school in Protestantism. This school—Dispensationalism—holds that human history is divided into a number of distinct dispensations (ages) in which God deals with man in very different ways. Thus Dispensationalists frequently do not allow doctrinal appeals to be made to various parts of Scripture, arguing that they apply to a different dispensation than the one we live in (the “Church age”).[/COLOR)

So…
  1. There ain’t no “Rapture”
  2. It ain’t scriptural
  3. In view of them other two… Catholics ain’t gonna b’lieve in it.
    Pax vobiscum,
Hello Church Militant and all the others. Sorry, as I mentioned I am really tied up this weekend. I will respond once I have more time and can articulate properly. Church Militant, thank you for your info. I do learn allot from you and your posts here will be reviewed by myself in detail. I always thought (as well) it was a 150 yr old teaching…however have been exposed to some other points that I will throw out there.
 
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Marquette:
He basically agrees with the Left Behind books interpretation of what will happen, but on his behalf, I read a book he wrote about how when he realized he had been guilty of bashing Catholics he repented of it and realized they were his Christian brothers and sisters. Because of this he lost many of his minister friends in the protestant world who will no longer have anything to do with him. He points out that we should not look to our differences but to what we share in common, one God, Jesus born of the virgin Mary, died for our sins and rose from the dead and is coming again. I have to admire him for that, even if I don’t agree with his interpretation of “end times” theology.
Hi Marquette. He does preach Catholics are Christians and Brothers and Sisters in Christ. For this Fundamentalists have turned their back on him. I admire him for it. I value what he says as I value opinions of many others.
 
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malachi_a_serva:
Hi Marquette. He does preach Catholics are Christians and Brothers and Sisters in Christ. For this Fundamentalists have turned their back on him. I admire him for it. I value what he says as I value opinions of many others.
So we are to accept a wrong theology just because he said something nice about Catholics?
 
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mastda:
So we are to accept a wrong theology just because he said something nice about Catholics?
Hi everyone, well I have some time so shall formulate my thoughts on a later post. Hi mastda, I never said anything about accepting anyone’s theology. You say his theology is wrong. That is fine you are free to think that. I believe his ministry is funded largely by Catholics. Interesting, they are Catholic in name, but believe his Theology. How do I know this? Well, he comments on letters etc. on his show (not sure if you are aware or not)…lots of Catholic letters.

Anyway, I shall present one side of the Rapture belief later tonight.

🙂
 
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Lazerlike42:
Would you?
Hi Lazerlike42. My first reactive response was going to be a “yes”. However, I believe Satan can imitate many miracles. However he cannot imitate fruit of the Spirit. Miracles, yes he can do. So, by bread turning into actual “flesh” and wine into “actual” blood (which it is from a Catholic view point anyway, I would not concede just on that.

I would base my concessions on “evidence of fruit of the spirit” more than a miracle.

🙂
 
Okay check out this senario…

The Left Behind books and the works and popularity of Hal Lindsey is so wide spread that even atheists know about what they teach…
Now…if a Rapture WERE to happen just as they say it would…I have a feeling that the Antichrist would have a seriously harder time trying to buy the world over on his ideas of peace, don’t you think. I mean think of all the people left behind saying.“Hey WE KNOW WHO YOU ARE!!! GET HIM!!!” There will be mile long lines a Barnes and Nobles worldwide and since the script has been written up so well, there is no more surprise, no more suspense.

Now, back to reality…
What’s gonna happen to all these Rapture believers when they realize that the Antichrist is here and we haven’t gone anywhere? We’re talking about a serious mental blow to their minds man. I don’t know if they’ll be able to handle it. :confused:
 
Church Militant:
But in the 1830s, an Irish Protestant named John Nelson Darby began to preach the idea of a pre-tribulational Rapture. He spread this view in his own group, known as the Plymouth Brethren, and founded a new theological school in Protestantism.

Hello Church Militant. Here are some of my findings:

Catholic Priests that believe and preach on the Rapture and some of their books:

keepthefaith.org/detail.aspx?ID=189

catholictreasures.com/cartdescrip/11118.html

maryscall.com/thomas_petrisko.htm his book Call of the Ages

(You may note these are Catholic sites above)

marianland.com/proph008.html

marianland.com/proph007.html

catholicbook.com/catholicbook/tan1.htm

These books are:

Hope of the Wicked by Ted and Marie Flynn
Call of the Ages by Thomas Petrisko
The Reign of the AntiChrist by Fr. John O’Conner
The Reign of the AntiChrist by Fr. R. Gerald Culleton
The Raptured By Tumbler and Funk taught by Bishop Doughrty

Archbishop Fulton J. Sheen believed in the Rapture and taught it.
Church Father Saint Victorninus preached Rapture in 270 AD.

More later
 
Church Militant:
But in the 1830s, an Irish Protestant named John Nelson Darby began to preach the idea of a pre-tribulational Rapture. He spread this view in his own group, known as the Plymouth Brethren, and founded a new theological school in Protestantism.
Not so according to my findings:

150 AD, the Rapture idea was preached by the Shepherd of Hermas. Then in 270 AD Victorinus, the Bishop of Pettau, a Catholic leader preached it. 350 AD Ephraim the Syrian
In 400 AD, Jerome in the Latin vulgate as you have already indicated used the word Rapiamore which means Rapture, or Caught Up to describe the Rapture, some 1600 Years ago! In 1304 AD, Reverend Dolcino 1955 AD Hugh Latimer, burned at the stake for his faith said: “It may come in my days, old as I am, or in my children’s days, the saints shall be taken up to meet Christ in the air and so shall come down with him again.” In **1627 AD **Joseph Medde a iteralist used the word “rapture.” In 1627AD, Joseph Mede 1627 AD Increase Mather 1687AD, Peter Jurieu 1700 AD John Asgill 1738AD, Philip Doddridge **1742/44 AD **Morgan Edwards 1748AD John Gill 1763AD, James McKnight 1792AD, Thomas Scott **then in 1830AD John Darby also taught and preached it. **

Now even if it were just taught 200 yrs ago, not hard to understand as people needed time to READ and GET TO KNOW THEIR BIBLE since for centeries they were read it from the pulpate butnit able to read it on their own. So it would make sence that people needed time to familiarize themselves to scripture. However, as above, Rapture gors way back.
 
OK, I would like to see the link on Fulton Sheen teaching the rapture. I can’t seem to find anything of the kind. Regarding St. Victorinus, I refer you to New Advent’s listing for him. I think it might be a little more accurate to see what is said in context.

As for the rest; individual priests or laity can have opinions on all sorts of topics, but that does not make it Catholic teaching. Book jacket blurbs aside, I have not seen the actual books themselves and so cannot tell if the descriptions given of the content are accurate. But the Church’s teachings on the subject of the end times are clear. In fact, they are right here on this site! Here is the link:

catholic.com/library/Rapture.asp
 
Biblical evidence that the Rapture happened in the past.

Enoch in Genesis 5:24:
Elijah in II Kings 2:11.
Jesus in Acts 1:9.
The two (2) witnesses in Rev. 11:12

All of them vanished/raptured. 👍

😃
 
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