K
Kathy_Ryan
Guest
I’m talking to a rapture believing lady at work, where is that in the bible? What bible scripture can I give her to show it isn’t true?
- Status
P
Pixie_Dust
Guest
Well, first of all, the word “rapture” isn’t in the Bible. So if she claims to be a Bible Only Christian then such words as rapture and Trinity should not be in her vocabulary.
1 Thessalonians 4:15-17 is the verse she probably hangs her doctrine on.
The Catholic church does not totally reject the idea of a rapture, but believe it will happen at the Second Coming of Christ at the end of time, not before.
This passage actually mirrors the ancient custom, when someone important would come into a town or city, such as a king or general, and many of the people would go out and greet this person outside the town or city, and then accompany them back into town. It would be an insult NOT to go out and greet this important person. This happens today, when the President flies into an airport, a lot of people go out to greet him and escort him back to town. That’s how the Early Church Fathers (St. Augustine, St. John of Chrysostum) read this passage. When Christ returns, those who are caught up to meet Him in the air are escorting Him to the earth; this passage does not say that these people meet Jesus in the air, and then Jesus turns around with them and goes back to Heaven! How do we know this is not what happens?
Revelation 21:1-3 1 Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth. The former heaven and the former earth had passed away, and the sea was no more. 2 I also saw the holy city, a new Jerusalem, 3 coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, "Behold, God’s dwelling is with the human race. He will dwell with them and they will be his people and God himself will always be with them (as their God).
Just as the Lord descends from Heaven to earth, so also the New Jerusalem descends from Heaven, because Jesus brings Heaven with Him!! The idea that the Lord will descend from Heaven, stop somewhere above the earth and gather believers, then turn right around to go back to Heaven is an interpretation that cannot be supported by the rest of Scripture and is not supported by any writings of the Early Church.
Notice in I Thess. 4 that it’s not just the living who are caught up, but also the dead in Christ. This is the resurrection of the dead. So rapture believers have to believe, that Christians who have died will rise from the grave and disappear as well. There is a BIG problem with this:
John 6:54 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him on the last day.
Jesus is talking about believers, Christians, whom He will raise on the LAST DAY.
John 6:39 And this is the will of the one who sent me…but that I should raise it (on) the last day.
John 6:44 … and I will raise him on the last day.
John 11:24 Martha said to him, “I know he will rise again, in the resurrection on the last day.”
Why would Lazarus have to wait until the last day to be resurrected? Why wouldn’t he be caught up at the Rapture? Because there is NO RAPTURE before the LAST DAY.
Matthew 24:37-41, Luke 17:26-36
The Coming of the Son of Man with some being taken and some being left, is being compared to the days of Noah and the days of Lot. After the flood, who was left behind? Noah and his family! The good guys! Who was taken by the flood? The bad guys! After Sodom was destroyed, who was left behind? Lot and his daughters! The good guys! The bad folks were destroyed, taken away. So if there is a “Rapture” you don’t want to be one of the ones taken away! If you want to live like Noah and Lot, you want to be left behind! Those who are left behind in I Thessalonians 4 are caught up meet the Lord in the air and go with Him to the New Jerusalem. The folks who are taken are thrown into the Lake of Fire.
Matthew 24:3-13, 21-24 (Cf Mark 13:5-13; Luke 21:7-28), II Thessalonians 2:1-12, Daniel 8:17-25, Daniel 7:25, Revelation 13:5-10
In all of these passages, the Antichrist destroys the saints, the elect, the followers of Christ. BUT if all the Christians have been raptured, then who are these saints that the Antichrist destroys? If all the Christians are gone, who is left to teach these so-called new believers about Jesus?
(to be cont’d)
P
Pixie_Dust
Guest
I Corinthians 15:20-24 20 But now Christ has been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. 21 For since death came through a human being, the resurrection of the dead came also through a human being. 22 For just as in Adam all die, so too in Christ shall all be brought to life, 23 but each one in proper order: Christ the firstfruits; then, at his coming, those who belong to Christ; 24 then comes the end, 10 when he hands over the kingdom to his God and Father, when he has destroyed every sovereignty and every authority and power.
Coming. Singular. Not Comings. All the dead in Christ are raised at the same time, at the END, when Christ delivers the Kingdom to God the Father. So much for the literal thousand year reign of Christ.
Hebrews 9:27-28 Just as it is appointed that human beings die once, and after this the judgment, so also Christ, offered once to take away the sins of many, 20 will appear a second time, not to take away sin but to bring salvation to those who eagerly await him.
Teaching on the Rapture first appeared in the late 18th and early 19th centuries. It gained popularity by the efforts of John Darby. He preached the Rapture in England, the US and Canada between 1850-1870 to people of thousands of different Protestant denominations, so most of the current teaching on the Rapture can be traced back to only about 150 years ago.
For the full lecture that these notes came from (and lots more Bible verses!) go to the Bible Christian Society and download The Rapture and the Bible. It’s free!
Coming. Singular. Not Comings. All the dead in Christ are raised at the same time, at the END, when Christ delivers the Kingdom to God the Father. So much for the literal thousand year reign of Christ.
Hebrews 9:27-28 Just as it is appointed that human beings die once, and after this the judgment, so also Christ, offered once to take away the sins of many, 20 will appear a second time, not to take away sin but to bring salvation to those who eagerly await him.
Teaching on the Rapture first appeared in the late 18th and early 19th centuries. It gained popularity by the efforts of John Darby. He preached the Rapture in England, the US and Canada between 1850-1870 to people of thousands of different Protestant denominations, so most of the current teaching on the Rapture can be traced back to only about 150 years ago.
For the full lecture that these notes came from (and lots more Bible verses!) go to the Bible Christian Society and download The Rapture and the Bible. It’s free!
C
Church_Militant
Guest
Excellent source so far with John Martignoni’s MP3 Bible study. By all means download that and burn it it to a disc (after listening to it yourself of course!) and the give it to her along with a copy of his notes which can be found here.
I also cover this and have links to his study in an article that I wrote for my Catholic apologetics blog Apocalypsis
The Rapture?
- Status