The Rapture?

  • Thread starter Thread starter The_Catholic
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
dear jonfan,

might I also add that I wholeheartedly agree (👍 ) with the fact that our personal sanctification and serving the Lord and neighbor must take precedence over all pursuit of truth, whether of the apoc, or any other thing. Agreed! I agree, we should have a balance between growing in knowledge, and putting knowledge into action, for, as we all know on this forum, “Faith without works is dead!” 🙂
 
gelsbern,
When confronted with those preaching the rapture theology, I ask them a series of simple questions.
  1. God is the same as he as always been, correct?
    (Here they would of course need to answer yes)
  1. After the flood, who was left behind?
    (Noah and his family)
  1. After Sodom and Gomorrah, who was left behind.
    (Lot and his family, except his wife)
  1. So if God is the same as he has always been, and after major events in the bible, the righteous were the ones left behind, if there some event brought on by God where people are taken away, who will be left behind?
I leave them to think about it.
I wouldn’t pat yourself on the back too hard. Apparently those evangelicals with whom you practice this formula, are as equally distracted by their dispensational views as you are by your supersessional.

The OT illustrations of the Deluge, and Sodom and Gomorrah illustrate ‘spiritual’ truths, they don’t necessarily illustrate the earthly church age dispensation.

John
www.gideonsword.net
 
I’m not talking about “when” in the sense of “the day or the hour.” I think this is the entire problem I am talking about: most Catholics and liberal Prots simply are not capable of understanding what “middle of the road” means. They assume that anything other than liberal preterism is “fundamentalism”, like knowing “dates of future events”, or how individual nations will destroy one another or where earthquakes will occur at the “very end”. I am not talking about that in any sense.

I am talking about deep psychological and spiritual questions about the God’s spiritual plan to redeem the human race. Questions like, “We have seen that because of sin, the clergy of the Church fell into general laxity, and because of their scandal, Christians have become tragically and disastrously divided. In turn, this division has truly led to a great loss of faith, even, if you will, an apostasy. So what happens from here (not in TEMPORAL terms, but SPIRITUALLY): Will the grace of God restore Christian unity? And, to whatever degree it is, will the reunion restore the faith in the societies that have lost it? Or will the scandal of first the Church and later of all Christians NOT be healed, and man will NOT be able to learn from scandal and be restored to faith. That is, will the scandal of Christian confusion and hypocrisy indellibly wound man’s ability to be restored?”

I am not saying that you are somehow in danger of losing your salvation simply because you are either not aware of these questions or do not really care about them. But, on the other hand, I am a person who desires to CONTINUALLY grow in my understanding of God and His religion, and since I have already become well versed in basic Catholic theology and apologetics, I am moving on into uncharted territory, in part, because I wish to understand God more, in order that I might love Him more, but also that, deeper knowledge of the deposit of faith in Catholicism can only improve ecumenical relations, for the more we understand God, the better we can dialogue with our separated brethren.

Moreover, seeing as the apocalypse is, in its ultimate sense, concerned with the ultimate SPIRITUAL meaning and course of human history, there is obviously much spiritual developments (and digressions) that have occurred since the Early Church, things that are truly at the forefront of doctrine and the salvation of mankind, seeing as they involve the Church herself. And so, if the Apocalypse is truly about the history, and since the Bible is Catholic, it must be saying something about that history and what is then the Plan for how God will SPIRITUALLY complete the Redemption of humanity in and through the Church.

And seeing as there is this great crisis in history at our time, these historical questions are highly pertinent to our time, and if we are to provide the best answers that we can in ecumenical dialogue, I would say that serious investigation of these questions need to be taken, so that we can grow in the very Christian unity that the Church prays for.
Hi,
I agree with you completely. I learn something new about God every time I study His Word. God wants us to have the deep spiritual connection you are talking about. He longs for us to get to know Him on a personal level. The bible is His love letter to us.

I would like unity as well, but after being on these forums I just dont see it happening.😦 It is very discouraging. It would have to start with each individual reaching out to someone else. Like you reaching out to me.😃 But the other person has to accept it. I think you have come to that realization and I for one appreciate it.😃
Thank you Spauline
 
I don’t worry about the end of the world either. …The apocalyptic data cannot be ABSOLUTELY irrelevant, for then why is it in Scripture? Why is it in Tradition? …
“Worry” about the end of the world? No, but I think about it “in joyful hope”.I think Scripture records it to offer us hope. As my parents aged, suffered illness and eventually died, I find hope in the words of 1 Thessalonians, (which many Protestants misinterpret to fit the rapture theory.) When facing death, we can find comfort that Jesus destroyed death and at the end of the world we shall rise again with Him.

We rarely discuss what the Creed means when we say “we believe in the resurrection of the body”, but we say those words at every Mass. The Catechism explains it in CCC 988-1014 (quoting Thessalonians and other Bible verses.) Here’s a bit from that section:

988 The Christian Creed—the profession of our faith in God, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, and in God’s creative, saving, and sanctifying action—culminates in the proclamation of the resurrection of the dead on the last day and in life everlasting.

989 We firmly believe, and hence we hope that, just as Christ is truly risen from the dead and lives for ever, so after death the righteous will live for ever with the risen Christ and he will raise them up on the last day.* Our resurrection, like his own, will be the work of the Most Holy Trinity:*
  • If the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, he who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will give life to your mortal bodies also through his Spirit who dwells in you.
    1001 When? Definitively “at the last day,” “at the end of the world.”* Indeed, the resurrection of the dead is closely associated with Christ’s Parousia:*
  • For the Lord himself will descend from heaven, with a cry of command, with the archangel’s call, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.
 
Hi,
I agree with you completely. I learn something new about God every time I study His Word. God wants us to have the deep spiritual connection you are talking about. He longs for us to get to know Him on a personal level. The bible is His love letter to us.

I would like unity as well, but after being on these forums I just dont see it happening.😦 It is very discouraging. It would have to start with each individual reaching out to someone else. Like you reaching out to me.😃 But the other person has to accept it. I think you have come to that realization and I for one appreciate it.😃
Thank you Spauline
thank you for your response, allforHim.

Actually, I don’t see unity happening by a “gradual sense”. I see unity happening only through an epic chastisement that serves to show all the errors of heresy and for what they are.

That is not merely my opinion, that is the consensus of countless fully approved mystics. Countless of them speak of a minor apostasy and tribulation that serve as the mechanism of unveiling the darkness for what it is. Currently, the world considers secular materialism to be the “light”, and they are indifferent to religion. Hence, as in Rev 11, they “send gifts to one another” to celebrate the “death” of the Catholic “witness”, Scripture and Tradition. But when the Minor Chastisement comes it will show all the various anti-Catholic errors for what they are: anything from Muslims and Orthodoxy, to Protestants and full apostates.

Just as a very perfect example: there are these myriads of evangelicals who believe that they will be “raptured away” before the terrible events. But when the Minor Chastisement comes (if or when it does), ALL humanity will suffer, including Christians of all persuasions. Hence, if all these evangelicals experience these horrors, it will deal a most deadly blow to their “rapture theories”. Similarly, other things will be shown for what they are, such as the devastating effects of artificial birth control and abortion.

Never underestimate the power of disciplinary suffering from God. Don’t believe me? Look at the OT: just prior to the Babylonian Exile, the Jews were content in their OT apostasy and were oblivious to the warnings of the prophets. But in and through the Babylonian chastisement, they were shocked into their ungratefulness and sin, and eventually they were restored to the Old Covenant and Homeland. In light of the mystics, the parallel of this will occur in the NT cov, and, again, according to EWTN experts Birch and Donovan, we live on the verge of this chastisement, but also, inevitably, the great restoration of Catholicism.

For more info, I can send you a link on the “Two Witnesses”, if you like.

Blessings!
 
“Worry” about the end of the world? No, but I think about it “in joyful hope”.I think Scripture records it to offer us hope. As my parents aged, suffered illness and eventually died, I find hope in the words of 1 Thessalonians, (which many Protestants misinterpret to fit the rapture theory.) When facing death, we can find comfort that Jesus destroyed death and at the end of the world we shall rise again with Him.

We rarely discuss what the Creed means when we say “we believe in the resurrection of the body”, but we say those words at every Mass. The Catechism explains it in CCC 988-1014 (quoting Thessalonians and other Bible verses.) Here’s a bit from that section:

988 The Christian Creed—the profession of our faith in God, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, and in God’s creative, saving, and sanctifying action—culminates in the proclamation of the resurrection of the dead on the last day and in life everlasting.

989 We firmly believe, and hence we hope that, just as Christ is truly risen from the dead and lives for ever, so after death the righteous will live for ever with the risen Christ and he will raise them up on the last day.* Our resurrection, like his own, will be the work of the Most Holy Trinity:*
  • If the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, he who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will give life to your mortal bodies also through his Spirit who dwells in you.
    1001 When? Definitively “at the last day,” “at the end of the world.”* Indeed, the resurrection of the dead is closely associated with Christ’s Parousia:*
  • For the Lord himself will descend from heaven, with a cry of command, with the archangel’s call, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.
I am very sorry, garden, I didn’t mean I don’t CARE in any sense, but simply that I don’t “worry” in the sense that Fundamentalists do. Of course, I look forward with great hope and longing for the end of time, when, if we perservere in love, we will all share in the full fruits of Christ’s redemption in the unending bliss of the Resurrection and New Creation. No, I’m definitely with ya there!

👍
 
oh, all for Him,

I also agree that Christian unity begins in the here and now in us reaching out in love to one another. Yes, I agree with you. And I do try to do that as best I can. I have many wonderful Protestant friends that I share a deep friendship as brothers and sisters of the Lord. Some are SDAs, some are Christian Reformed, some are like AOG, one is a basic Protestant. and even though we don’t see eye to eye on everything, we still love one another as family.

blessings to you!
scott
 
Priority7:
According to those who hold the Rapture view, there seem to be not one, not two, but THREE last days!
Not true. (Edited for lack of charity and factuallity) And, BTW, I listened to John Martignoni’s lecture in which he basically presents Rome’s Amillennial eschatological view, which I found almost entirely deficient of any of the arguments and issues offered by those who adhere the Rapture doctrine. Basically, he told you what you wanted to hear, but one learned nothing of the opposing view.

In John M.'s lecture he refers to Martha saying to Jesus that she knew her brother would rise again in the resurrection on the “last day.” Claiming that based on this one phrase, “the last day,” the doctrine of the Rapture cannot stand.

But one must take note that even Martha’s statement was said in ignorance, that is, when she said it she lacked the knowledge that (1) within that very hour Jesus was about to raise her brother from the dead; and (2) she was completely clueless as to Christ’s own death and bodily resurrection unto glory (“the first fruits of those who are asleep”) that was soon to occur; and (3) this present, unique Church age that would follow the bodily resurrection of Christ and His ascension back into glory; the building of His Church through the work of the Holy Spirit (Matt. 16:18) which had not yet been disclosed and explained by the Apostle Paul (Eph. 2:15-22; 3:3-10).

Martha’s statement wasn’t false but it lacked other facts in order to be totally accurate for the times even she was living in. She was a Jewess and her statement was based primarily on Dan. 12:1-2 and 13:"Now at that time Michael, the great prince who stands {guard} over the sons of your people, will arise. And there will be a time of distress such as never occurred since there was a nation until that time; and at that time your people, everyone who is found written in the book, will be rescued. "Many of those who sleep in the dust of the ground will awake, these to everlasting life, but the others to disgrace {and} everlasting contempt (vss. 1-2)…“But as for you, go {your way} to the end; then you will enter into rest and rise {again} for your allotted portion at the end of the age” (lit. “end of the days”) (vs. 13).This prophecy, of course, was given to Daniel and pertained specifically to Daniel’s people, Israel. It is one of the few verses in the O.T. that even mentions a resurrection from the dead, and it is restricted to “Daniel’s people” at a unique time period in their history: “such as never occurred since there was a nation until that time.”

Now Jesus also spoke of “that time” of Israel’s distress in Matt. 24:21, and places it yet future to His day. Not at the “end of the world” (cosmos), as John M. claims, but at the end of the “age” (aion, see Matt. 24:3). And this too, all within the context of Daniel’s people, Israel. Reading Matt. 24 one sees it is conspicuously Jewish in flavor (see 24:15-16, 20) and, in context, Jesus is answering the disciple’s (who are Jewish) questions which they had concerning the events surrounding His return to this earth and the “end of the age” for national Israel. They as yet knew nothing about the Church Christ would build after the nation’s rejection of Him and His subsequent ascension back to glory.

So Martha was right that, according to the prophet Daniel, there would be a resurrection of believing Jews at the end of the age (or, of days), i.e., the “last day” prior to the next (age). But we see through the study of the prophetic Scriptures that this next “age” is not the end of the world (cosmos) but the earthly reign of Christ on the throne of His father David in Jerusalem over Israel and the Gentile nations for a thousand years (see Lk. 1:32-33; Rev. 19 and 20:1-6; Zech. 14:4, 9, 16).

Those passages, however, say nothing about, nor pertain to, the Church which was not revealed in the O.T. but in the N. T. Scriptures as a separate, divine program and distinct people from that of national Israel. A people being called out today from both individual Jews and Gentiles, through personal faith in Christ, with a completely different indentity, purpose and time table for the resurrection of those who “died in Christ” and the bodily translation of those who remain alive at that time of His coming for them - “in the air.” A distinct body of believers called the “Bride of Christ” who return WITH HIM at His second Advent to reign with Him, in glory, on this present earth (Jo. 14:3; 1 Thess. 3:13; 4:14-18; cf. 1 Cor. 15:51).

Continued to next post:
 
Now as for Matt. 24:36-41 (“one will be taken, one will be left”), this is referring to the judgment of national Israel at the King’s return - not the Rapture of the Church. Those who are “taken” are taken to await judgment, and those that are “left” remain on earth to enter His earthly Kingdom which He is about to set up (see Matt. 24:13). The same goes for the nations (Gentiles) that are gathered before Him in Matt. 25:31ff. The “sheep” are escorted into His earthly Kingdom, and the “goats” cast away to await judgment.

Those Jews “left” in Matt. 24:40-41 and the Gentile “sheep” in Matt. 25:34 both enter into His earthly kingdom as mortals. These are not resurrected saints. They are Jewish and Gentile believers who come through the seven year Tribulation period (70th Week of Daniel) having believed AFTER the Church (the Bride of Christ) was taken up.

Yes, there will be a resurrection of all O.T. Jewish believers on the “last day,” just prior to Christ setting up His earthly, Millennial Kingdom. But this particular resurrection “unto life” has nothing to do with the Church He is building in the meantime and will receive unto Himself.
 
Basically, he told you what you wanted to hear, but one learned nothing of the opposing view.

Continued to next post:
Who cares to hear about lots of useless information that is in error. I know I don’t have time for it. So why bother explaining the opposing view? It’s in error! I’ll apologise now if that statement has hurt your pride in any way.

This statement also is asking the believer to rationalize with their intellect an answer from sources outside of what is infallable into a belief that can be “backed up” by this verse and a little of that verse to become faith. Why not use the whole of the bible! Where is faith in all of that? The implied question in all of that is “If I can justify this belief with my faith then I will believe it.”

Shall I list the biblical passages that guard against that very thing?
 
I am very sorry, garden, I didn’t mean I don’t CARE in any sense, but simply that I don’t “worry” in the sense that Fundamentalists do. Of course, I look forward with great hope and longing for the end of time, when, if we perservere in love, we will all share in the full fruits of Christ’s redemption in the unending bliss of the Resurrection and New Creation. No, I’m definitely with ya there!

👍
I thought you were. 👍 I quoted you because you pointed out that the apocalytic scriptures isn’t irrelavent–i.e. it *is *relevant to Catholics. While Catholics may not spend a lot of time pondering the end times, the Church does has teachings about it. I understand what some mean that they’re more concerned with the end of their own life rather than the end of time. But the Church teaches that those who remain in Christ will be resurrected in the end. Even if we die before the end of the world, we should hope to be around when Christ returns and resurrects the dead.

Now as to Christian unity, I find your posts intriguing about the possibility of reunification before Christ’ return. Christian unity interested me since childhood, (having relatives & friends who were Protestant, and eventually marrying a Protestant, whose now Catholic. I have Protestant in-laws, including some who buy this rapture stuff.) Somewhere I got the idea that Christians should be re-united before Christ’ return, but I don’t know where I got that idea so I pretty much dismissed it. I don’t remember reading or hearing anything about it beyond my own thoughts until I read your post. Please post your sources on that! Thanks:)
 
40.png
gardenswithkids:
Please show your sources
thank you for your kind response, gardens,

Well, this is the primary source that I get the data from: EWTN, who, as you know, is quite orthodox. Well, anyway, the following article on EWTN’s FAQ section of the Faith Q and A, is the basis for what I’m talking about:

End Times / Millennium/ Rapture

discusses toward the end as follows:
As Cardinal Ratzinger recently pointed out (in the context of the message of Fátima), we are not at the end of the world. In fact, the Second Coming (understood as the physical return of Christ) cannot occur until the full number of the Gentiles are converted, followed by “all Israel.”

Approved Catholic mystics (Venerables, Blessed and Saints, approved apparitions) throw considerable light on this order, by prophesying a minor apostasy and tribulation toward the end of the world, after which will occur the reunion of Christians. Only later will the entire world fall away from Christ (the great apostasy) and the personal Antichrist arise and the Tribulation of the End occur.

Although this is not Catholic doctrine, arising as it does from private revelation, it conforms to what is occurring in our time, especially in light of Our Lady of Fátima’s promise of an “Era of Peace.” This “Triumph of the Immaculate Heart” (other saints have spoken of a social reign of Jesus Christ when Jesus will reign in the hearts of men) would seem to occur prior to the rise of the Antichrist. The optimism of the Pope for the “New Evangelization” and a “Civilization of Love” in the Third Millennium of Christianity fits here, as well. This would place us, therefore, in the period just before the events spoken of in the Catechism, that is, on the verge of the evangelization of the entire world. Other interpretations are possible, but none seem to fit the facts as well, especially when approved mystics are studied, instead of merely alleged ones.
this author of this article is one of the EWTN experts who answer questions on the Q and A site of EWTN. His name is Colin Donovan.

Also involved is the man named Desmond Birch, who, from what i can recall, has done some 23 YEARS of painstaking research of the Catholic data, both from Tradition, as well as FULLY APPROVED Private Revelations. He has even travelled extensively from what I can recall, digging up archives in Vatican stuff, etc. and his research is compiled in a great work:

Trial, Tribulation, and Triumph.

I have the book but have not read all of it, but it is clear from its structure that the EWTN article above seems to be an accurate forecast of the remaining spiritual history for the Church.

What I have done in my personal meditation is to look to see if there is Biblical and Traditional basis for this data that is mostly derived from Private Rev, and as a result of much meditation and study, I have come to believe that this mystics’ scenario is the most supported scenario on many accounts, including OT Typology, the way of the saint, and other apocalyptic data.

Toward that end, I take this specific issue of the minor apostasy and tribulation that is followed by the reunion of Christians, and apply it to the Scriptures. In one case, I do this with the the Two Witnesses of Revelation 11, which you can read here:

The Two Witnesses and the Witness of the Church (Scripture and Tradition).

As an addenduum, but much longer, I explore the theological implications between this mystics’ scenairo and the more pessimistic view that the reunion of Christians will not restore the faith in the following article:

On the Disunity and Unity of Christians and Christ’s Plan for the Redemption (Free Will and Predestination)

Let me know if you would like some other stuff.

blessings to you, gardenswithkids!
scott
 
When confronted with those preaching the rapture theology, I ask them a series of simple questions.
  1. God is the same as he as always been, correct?
    (Here they would of course need to answer yes)
  2. After the flood, who was left behind?
    (Noah and his family)
  3. After Sodom and Gomorrah, who was left behind.
    (Lot and his family, except his wife)
  4. So if God is the same as he has always been, and after major events in the bible, the righteous were the ones left behind, if there some event brought on by God where people are taken away, who will be left behind?
I then leave them to think about it.
Hello Gelsbern,
I wasn’t going to respond to this thread, but I had to respond to your particular thread. It is true that God has not changed (Heb.13:8 & Mal.3:6); His character remains unchanged forever, however, God has changed His laws and methods throughout the bible when dealing with sinful man. I am saved by grace through faith, not by keeping old testament law (as the children of Israel had to do).
Before the flood, everything was corrupt (Gen.6:5-7), but Noah found grace in God’s eye (Gen.6:8). God instructed Noah to build the ark & put him and his family inside (along with a bunch of animals) and shut them in (Gen.7:16).
After the flood, those outside of the ark were left behind–and they died a horrible death. But God saved Noah & his family from the destruction of the flood.
After Sodom & Gomorrah, who was left behind? Actually quite a few people. Not only Lot & his 2 daughters, but all the people living in the city of Zoar (Gen.19:22). Also, as you continue reading through the book of Genesis, you will see that Abraham, Sarah, Hagar (the Egyptian handmaid) and all of Abrahams family survived, but also Abimelech, the children of Heth, the Canaanites, Hittites, the Egyptians, etc. all survived.
As you can see by reading the bible that there are many examples of both righteous and un-righteous people left behind.
Israel as a nation, was God’s chosen people and suffered terribly throughout the old testament and as we know even up to our own time today. In the new testament the Lord Jesus Christ came as a Lamb (John 1:29), but was crucified, died, and buried, but He rose again on the 3rd day (1Cor. 15:1-4). After He rose from the dead he spent time with His disciples for 40 days (Acts 1:3) and then was taken up into Heaven, but before He ascended into Heaven He promised to return (John 14:2-3; Acts 1:11).
Those early Christians, left behind, almost immediately started suffering persecution. Stephen was stoned (Acts 7:51-60) and then Herod killed James the brother of John (Acts 12:1-2) to name some early examples. Church history (Catholic, Baptist or Protestant versions) all show many examples of suffering and persecution for Christians. Even today, in many parts of the world, Christians are still being persecuted and murdered.
I believe My Lord Jesus Christ will return as He said and in Revelation 19:11-16 I believe it describes His magnificant return as KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS.
So who will be left behind? Those who are not saved in the Body of Christ will suffer His wrath (John 3:36), “He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.” By trusting in Jesus Christ as your Saviour, one becomes apart of His Body. I believe the Apostle Paul wrote to the church in Thessalonia “And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.” (1Thess. 1:10).
As far as the “rapture” is concerned, the word is not found in the bible (but neither is the word “trinity” found there either, none the less the doctrine of the trinity is), but for those who take the bible in a more literal perspective, I believe there can be support for it.
I once read a quote from someone (Author Unknown) about the Golden Rule of Bible Interpretation, “When the plain sense of Scripture makes common sense, seek no other sense. Therefore, take every word at its primary, ordinary, usual, literal meaning, unless the facts of the immediate context, studied in the light of related passages, and axiomatic and fundamental truths, indicate clearly otherwise. God, in revealing His Word, neither intends nor permits the reader to be confused. He wants His children to understand.” I have said enough and it is late.
God Bless you Gelsbern,
Benaiah
 
Benaiah,

The only problem with your logic is that they are talking specifically about the flood and Sodom and Gomorrah. As you mentioned in the flood, the righteous were left behind, and this analogy is used for those separated on the day of judgement (one left in the field, one taken away).

In Sodom and Gomorrah they are specifically talking about a local disaster, not everywhere else in the world. Only the righteous were saved in S&G, the wicked were taken away. Again this is the analogy used in the NT.
 
Notworthy,
In Sodom and Gomorrah they are specifically talking about a local disaster, not everywhere else in the world. Only the righteous were saved in S&G, the wicked were taken away. Again this is the analogy used in the NT.
If the symbolism of the flood, or Sodom and Gomorrah were exact replica’s of end time events… they would be “end time events”. But since they were used by God as illustrations to end time events they did not need to be exact replicas.

In the case of the flood, eight people were raised from the earth, and those who were left behind were destroyed… when the flood waters (tribulation) receded, those righteous returned to earth (pretribulation rapture, and subsequent millennial reign).

In the case of Sodom and Gomorrah, Lot, his wife and two daughters were extracted from the cities, then the inhabitants of those cities were destroyed. Lot then dwelt in a mountain because he was afraid to dwell in Zoar (Gen. 19:30) (Zoar being in close proximity to the cities that were destroyed). (The mountain, and Lot with his family ascending there illustrates the rapture, the destruction of those cities represents judgement.

To say that the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah was not an illustration of the end times is to directly oppose Jesus’ teaching…
Luk 17:26 And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.
Luk 17:27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.
Luk 17:28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
Luk 17:29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed [them] all.
Luk 17:30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.
John
www.gideonsword.net
 
Notworthy,

If the symbolism of the flood, or Sodom and Gomorrah were exact replica’s of end time events… they would be “end time events”. But since they were used by God as illustrations to end time events they did not need to be exact replicas.

In the case of the flood, eight people were raised from the earth, and those who were left behind were destroyed… when the flood waters (tribulation) receded, those righteous returned to earth (pretribulation rapture, and subsequent millennial reign).

In the case of Sodom and Gomorrah, Lot, his wife and two daughters were extracted from the cities, then the inhabitants of those cities were destroyed. Lot then dwelt in a mountain because he was afraid to dwell in Zoar (Gen. 19:30) (Zoar being in close proximity to the cities that were destroyed). (The mountain, and Lot with his family ascending there illustrates the rapture, the destruction of those cities represents judgement.

To say that the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah was not an illustration of the end times is to directly oppose Jesus’ teaching…

John
www.gideonsword.net
I was not implying that S&G was not an end time illustration. I was pointing out to someone else who said the wicked of the rest of the world were left behind. I was trying to limit the end of times analogy to just S&G, to counter their point. Sorry about the confusion.

I disagree with your analogy. Those that died were taken away. Those that were righteous were left behind in both analogies. After the flood, who was left - Noah and his family. After the destruction at S&G who was left behind - Lot, his two daughters, and the world’s biggest salt-lick!
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top