The Rapture

[Northwind]

JCPeacekeeper

1. I’m afraid the scriptures very clearly point to it. I believe we are in the end times.

John says that he was in the end times! So, we’ve been in the end times for 2000 years now. I used to be really big into prophecy, not anymore. Too many people claiming to know when the day is and such. Thats the first sign of a false prophet is when they claim to know when the Lord will appear…

1 John 2:18-19
18 Children, it is the last hour; and just as you heard that antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have arisen; from this we know that it is the last hour.

 

[Mannyfit75]

Here’s the new thread, references in the John Hagee thread.

Questions:

1. Do you think the CC is the Whore of Babylon?
2. Do you follow pre-, post-, mid- tribulation?

Here’s a comparison between Catholic and Dispensationalist:
carl-olson.com/graphics/Cath_Disp_Comp_03.pdft End Times view:

1. No.
2. I don’t like to use any of those terms and its not officially taught by the Church. I understand the Book of Revelation as the way the Church teaches it.

 

[Allweather]

Mrs. JCPeacekeeper wrote: ““The Mary of the bible was humble and always pointed people to Jesus, not to go to her to get to Him.””

Yes, this has been my experience! As a fundamentalist Protestant I never met the real Jesus. Mary leads me directly to the REAL Jesus, the One with a human mother and a divine father. Protestant fundamentalism demeans the human nature of our Lord by pushing Mary away. What a shame!

 

[Mickey]

The fact is she is the mother of the son of Man, Jesus in the FLESH. Not the mother of God.

Is seems as if you are nestorian. Did you know that nestorianism is a heresy?

 

[Eschato]

Here’s the new thread, references in the John Hagee thread.

Questions:

1. Do you think the CC is the Whore of Babylon?
2. Do you follow pre-, post-, mid- tribulation?

Here’s a comparison between Catholic and Dispensationalist:
carl-olson.com/graphics/Cath_Disp_Comp_03.pdft End Times view:

Unfortunately, most of that already happened. Read some history. Maybe some Josephus would do you some good. He mentions most of those things, as he witnessed them. He was the General in charge of the Jewish revolt.

1. the whore of Babylon was the OT Jerusalem after Christ’s crucifixion.
2. The rapture is a farce.

 

[Eschato]

Sorry, I quoted the wrong person… Carl Olson did right a good book, I also recommend David B. Currie’s Rapture.

 

[Dancelittleewok]

I think I’m done with Rapture questions, even if I show you biblical truth, you are blind to it.

BAD - Just remember this, don’t accept something called the Mark of the Beast.

GOOD - Get in the line where they are chopping peoples heads off, you won’t want to do it, but trust me you will be happy you did.

Hello, I’m back again, but I’m sad to see your uncharitable posts to your fellow believers here. Can you answer these questions for me?

You said in post #1:

“There will be 2 witnesses that will preach the word of God during all of this. They will preach for 3.5 years, and then be killed by the anti-christ. They will lie dead for 3.5 days, then God will give them life. Next they will be Raptued up to heaven in front of the whole world, at that time everyone will know exactly what happened to all of the other people that dissapeared.”

And in post #5:

"The “restrainer” /the Church of Chist must be removed before the 7 years of tribulation can start and the Anti-christ can come on seen. Therefore, there can only be a PreTribulation “catching away.”

My questions:

1. Are there 2 raptures and Christ is coming back 3 times?
2. It would seem by your answer in post #5 that believers can sustain and survive the Tribulations.
3. If this is possible, then isn’t the Rapture unneccessary? Furthermore, how can these 2 witness preach the Word of God if the Church of Christ is absent?

(P.S. I did not mean for this thread to become a discussion about Mary. I encourage you to start a thread about a title of Mary. Also, my questions at the beginning was directed toward JCPeacekeeper and is contrary to my beliefs: I do not think the Church is the Whore of Babylon.)

 

[Dancelittleewok]

I think I’m done with Rapture questions, even if I show you biblical truth, you are blind to it.

BAD - Just remember this, don’t accept something called the Mark of the Beast.

GOOD - Get in the line where they are chopping peoples heads off, you won’t want to do it, but trust me you will be happy you did.

Hello, I’m back again, but I’m sad to see your uncharitable posts to your fellow believers here. Can you answer these questions for me?

You said in post #1:

“There will be 2 witnesses that will preach the word of God during all of this. They will preach for 3.5 years, and then be killed by the anti-christ. They will lie dead for 3.5 days, then God will give them life. Next they will be Raptued up to heaven in front of the whole world, at that time everyone will know exactly what happened to all of the other people that dissapeared.”

And in post #5:

"The “restrainer” /the Church of Chist must be removed before the 7 years of tribulation can start and the Anti-christ can come on seen. Therefore, there can only be a PreTribulation “catching away.”

My questions:

1. Are there 2 raptures and Christ is coming back 3 times?
2. It would seem by your answer in post #5 that believers can sustain and survive the Tribulations.
3. If this is possible, then isn’t the Rapture unneccessary? Furthermore, how can these 2 witness preach the Word of God if the Church of Christ is absent?

(P.S. I did not mean for this thread to become a discussion about Mary. I encourage you to start a thread about a title of Mary. Also, my questions at the beginning was directed toward JCPeacekeeper and is contrary to my beliefs: I do not think the Church is the Whore of Babylon.)

 

[Dancelittleewok]

I think I’m done with Rapture questions, even if I show you biblical truth, you are blind to it.

BAD - Just remember this, don’t accept something called the Mark of the Beast.

GOOD - Get in the line where they are chopping peoples heads off, you won’t want to do it, but trust me you will be happy you did.

Hello, I’m back again, but I’m sad to see your uncharitable posts to your fellow believers here. Can you answer these questions for me?

You said in post #1:

“There will be 2 witnesses that will preach the word of God during all of this. They will preach for 3.5 years, and then be killed by the anti-christ. They will lie dead for 3.5 days, then God will give them life. Next they will be Raptued up to heaven in front of the whole world, at that time everyone will know exactly what happened to all of the other people that dissapeared.”

And in post #5:

"The “restrainer” /the Church of Chist must be removed before the 7 years of tribulation can start and the Anti-christ can come on seen. Therefore, there can only be a PreTribulation “catching away.”

My questions:

1. Are there 2 raptures and Christ is coming back 3 times?
2. It would seem by your answer in post #5 that believers can sustain and survive the Tribulations.
3. If this is possible, then isn’t the Rapture unneccessary? Furthermore, how can these 2 witness preach the Word of God if the Church of Christ is absent?

(P.S. I did not mean for this thread to become a discussion about Mary. I encourage you to start a thread about a title of Mary. Also, my questions at the beginning was directed toward JCPeacekeeper and is contrary to my beliefs: I do not think the Church is the Whore of Babylon.)

 

[Dancelittleewok]

Sorry about the repeated posts everyone…the server was acting up…

 

[dessert]

Sorry about the repeated posts everyone…the server was acting up…

My my goodness see I repeat things too! What a nice apology to be coming from such a controversible thread.
I am a cradle catholic revert, meaning I spent years away surching but found out there is no place like home, no pun intended, just very glad to be back.
I was into the rapture group belief for awhile but since have found but understanding is better if I stay focussed on Jesus.
Instead of focussing on when am I going to get out of this blinkity blank world, what does Jesus want me to do?
Instead of when is He coming, this I try to stay focussed on the second coming instead of the word rapture, where does God lead me today and just pray and pray some more.
In the end when we get there we all have to confess and bend our knee.
The talk of the rapture only made me so afraid I didn’t want to do anything for God.

return from the desert

 

[dessert]

Sorry about the repeated posts everyone…the server was acting up…

My my goodness see I repeat things too! What a nice apology to be coming from such a controversible thread.
I am a cradle catholic revert, meaning I spent years away surching but found out there is no place like home, no pun intended, just very glad to be back.
I was into the rapture group belief for awhile but since have found but understanding is better if I stay focussed on Jesus.
Instead of focussing on when am I going to get out of this blinkity blank world, what does Jesus want me to do?
Instead of when is He coming, this I try to stay focussed on the second coming instead of the word rapture, where does God lead me today and just pray and pray some more.
In the end when we get there we all have to confess and bend our knee.
The talk of the rapture only made me so afraid I didn’t want to do anything for God.

return from the desert

 

[FromTheCrossroa]

My my goodness see I repeat things too! What a nice apology to be coming from such a controversible thread.
I am a cradle catholic revert, meaning I spent years away surching but found out there is no place like home, no pun intended, just very glad to be back.
I was into the rapture group belief for awhile but since have found but understanding is better if I stay focussed on Jesus.
Instead of focussing on when am I going to get out of this blinkity blank world, what does Jesus want me to do?
Instead of when is He coming, this I try to stay focussed on the second coming instead of the word rapture, where does God lead me today and just pray and pray some more.
In the end when we get there we all have to confess and bend our knee.
The talk of the rapture only made me so afraid I didn’t want to do anything for God.

return from the desert

Ding ding ding, we have a winner. Keeping an eye on the times is one thing. Locking yourself in a house to wait for the savior’s return is another. How do you know when someone has misunderstood the end times? When they’ve spoken the words “I know the real truth!”.

 

[FromTheCrossroa]

My my goodness see I repeat things too! What a nice apology to be coming from such a controversible thread.
I am a cradle catholic revert, meaning I spent years away surching but found out there is no place like home, no pun intended, just very glad to be back.
I was into the rapture group belief for awhile but since have found but understanding is better if I stay focussed on Jesus.
Instead of focussing on when am I going to get out of this blinkity blank world, what does Jesus want me to do?
Instead of when is He coming, this I try to stay focussed on the second coming instead of the word rapture, where does God lead me today and just pray and pray some more.
In the end when we get there we all have to confess and bend our knee.
The talk of the rapture only made me so afraid I didn’t want to do anything for God.

return from the desert

Ding ding ding, we have a winner. Keeping an eye on the times is one thing. Locking yourself in a house to wait for the savior’s return is another. How do you know when someone has misunderstood the end times? When they’ve spoken the words “I know the real truth!”.

 

[Mickey]

As for interpreting the Bible “literally,” ask a rapturite to interpret John 6:50-58 or 1 Peter 3:21 literally. They will insist those passages, respectively addressing the Eucharist and baptism, are written metaphorically. But the book of Revelation — filled with images of a dragon, a multi-horned beast, locusts, bowls, trumpets, and Jesus with a sword coming out of his mouth — is meant to be interpreted literally?
catholicculture.org/docs/doc_view.cfm?recnum=4621

 

[Prayer_Warrior]

Webster’s Dictionary: prayer- a devout petition to God or an object of worship…remember Exodus 20:4

I find it interesting that you didn’t include the alternative definitions of the the word prayer. Only the definition that you thought fit the situation. Was this deliberate? You are wrong here as are all your assertions about the Catholic Church. The definition of prayer in this context is further down the list “a petition; entreaty”. Prayer to Mary or another saint is a petition to them to ask them to intercede to God on our behalf.

The apparitions are more of my husbands field! I am going to give a few CCC that speak about Mary. You can then draw your own conclusion on what role Mary play in the catholic Church. Just so we are clear on one thing before I continue, I think Mary is very blessed. She carried and raised our savior. I believe she is everything the scripture says she is.
The fact is she is the mother of the son of Man, Jesus in the FLESH. Not the mother of God.Joseph also didn’t know her UNTIL she gave birth to her first born son (matt. 1:25). Sorry to say but they did have other children. They were not cousins. “Brother” in Greek is adelphos which describes a “blood brother.” Plus she didn’t remain sinless. She herself said she was in need of a savior (Luke 1:47). Also in Romans 3:23 Paul said “all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.” He did not continue with, except for Mary the mother of God, and he knew her personally.

This thread is not about Mary, but since you committed heresy above I am duty bound to correct you. You state that Mary is not the Mother of God… that is Nestorianism which fractures Jesus Christ into two separate persons. He is one person. Mary is His mother. God willed that He place Himself in her womb (thus it is fitting that she was pure). Catholics do not believe that Mary created God or preexisted God, but that Jesus is one person who was Human and Divine and He was born to Mary. Therefore, Mary is the God-bearer (akd Mother of God).

Though it pains me, I will not correct the numerous errors in the rest of your post because we are supposed to be talking about the Rapture-- but I will post this link which shows your interpretations of scripture are incorrect. If you do not understand the subtle differences between the word “heos” and the modern day “until” and the multiple uses for the word adelphos, what other things may you have misinterpreted? (see the title of this thread)

 

[JonathanKinsman]

“The Rapture” refers to a passage in First Thessalonians, chapter 4, which talks about Christians being “caught up” in the clouds to meet the the Lord in the air.

You seem to believe, as many personal-interpretation Christians do, that this being “caught up” will happen during the Great Tribulation.

However, notice what St Paul says in verse 17: “…we who are alive, who are left,” shall be caught up.

The “Left Behind” books get their name from St Luke 17 and a passage in St Matthew 24 which talk about the second coming of Jesus being like the days of Noah and Lot.

Specifically: “For as it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. In [those] days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark…So will it be [also]at the coming of the Son of Man. Two men will be out in the field; one will be taken, and one will be left. Two women will be grinding at the mill; one will be taken, and one will be left.”

The problem with your private interpretation is that it misses the point of the reference to the time of the flood and of the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah.

After the flood, who was left?

After Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed, who was left?

It was Noah and his family. It was Lot and his daughters.
These are the good guys, the ones who are “left behind.”

Remember 1Thes? It says that those who are ‘left’ get to meet Jesus in the air.

In other words, you want to be left behind!

Your view is not biblical nor is it scriptural. But it certainly is anti-Catholic and anti-Christian.

 

[catsrus]

originally posted by JCPeacekeeper
Why should I ask you what you believe? I am stating what the Catholic Church believes (CCC) compared to the Word of God. I don’t have to answer to God for what you believe, you do. If you ask a priest a question about the church’s beliefs, he will refer you to the catechism. So that is what I have done.

Have you ever heard of reading the fine print? You have to ask yourself what you believe. The Bible or the Catechism, because they are not one in the same. I am not confused about the differences in the two books. It does seem that you may not have full knowledge of the Doctrines in the Catholic Church, yet when you joined the CC you got every belief that came along with it. I guess you could choose to be luke warm, and take the bits and pieces that suite you. It’s either all or nothing. The bible is either all true or not true at all.

This post is confrontational, arrogant and completely ignorant of The One Holy Catholic Church and what She teaches and believes.
Yes, you are QUITE confused.
I DO have full knowledge of the doctrines of The One Holy Catholic Church.
I am NOT lukewarm.
You do not know me so I HIGHLY suggest you back off with the personal attacks.
You come onto a Catholic forum to preach heresy to us.
Go away.
We’ve heard it all before.

 

[MarySon]

Rapture - shmapture.
Here is my uneducated take on this. Yes we are all living at the end of times - what guarantee do you have that you would wake up tomorow morning - or maybe God would call you to Himself. This is the real rapture.

 

[FromTheCrossroa]

This post is confrontational, arrogant and completely ignorant of The One Holy Catholic Church and what She teaches and believes.
Yes, you are QUITE confused.
I DO have full knowledge of the doctrines of The One Holy Catholic Church.
I am NOT lukewarm.
You do not know me so I HIGHLY suggest you back off with the personal attacks.
You come onto a Catholic forum to preach heresy to us.
Go away.
We’ve heard it all before.

I’m telling you…Christ warned us about people like this!

Matthew 7:15-23

15"Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. 16By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17Likewise every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. 19Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.

21"Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ 23Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

What are the fruits of the church this church? Are the naked clothed? Are the hungry fed? Are the hopeless given mercy? Do their members life a pious and humble life according to Christs example?

Even in San Antonio, John Hagee’s church is WELL-KNOWN, not for being a pillar of the community, or a light on the hill. It’s known for being a church full of hypocrites, and misguided, judgmental souls. I could make a joke about lighting a candle and petitioning St. Jude for them, but its really too grave of a matter. I’ve been where they are and its truly not a good place to be. I do sincerely hope/pray JC and his wife do find truth, because they sound desperate to find it.