The Rapture

[FromTheCrossroa]

This post is confrontational, arrogant and completely ignorant of The One Holy Catholic Church and what She teaches and believes.
Yes, you are QUITE confused.
I DO have full knowledge of the doctrines of The One Holy Catholic Church.
I am NOT lukewarm.
You do not know me so I HIGHLY suggest you back off with the personal attacks.
You come onto a Catholic forum to preach heresy to us.
Go away.
We’ve heard it all before.

I’m telling you…Christ warned us about people like this!

Matthew 7:15-23

15"Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. 16By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17Likewise every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. 19Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.

21"Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ 23Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

What are the fruits of the church this church? Are the naked clothed? Are the hungry fed? Are the hopeless given mercy? Do their members life a pious and humble life according to Christs example?

Even in San Antonio, John Hagee’s church is WELL-KNOWN, not for being a pillar of the community, or a light on the hill. It’s known for being a church full of hypocrites, and misguided, judgmental souls. I could make a joke about lighting a candle and petitioning St. Jude for them, but its really too grave of a matter. I’ve been where they are and its truly not a good place to be. I do sincerely hope/pray JC and his wife do find truth, because they sound desperate to find it.

 

[Allweather]

I was into the rapture group belief for awhile but since have found but understanding is better if I stay focussed on Jesus.

Me, too. Back in 1983 I belonged to a group that was convinced, and had me convinced, too, that the rapture was going to happen very soon. I remember buying a car in that year and telling my friends that that was my “rapture car” ie the last car I would ever need to buy. Well, that car is long worn out, LOL.

 

[dessert]

Ding ding ding, we have a winner. Keeping an eye on the times is one thing. Locking yourself in a house to wait for the savior’s return is another. How do you know when someone has misunderstood the end times? When they’ve spoken the words “I know the real truth!”.

I’m not sure if you mean that I’m locking myself into my house,but I’m not. I’m just trying to concentrate on being an example of a christian catholic. I go to work and actually have been testifying to my faith there quite a bit lately. I just foound out the other night that a lady is a witch yes a real honest to goodness witch. She sais she has been in training for 2 years and has been a practicing witch for 1 year. Yeah i have thoought about quitting this job big time but don’t haave the cash and my husband dosen’t want me to. We also have a few lesb couples and a lady whho is actually a minister and we used to have a gay manager. He got fired. I ccan’t say where but it is a big name store and their favorite color is blue.
Anyways to me the end times seem close but yeah I said it has been talked about for a long time so I stopped worring about it becausse yoou know what God is in my life now and the angel Michael and the others are here and we can call on God to be faithfull and read the promises of God it will help you get through. REad the bible and let the Hholy Spirit reveal to you the real truth. You don’t need another person to tell you not me or any others it has been a good discussion. The people at work just roll their eyes they are really blinded to anything I am trying to tell them and they aren’t even on first base or like they say the same page. Well they are not on the same page or the same chapter or the same book of God right? We had a guy walk ou the store the other night and he had stuff stolen in a bookbag so he dropped it when a guy said stop freeze and then he walked away and to find out there weere severral things in there mostly food and a big knife for real! The knife is a scary thing but what is also scary is that people are stealing food, but more than likely to sell for drugs. I am not in an inner city or NYNY either. Keep talking on the forum and we’ll pray for you
return from the desert

 

[lak611]

Here’s the new thread, references in the John Hagee thread.

Questions:

1. Do you think the CC is the Whore of Babylon?
2. Do you follow pre-, post-, mid- tribulation?

Here’s a comparison between Catholic and Dispensationalist:
carl-olson.com/graphics/Cath_Disp_Comp_03.pdft End Times view:

That link you gave comparing Catholic and Dispensationalist End Times views doesn’t work on my computer. I got an error message.

 

[dessert]

Ding ding ding, we have a winner. Keeping an eye on the times is one thing. Locking yourself in a house to wait for the savior’s return is another. How do you know when someone has misunderstood the end times? When they’ve spoken the words “I know the real truth!”.

If someone says they know the real truth, they have probably just read it somewhere. I can’t eimagine not having to suffer somewhat. Look at what Jesus went through and the saints being fed to lions and such now there is tribulation. It seems to me sometimes that we are in tribulation now but that may be because I am not so yougn anymore. I remember the good old days. i don’t really want to think about all those bible verses telling us how bad it will be so maybe I am burrying my head alitlle. return

 

[dessert]

That link you gave comparing Catholic and Dispensationalist End Times views doesn’t work on my computer. I got an error message.

i think God is trying to end this thread so maybe we shoould all rapture out of it. My computer won’t let me get on the net for shoopping grrrrr.
no joke really intended return

 

[mastda]

Posters like JC Peacekeeper are one of the reasons why I still come to this forum. They are usually ex Catholics who are now “armed with the truth” and you have to love their sincerity in wanting to convert all of us Catholics and save us from hell. They usually don’t stay on this forum very long because of the many greatly cathecised Catholics intelligently respond to thier concerns and it starts to confuse them. They start calling us “blind” and “lost” instead of further discussing issues. What interests me is not so much what they are saying but how they are saying it. If you notice a poster like JCPeacekeeper, there is much hatred in his attacks…there is no love. Its “look at this verse you idiot” approach and when you peel the onion you soon discover that the hatred is based on something that happened to that person personally. Do you remember Malachi a serva(?) about a year ago? It took over 400 posts to discover that he did not like the way he was treated by a priest once and that was his reason for leaving the Church. How do I know this, its because I was born and raised Catholic, left the church in my early 20’s and for 10 + years people like Peacekeeper were my mentors and friends and I grew to hate the Church too.

So Peacekeeper I really hope you do not become a statistic and leave soon because I really enjoy reading your posts and would like to see the day when you no longer have the hatred towards Catholics you now have. You probably wont revert (I hope you do) but I know that you will soften your stance because Catholics read and know the Bible just as good as protestants do.

 

[Prayer_Warrior]

“The Rapture” refers to a passage in First Thessalonians, chapter 4, which talks about Christians being “caught up” in the clouds to meet the the Lord in the air.

You seem to believe, as many personal-interpretation Christians do, that this being “caught up” will happen during the Great Tribulation.

However, notice what St Paul says in verse 17: “…we who are alive, who are left,” shall be caught up.

The “Left Behind” books get their name from St Luke 17 and a passage in St Matthew 24 which talk about the second coming of Jesus being like the days of Noah and Lot.

Specifically: “For as it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. In [those] days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark…So will it be [also]at the coming of the Son of Man. Two men will be out in the field; one will be taken, and one will be left. Two women will be grinding at the mill; one will be taken, and one will be left.”

The problem with your private interpretation is that it misses the point of the reference to the time of the flood and of the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah.

After the flood, who was left?

After Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed, who was left?

It was Noah and his family. It was Lot and his daughters.
These are the good guys, the ones who are “left behind.”

Remember 1Thes? It says that those who are ‘left’ get to meet Jesus in the air.

In other words, you want to be left behind!

Your view is not biblical nor is it scriptural. But it certainly is anti-Catholic and anti-Christian.

Expanding on the 1 Thess issue. It says " 16 For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the archangel’s call, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first;
17: then we who are alive, who are left, shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air; and so we shall always be with the Lord. " Rapture believers are so caught up in verse 17 that they fail to know that verse sixteen talks about the timing of the Lord descending. It says he will decend with the sound of the trumpet of God. What trumpet? Well, it is talked about in Mt 24: 29-31.

"29: "**Immediately after the tribulation of those days **the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken;

30: then will appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory;

31: and he will send out his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. "

I’ve bolded some important parts of the passages that seem to be ignored by the folks who believe in the pre-trib rapture…

 

[Pacbox]

Not to be rude or truly off topic, but every time I see “rapture” I, for some reason, keep getting the impression I should brush up on my 18th and 19th century English poetry. Lord Byron in particular. That and there was a thread in the Apologetics forum not that long ago where someone posted a parody of the “Safety Dance” with " The Rapture Dance."

 

[FromTheCrossroa]

I’m not sure if you mean that I’m locking myself into my house,but I’m not…cut for sanity

Desert,

I think you confused me with someone else.

 

[Fidelis]

That link you gave comparing Catholic and Dispensationalist End Times views doesn’t work on my computer. I got an error message.

Try this one:

carl-olson.com/graphics/Cath_Disp_Comp_03.pdf

 

[dessert]

Try this one:

carl-olson.com/graphics/Cath_Disp_Comp_03.pdf

I think I will skip it my computer got really slam dunked on the other so not I as now I am having trouble with my e-mails.
desert

 

[Giovanni]

Why should I ask you what you believe? I am stating what the Catholic Church believes (CCC) compared to the Word of God. I don’t have to answer to God for what you believe, you do. If you ask a priest a question about the church’s beliefs, he will refer you to the catechism. So that is what I have done.

Have you ever heard of reading the fine print? You have to ask yourself what you believe. The Bible or the Catechism, because they are not one in the same. I am not confused about the differences in the two books. It does seem that you may not have full knowledge of the Doctrines in the Catholic Church, yet when you joined the CC you got every belief that came along with it. I guess you could choose to be luke warm, and take the bits and pieces that suite you. It’s either all or nothing. The bible is either all true or not true at all.

One- if it was’t for the “CC”, you would not have the Word of God to guide you to salvation.

Two- I will make this prophetic statement about you, “be ready for the coming of the Lord, for your soul will be taken up within next 50 years”.

I believe that goes for most who are over 40.

Maybe if I rank as high as Elija, Jesus and Mary, I may be taken up body and soul.

 

[jlr247]

Questions:

1. Do you think the CC is the Whore of Babylon?
2. Do you follow pre-, post-, mid- tribulation?

1. If I thought the Catholic Church was the Whore of Babylon, I wouldn’t be a Catholic.
2. I don’t assume to know how God will conduct the end of days; there is no way I could possibly know that. However, I don’t really think God would do a ‘rapture’, it doesn’t make logical sense to me. In my opinion, a believer would do the most good on the grief-stricken earth winning over souls for God in the end of days.

 

[Mannyfit75]

Protestants (expect those Protestants who don’t believe that the CC is the whore) especially those from Evangelicals Christians need to stop thinking that the Whore of Babylon is the Catholic Church because they will be judged by God himself for calling his Bride, a Whore. Woe them…

 

[Confussed]

I’m Confussed and I live in Prince Albert, Saskatchewan, Canada
I feel very lucky to live in this country even though I see how the world in general is headed.
I read a lot about the end times and am very confussed.
I was born a Catholic and had the influence of a Grandmother that was very strong in her faith. Her way of trying to get her grandkids to follow was not the best but in the end I do believe it did have a strong influence on me even though I ignored my religion for quite a time. I use to believe you could pick and choose what you wanted to follow ie contraception. Now I do not trust myself so I try to follow all the Pope teaches.
Do others believe the end of the era is upon us? Timing is really a problem for me as I have a 7 year old daughter. Of course I want to know when things will happen. Let me know what your thoughts are.

 

[kickinbeat]

Anytime I see something about ‘The Rapture’ I get mad.

You can’t just pick and choose bible verses and then put them together anyway you want. There is more to the bible than the book of Daniel and the book of Revelation.

 

[dessert]

Hope you have come home confussed.
Hi this is a normal question, I thought about it myself some when returning. I wouldn’t worry too much just live day by day for the Lord. It is a good age to take your daughter to start learning about mass and go to church. My mother was strick too but I am glad she gave me all those lessons and now I am practicing my faith and liivng it instead of just taling about it. I did a catch up and if you keep reading the posts you will learn alot. Keep asking ?'s
Dessert

 

[Lev23]

The timing of the rapture in dispentionalism has to do the start of the tribulation. Believers in a pre-tribulation catching away are accussed that they just want to “avoid suffering and persecution”. The fact is the dead in Christ rise first before those who are alive in Christ. Its all about the bridegroom coming for his bride to “steal her away” like a thief in the night.

So when is Israel inserted back into prophecy, Jesus’ church, his bride, who is filled with the Holy Spirit, with their lamps trimmed and ready with oil, is taking to heaven where Jesus prepared a place for them. This happens at a time only his Father knows. With the church gone, Gods focus is centered on Israel. In all the labor pains it will have to go through, all Israel will be reconciled with the God of Israel when Jesus comes back. Their hard hearts about him will be broke when they call out for him and look upon him who they pierced. But they will be saved, those that will endured to the end. Then Joel 3 and Matthew 25 tell of a judgement of the nations by Jesus himself. Joel 3 speaks of the division of the land, which is going on today, and Matthew 25 speaks of how the nations, whether they were sheep or goats, by how they treated his “bretheren”. The sheep enter into the kingdom which Jesus revealed in Revelation that it will be a thousand years.

So feel free to shoot holes in this 150 year old “idea” that the church will go before the tribulation. There isn’t much evidence of this being taught in the church before this time, but the teaching that the people and the land of Israel are cast off certainly are.

 

[dessert]

The timing of the rapture in dispentionalism has to do the start of the tribulation. Believers in a pre-tribulation catching away are accussed that they just want to “avoid suffering and persecution”. The fact is the dead in Christ rise first before those who are alive in Christ. Its all about the bridegroom coming for his bride to “steal her away” like a thief in the night.

So when is Israel inserted back into prophecy, Jesus’ church, his bride, who is filled with the Holy Spirit, with their lamps trimmed and ready with oil, is taking to heaven where Jesus prepared a place for them. This happens at a time only his Father knows. With the church gone, Gods focus is centered on Israel. In all the labor pains it will have to go through, all Israel will be reconciled with the God of Israel when Jesus comes back. Their hard hearts about him will be broke when they call out for him and look upon him who they pierced. But they will be saved, those that will endured to the end. Then Joel 3 and Matthew 25 tell of a judgement of the nations by Jesus himself. Joel 3 speaks of the division of the land, which is going on today, and Matthew 25 speaks of how the nations, whether they were sheep or goats, by how they treated his “bretheren”. The sheep enter into the kingdom which Jesus revealed in Revelation that it will be a thousand years.

So feel free to shoot holes in this 150 year old “idea” that the church will go before the tribulation. There isn’t much evidence of this being taught in the church before this time, but the teaching that the people and the land of Israel are cast off certainly are.

I would wonder what would happen if I were pregnant and the whole thing just was a scare threat. I had fears of my baby being ripped out of me.

I also thought that if my dh and I were engaged in an act where we would be embarrassed if we were raptured

I prayed I was an Israelite born Jew and had dreams about being in the Holy Land at the time, wanting to be up in the air or at the right place at the right time,I watch too much movies.

I think some of my ancestors are Prussian though

I look back now and wonder how I was so persuaded so easy, scare tactics again.
Dessert