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Scott_Lafrance
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Iām working on it, although I tend to shy away from recommending executions anymore. Too much paperwork.
Humor aside, the Church has been in the middle of an Inquisition of sorts for many years now. People donāt recognize it because it doesnāt get as much bad press as the Spanish Inquisition. One of the things rooted out by this modern Inquisition is the Society of Saint Pius X (SSPX), the founder of which (Bishop Marcel Lefebvre) and his group were excommunicated by Pope John Paul II, as was the American pro-choice lobby Catholics for a Free Choice.
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Church_Militant
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Pixie_Dust
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It would be torture to run to assist a vomiting child and step on something like that in the middle of the night!
To the OP: Anytime you encounter a Catholic who says something that sounds wrong, or deviant from what you know about Catholicism, you should just ask them point blank if thatās their personal opinion or the official teaching of the Church.
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Scott_Lafrance
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Yah, I clarified my comments.
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Church_Militant
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I suspected that you would.Yah, I clarified my comments.
Now back to our regularly scheduled thread which we rejoin in progressā¦
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Debra_C
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Of course, there are those in the Church who do not keep all its doctrines. We are all sinners after all. Show me a perfect Protestant, would you please? What about the Protestant minister who steadfastly preaches against sexual immorality but later gets publicly caught up in the scandal of adultery? (As a teen I watched as oneās ordination was pulled because he not only committed adultery, but he did so with a congregation memberās teenage daughter.) The Church is filled with people, and people, even when they know and accept the truth, make mistakes and committ sins. That is why we have the Sacrament of Reconciliation.
What is unified in the Catholic Church is the core doctrine. However, there is a lot that is not specified in that doctrine as well. The Church gives her people a relatively wide latitude in persuing their personal spirituality and relationship with God. In fact, there are two major traditions within the Church now which are both in keeping with core Doctrine and fall under the authority of the Pope. They are known as the Roman or Latin Rite and the Eastern Rite. Traditions of practice vary quite a lot between the two. There are also adjustments to the Mass rubrics to take into account the fact that in some cultures, the same gesture may have different meanings as well. These are all handled by the national conferences of Bishops and approved by the Pope before being put into practice. For example, in the United States we kneel during the consecration, but in another culture, perhaps standing is the most appropriate way to express the same humility and respect for this crucial moment in the liturgy.
There are many orders of religious that have different means of seeking the same goals and have different callings and charisms. There are a variety of lay apostolates such as Opus Sanctorem Angelorum, The Legion of Mary, the Apostolate of Holy Motherhood, and the now wildly famous Opus Dei. There are mystics and contemplatives, and then there are charasmatic Catholicsāboth celebrate the same gifts of the Holy Spirit in sometimes drastically different fashion. Yet both of these spiritualities are valid and, though different in personal practice, comply with Catholic Doctrine. That is part of the Catholic Churchās true universality.
This does not excuse those Catholics who blantantly defy the teaching authority of the Church. Though, they are no less Catholics, they are in grave spiritual danger. Instead of blaming the Church for the failings of some of its members, let us pray for those members who are failing that God will strengthen them in their faith, in their trust, and in their understanding of the teaching authority of the Church, and that the Holy Spirit will guide them back home.
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Timmy_Z
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Real quick as I am late for workā¦
Why are those who ādissent and reject the valid teachings of the churchā allowed to remain in a visible, āunifiedā church??
Prots in general? No we donāt claim it
We are discussing the RCC claim of church unity (leave prots out of it, as we donāt claim it). The RCC makes the claim of unity (within its visible church). That unity is false (does not exist).
Thanks for all the replies everyone,
Tim
Protestants do not pretend to be a unified visible church, RCās do. We all acknowledge there are dissenters is every church. The RCās claim unity while there is dissent that is not excommunicated within (and we can all think of very public names as an example).
Why are those who ādissent and reject the valid teachings of the churchā allowed to remain in a visible, āunifiedā church??
In my local church? Yes we practice church discipline (excommunication)
Prots in general? No we donāt claim it
Michael, you keep bringing up this N-C to RC best/worst comparison and it makes no sense to me as I do not understand how it pertains to the discussion.
We are discussing the RCC claim of church unity (leave prots out of it, as we donāt claim it). The RCC makes the claim of unity (within its visible church). That unity is false (does not exist).
Thanks for all the replies everyone,
Tim
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Debra_C
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The problem is that you are confusing the āunityā of the Roman Catholic Church with the perfection of its members in keeping its doctrines and creed. The Church does not claim all its members to be perfect. We never have. We claim unity of doctrine and creed. This we do have. That individuals have difficulty in keeping to this doctrine and creed to varying degrees is not disunity of doctrineāitās called individual sin.
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GandalfTheWhite
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The Church is unified in belief and doctrine. Of course it isnāt a dictatorship so you canāt expect that there is a definite statement about everything. However the essential things you mention are clearly stated. There are however people who reject these things. This is however not an argument against the Church. Why?
Because people who for example ordain women go agaist the Church. By going agaist the Church they thus do not represent itās teaching. People who knowingly fall into these heresies in fact place themselves outside of the Church.
Because people who for example ordain women go agaist the Church. By going agaist the Church they thus do not represent itās teaching. People who knowingly fall into these heresies in fact place themselves outside of the Church.
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Teflon93
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Thatās the rub with Atemiāour heretics are his liberators.
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Ani_Ibi
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What is the RCC? 
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Scott_Lafrance
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Its an acronym that stands for Roman Catholic Church, which USUALLY stands for the Catholic Church in toto, whereas most Catholics understand Roman Catholicism to mean adherents to the Latin Rite of the Catholic Church (which is only ONE of the 26 or so liturgical rites in the Church).What is the RCC?
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Ani_Ibi
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Does that mean I can come out of the fridge now? :angel1:
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Ani_Ibi
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So why donāt folks just say āCatholic Churchā? After all I donāt use Ac for Anglican churches as Ac could mean a kind of electrical current. I donāt use Pc for Pentecostal churchs as Pc could mean politically correct. I donāt use Mc for Methodist churches as Mc could mean master of ceremonies. Bc could mean Before Christ instead of Baptist churches. And so on.
I agree with Jimmy Akinās 2noorulz and suggest that RCC be stricken from acceptability too. I certainly donāt answer to it. One thing about whistling at the dog, if the dog donāt recognize the whistle, the dog aintā a-gonna be a comin any time soon.
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Joel_Tunnah
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If B16 excommunicated every dissenter/heretic, there would be a flood of posts, āWhy is the RCC so intolerant?ā. The Times headline would read, āReturn of the Inquisition?ā
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Ani_Ibi
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Oh now Iām really torn. What should I do? Collect firewood for the heretics or flip hamburgers for the Tiber-swimmers beach barbecue? Can someone help me?
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ALLFORHIM
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If that happened there woulndt be 1 billion catholics anymore. I would imagine the number would drop drastically.If B16 excommunicated every dissenter/heretic, there would be a flood of posts, āWhy is the RCC so intolerant?ā. The Times headline would read, āReturn of the Inquisition?ā
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Ani_Ibi
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Timmy Z:
Timmy Z:
Timmy Z:
Timmy Z:
This of course is no more than anecdotal but in any case please set out your anecdotal evidence. What exactly has your experience been of going from parish to parish?
Timmy Z:
It is.
Timmy Z:
It isnāt.
Timmy Z:
Is misrepresenting Church teaching grown up?It is then insinuated that I am asking for torture and brutal murder. Grow Up.
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Ani_Ibi
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The Pope has said that the Church will get smaller. Itās early in his papacy yet.If that happened there woulndt be 1 billion catholics anymore. I would imagine the number would drop drastically.
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