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Scott_Lafrance
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Pope Benedict has been quite public in his belief that he prefers a leaner, more devote Church.If that happened there woulndt be 1 billion catholics anymore. I would imagine the number would drop drastically.
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Lampo
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I believe you. Could you point me to where he said this? Thanks.
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ALLFORHIM
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This Pope has said that? Why does he say that?
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Church_Militant
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to be a unified visible church, RC’s do. We all acknowledge there are dissenters is every church. The RC’s claim unity while there is dissent that is not excommunicated within (and we can all think of very public names as an example).
Why are those who “dissent and reject the valid teachings of the church” allowed to remain in a visible, “unified” church??And well they should not! If your intention was to infer a Catholic pretension to unity, that is a specious inference, as I have already shown.
Already addressed elsewhere in this thread.
Yeah… as I said earlier, I’ve seen that in action. My own experience was that no one wanted to do what the Word of God mandated…and that the reality is that most n-C communities think of themselves as some sort of “hotel for saints” so they handle most brethren who stumble or fall but just ejecting them. I grant that I have not experienced all n-C communities, but the impression that I get from your posts and those of Atemi is that you seem to think that that is the appropriate response. The Catholic Church deals with this (IMV) in a more scriptural and remedial way.
Can you point to any such authority and unity of doctrine among your own community?
s in general? No we don’t claim it(If I cannot use the short perjorative according to the Forum Rules, it is unacceptable for you to do so either.
Exactly my point…which is a good thing since you have no authority over the lot of you that could even begin to approach it.
Yeah… well perhaps you haven’t thought your own arguments through well enough to see it then.
Dissenters and errant Catholics are no more the standard of faithful Catholic belief and practice than Jim Jones, David Koresh, the “word of faith” preachers, snake handlers, and the host of n-C cult leaders (often calling themselves “non-denominational”) and even pro-choice politicians in office. Are these the people that you wish me to assert are the exemplary n-Cs from your various faith communities? I doubt it, so I expect the same courtesy and common sense from you and all n-Cs entering this discussion.
If you cannot understand that then I suggest that you consider the old adage that “those who live in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones.”
s out of it, as we don’t claim it).Again with the rules violation…and I think you have been here at CAF far long enough to know better.
.Only in your specious arguments.
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I will not leave Protestants (and all n-C Christian faith communities) out of this discussion,** as, just as I have shown in all my posts so far, you have no valid argument because you have chosen to allege that unfaithful Catholics as exemplary of a fallacious and specious argument for a lack of unity, when in fact, the faithful Catholics are exemplary of our most holy faith and its unity.
By your own logic, you would then allow Catholics to make a very biased and equally specious argument that the worst faithless n-Cs are exemplary of your own lack of unity of authority and doctrine. The fact that you do not (and cannot) lay claim to any real unity is in fact, one of the very reasons that we Catholics reject your myriad belief systems.
Catholic dogma and doctrine is authoritatively defined. Using specious arguments in an attempt to indict the Catholic Church only manifests some sort of anti-Catholic agenda IMV.
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slo2lurn
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sombody said something about going from parish to parish and different things are taught. i dont know what parish church militant belongs to and i dont know what parish mschrank belongs to and i dont know what parish Father sherpa belongs to and I dont know what parish Michele arnold belongs to and i know I probably belong to a diferent parish like many more catholics here but im sure that we all agree on the teachings of the cathlic church on baptism purgatory, the pope the eucharist Mary the immaculate conception confession the sacraments the saints and more and more. oh, and the assumption. If that person who said that different things are taught can give examples it would be nice.
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Scott_Lafrance
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Some reference, although I misspoke and I think the terminology used is “a smaller, purer Church”.
businessweek.com/magazine/content/05_18/b3931074_mz054.htm
businessweek.com/magazine/content/05_18/b3931071_mz054.htm
foxnews.com/story/0,2933,153926,00.html
msnbc.msn.com/id/7560325/
findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0MKY/is_9_29/ai_n14735890
closedcafeteria.blogspot.com/2007/08/quote-of-day_12.html
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Scott_Lafrance
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Because he has an underriding belief that many of the pastoral reforms of Vatican II have created an environment where people think they can deny the legitimacy of certain inconvenient doctrines of the church (such as its utter repudiation of artificial contraception, abortion, euthanasia, socialism, among others), creating a phenomenon (primarily in America) known as Cafeteria Catholics. When Benedict was selected, many conservative, orthodox Catholics (I am part of that crowd, as I know many on this board are as well) began to chant “The Cafeteria is CLOSED”.
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mercygate
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So does B-16. Based on scriptural prophesies, he estimates that the faithful remnant could be as small as 2%.If that happened there woulndt be 1 billion catholics anymore. I would imagine the number would drop drastically.
Of course, the OP would then be faced with having to deal with doctrine and would no longer have the scandal of unfaithfulness to whack the church with.
Other people’s sins are always such a easy target.
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Teflon93
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Well, what will non-Catholics have to complain about once they can’t point to bad Catholics?
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Scott_Lafrance
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The usual stuff, worshipping Mary, Purgatory, Real Presence in the Eucharist, Infant Baptism, Call no man Father, the ministerial priesthood, clerical celebacy, etc…
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Church_Militant
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Because he will not yield to dissenters and such. This also coincides with the Gospel that was read and preached upon last Sunday.
Lk 13:22-30
Jesus passed through towns and villages,
teaching as he went and making his way to Jerusalem.
Someone asked him,
“Lord, will only a few people be saved?”
He answered them,
“Strive to enter through the narrow gate,
for many, I tell you, will attempt to enter
but will not be strong enough.
After the master of the house has arisen and locked the door,
then will you stand outside knocking and saying,
‘Lord, open the door for us.’
He will say to you in reply,
‘I do not know where you are from.
And you will say,
‘We ate and drank in your company and you taught in our streets.’
Then he will say to you,
‘I do not know where you are from.
Depart from me, all you evildoers!’
And there will be wailing and grinding of teeth
when you see Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob
and all the prophets in the kingdom of God
and you yourselves cast out.
And people will come from the east and the west
and from the north and the south
and will recline at table in the kingdom of God.
For behold, some are last who will be first,
and some are first who will be last.”
…and expanded upon in a couple of his recent homilies here, and here.
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Teflon93
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Church_Militant
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Scott_Lafrance
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Hey, maybe Jesus will return tomorrow and put an end to all this brickabrack.
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slo2lurn
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It can also mean hamburgers. ill take mine with double cheese please
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Scott_Lafrance
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I usually put that in front of the word church to conote all the storefront “Full Gospel, Open Bible Church” lead by Apostle Puffanstuff.
McChurch, McChurches.
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ALLFORHIM
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Yes it is always easier to blame everyone else. I was just telling my son the old phrase People who live in glass houses shouldnt throw stones and of course we all live in glass houses so–well you get my point.
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ALLFORHIM
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AMEN!!!:extrahappy: :dancing: :bounce:
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Nordar
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slo2lurn
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help… did i do something wrong. this has nothing to do with this thread but when i post somthing why do i keep getting e-mail that sombody has posted a reply. it is anoying. will this go on forever. if so maybe ill cancel and stop posting and just read and try to learn…
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