The real first day of the week

[Deconi]

Remember also that we are - Western civilisation - under the Gregorian Calendar which was commenced by Pope, St.Gregory.

He ‘eradicated’ 15 and a half days from the old calendar system - which effectively means that any who thinks they’ve continued the ‘Sabbath’ from antiquity, is deluded.

For your continuing research on the subject…

 

[DelsonJacobs]

thankyou to all for your responses but I didnt want to turn this into a debate about the sabbath verses sunday as this issue is already settled in my mind and I know the issue is already settled in your mind. I left another forum called carm because of the disgusting behaviour particularly by protestants towards catholics. I publicly voiced my disgust of this behaviour by protestants on the catholic forum on carm and received the same treatment for it. I am hoping this forum will be a breath of fresh air for me. I simply wanted to know if the church had any written documentation to support the illedged change of the weekly cycle and if it was important to catholics that they observe the same sunday as the first century.
Your brother in Christ Kevin

We do observe the same Sabbath as in the first century. I’ve already mentioned this, and this information has been easily accessible even before the Internet was invented.

However it appears that members of the SDA believe history has been tampered with. So regardless of what I show you or say it will not be believed because, as you can see from the arguing above, we don’t accept the same authority.

As I mentioned before, I am not only a Roman Catholic–I am a Jew.

I am of the seed of Abraham. Both my mother’s side and my father’s side are from the tribe of Judah. We have a connection with or may actually be members of the house of David. As such I do not need a Gentile–even one of my Catholic bretheren–to remind me of the importance of the Sabbath or to teach my people’s own history to me (and neither would any of them dare to presume to do such).

Therefore these comments from you SDA members are personally insulting to me, not only as a Roman Catholic, but as a Jew.

Is this the way SDA members feel about Jews? You speak about the Torah and the Sabbath as if I, a literal son of Abraham, have no comprehension or could ever possibly have the true view on the matter. But would you have known any of the Law without us? I may not be a member of Judaism because of being a Christian, but I promise you I know far more of Torah and in its original tongue than you could ever know.

The attitude of you SDA members on this thread has personally been very hurtful and I find it as anti-Semitic. Do you think this recommends you to us? It does not.

 

[Deconi]

…

The attitude of you SDA members on this thread has personally been very hurtful and I find it as anti-Semitic. Do you think this recommends you to us? It does not.

To disagree with Judaism, even out of ignorance, should not be taken as anti-Semitic (with much respect to our forefathers - I have been traced to Ham, apparently!) To actually research and understand Judaism in detail, then continue to propagate that which you know to be false!..Ahh!..then you may point toward such a charge!? Surely.

As frustrating as it is, anti-Catholicism, use the same trodden path! Whilst ignorance is no defence, one should always be prepared to hold out the olive branch with an avenue toward Truth, rather than close that window and allow ‘ignorance’ to continue on it’s way without a ‘torch.’ Surely?..

 

[Remnant1]

We do observe the same Sabbath as in the first century. I’ve already mentioned this, and this information has been easily accessible even before the Internet was invented.

However it appears that members of the SDA believe history has been tampered with. So regardless of what I show you or say it will not be believed because, as you can see from the arguing above, we don’t accept the same authority.

As I mentioned before, I am not only a Roman Catholic–I am a Jew.

I am of the seed of Abraham. Both my mother’s side and my father’s side are from the tribe of Judah. We have a connection with or may actually be members of the house of David. As such I do not need a Gentile–even one of my Catholic bretheren–to remind me of the importance of the Sabbath or to teach my people’s own history to me (and neither would any of them dare to presume to do such).

Therefore these comments from you SDA members are personally insulting to me, not only as a Roman Catholic, but as a Jew.

I’m assumming that you are talking about the dialogue with me. Could you be a little more specific. I reread my post and I can’t find anyplace where I have in any way insulted you. Unless you consider disagreeing with you an insult.

Is this the way SDA members feel about Jews?

What way is that?

You speak about the Torah and the Sabbath as if I, a literal son of Abraham, have no comprehension or could ever possibly have the true view on the matter. But would you have known any of the Law without us? I may not be a member of Judaism because of being a Christian, but I promise you I know far more of Torah and in its original tongue than you could ever know.

We would have known exactly what God wants us to know.

The attitude of you SDA members on this thread has personally been very hurtful and I find it as anti-Semitic. Do you think this recommends you to us? It does not.

What attitude is that Delson? Again I have looked over my post and have found nothing hurtful to you in any way and as for anti-Semitic, that’s just ridiculous.

God is love
Remnant1

 

[ConstantineTG]

Remember also that we are - Western civilisation - under the Gregorian Calendar which was commenced by Pope, St.Gregory.

He ‘eradicated’ 15 and a half days from the old calendar system - which effectively means that any who thinks they’ve continued the ‘Sabbath’ from antiquity, is deluded.

For your continuing research on the subject…

The cycle of Sunday-Saturday remained intact. To this day various Eastern Catholic and Orthodox Churches still use the Julian Calendar for Liturgical Feast Days. Their Sundays are on the same day as our Sundays even though they are 13 days behind right now.

 

[kja]

We do observe the same Sabbath as in the first century. I’ve already mentioned this, and this information has been easily accessible even before the Internet was invented.

However it appears that members of the SDA believe history has been tampered with. So regardless of what I show you or say it will not be believed because, as you can see from the arguing above, we don’t accept the same authority.

As I mentioned before, I am not only a Roman Catholic–I am a Jew.

I am of the seed of Abraham. Both my mother’s side and my father’s side are from the tribe of Judah. We have a connection with or may actually be members of the house of David. As such I do not need a Gentile–even one of my Catholic bretheren–to remind me of the importance of the Sabbath or to teach my people’s own history to me (and neither would any of them dare to presume to do such).

Therefore these comments from you SDA members are personally insulting to me, not only as a Roman Catholic, but as a Jew.

Is this the way SDA members feel about Jews? You speak about the Torah and the Sabbath as if I, a literal son of Abraham, have no comprehension or could ever possibly have the true view on the matter. But would you have known any of the Law without us? I may not be a member of Judaism because of being a Christian, but I promise you I know far more of Torah and in its original tongue than you could ever know.

The attitude of you SDA members on this thread has personally been very hurtful and I find it as anti-Semitic. Do you think this recommends you to us? It does not.

could you please show me where I said something that is insulting to jews? or to anybody for that matter. I am not the one saying that the seventh day has been changed, I am simply researching this matter as it was said to me by non sdas that the seventh day has been changed since the first century. Your feelings of offense are misdirected if you think it is SDAs that are saying the seventh day has been changed since the first century. I think I can safely say that nothing I said was insulting to anybody. However if anybody has been offended by anything I hace said, I sincerely apologise.

 

[kja]

We do observe the same Sabbath as in the first century. I’ve already mentioned this, and this information has been easily accessible even before the Internet was invented…

I didnt know that Roman catholics were allowed to observe the sabbath. I find that interesting

However it appears that members of the SDA believe history has been tampered with. .

It is actually non SDA protestants that are saying this, not SDAs.

So regardless of what I show you or say it will not be believed because, as you can see from the arguing above, we don’t accept the same authority…

I trust we both accept the bible as an authority.

As I mentioned before, I am not only a Roman Catholic–I am a Jew…

I dont mean to insult you but your bloodline or my bloodline or anybodies bloodline means nothing to God anymore. In Gods eyes I am just as much the seed of Abraham as you are because I am in Christ Jesus. I am truly sorry if that offends you but you are asking me to respect the fact that you are jewish by birth. I cannot accept that. In Gods eyes we are only jewish by the new birth. It is by Jesus’ blood not our blood that we are jews.

I am of the seed of Abraham. .

So am I.

Both my mother’s side and my father’s side are from the tribe of Judah. We have a connection with or may actually be members of the house of David. As such I do not need a Gentile–even one of my Catholic bretheren–to remind me of the importance of the Sabbath or to teach my people’s own history to me (and neither would any of them dare to presume to do such)…

Neither would I. Im not teaching Im asking.

Therefore these comments from you SDA members are personally insulting to me, not only as a Roman Catholic, but as a Jew…

Which comments?

Is this the way SDA members feel about Jews? You speak about the Torah and the Sabbath as if I, a literal son of Abraham, .

I am a literal son of Abraham too.

have no comprehension or could ever possibly have the true view on the matter. .

I dont claim to have a true view of the matter. I came here asking questions not preaching my view to you.

But would you have known any of the Law without us? I may not be a member of Judaism because of being a Christian, but I promise you I know far more of Torah and in its original tongue than you could ever know…

I honestly dont understand you angst.

The attitude of you SDA members on this thread has personally been very hurtful and I find it as anti-Semitic. Do you think this recommends you to us? It does not.

I am not trying to recommend myself to you I am simply trying to learn, not teach.

 

[Patrocinor]

Is the first day of the week (Sunday) we observe today the same first day of the week that Jesus rose from the dead or has the weekly 7 day cycle changed? Is there any church documentation to confirm either way. Is this issue important to Roman Catholic Christians? Thanks in advance for your response.
Kevin

It is through Sacred Tradition and later Scripture to verify Sacred Tradition (Acts 20:7) that Sunday became the day to celebrate the rising of Jesus from the dead. An Easter of sorts every Sunday. Early Christians celebrated the breaking of the bread on Sunday in peoples homes. Sunday became known as the Lord’s day and the Didache Ch XIV 1 speaks of coming together to break bread, give thanks and confess transgressions so your sacrifice may be pure on the Lord’s Day. For Christians it evolved into the new Sabbath. Some Christians still revert to the Saturday Sabbath but that was not until almost 1600 years or more after the resurrection.

 

[Remnant1]

It is through Sacred Tradition and later Scripture to verify Sacred Tradition (Acts 20:7) that Sunday became the day to celebrate the rising of Jesus from the dead. An Easter of sorts every Sunday.

Acts 17
17 Now when they had passed through Amphipolis and Apollonia, they came to Thessalonica, where was a synagogue of the Jews:
2 And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures,
3 Opening and alleging, that Christ must needs have suffered, and risen again from the dead; and that this Jesus, whom I preach unto you, is Christ.

In the book of Acts it talks about Paul preaching on the Sabbath day on close to 200 occasions. He was obviously doing the same thing in Troas in Acts 20 “as his manner was” where he preached until supper time (sundown) when it became Sunday, the first day of the week, and since He would be departing and probably would not be back this way, he preached almost all night long. This was no confirmation of the first day replacing the Sabbath.

God is love
Remnant1

Early Christians celebrated the breaking of the bread on Sunday in peoples homes. Sunday became known as the Lord’s day and the Didache Ch XIV 1 speaks of coming together to break bread, give thanks and confess transgressions so your sacrifice may be pure on the Lord’s Day.

The breaking of bread is also a term used for people comming together to eat.

For Christians it evolved into the new Sabbath. Some Christians still revert to the Saturday Sabbath but that was not until almost 1600 years or more after the resurrection.

There has always been a remnant that keep the commandments and have the faith of Jesus Rev.14:12

 

[pablope]

My authority comes from the word of God.

Pardon me…but your authority does not come from the word of God. The authority you think comes from your intepretation…which has no connection with the Apostles.

How can I distinguish your claimed authority from that of the Mormons, the JWs, the Lutheran, the Calvinist or any one with a Bible on a street corner claiming to know the word of God?

For an example of how authority was conferred, you have to look at the example of St. Paul in Acts 13, where he is laid hands on prior to his going on his first missionary journey.

So here is my further question to you…how did the Bible confer authority to you? Following the example of St. Paul in acts 13, who did the HS call you send you and who with apostolic roots laid hands on you?

Otherwise, your claim is as valid as a Mormon, JWs or anyone on a street corner claiming to know the word of God.

There is not a shred of evidence that God has in any way changed the Sabbath because of Jesus rising on the first day.

 

[pablope]

Did you read this pablope?

Eze 20:11 And I gave them my statutes, and shewed them my judgments, which [if] a man do, he shall even live in them.
Eze 20:12 Moreover also I gave them my sabbaths, to be a sign between me and them, that they might know that I [am] the LORD that sanctify them.

 

[pablope]

thankyou to all for your r

I simply wanted to know if the church had any written documentation to support the illedged change of the weekly cycle and if it was important to catholics that they observe the same sunday as the first century.
Your brother in Christ Kevin

The evidence is evident in the common life, common teachings, common worship and liturgy of the Apostolic Churches…this is called Sacred Tradition.

And we do not worry whether Sunday of the first century is the same Sunday as today…we the CC will always get it right because of the guidance of the HS in that the HS will not lead the Church to error. Remember the promise of Christ…the gates of Hades shall not prevail against her church.

Frankly, those worrying about whether it is the right sunday or day of the week…is this is what you are worrying about, you are standing on this ice, is this is the only claim to legitimacy you have.

 

[pablope]

[SIGN]

[/SIGN]

Then why don’t you trust the Church that it got it right? Why do you worry?

Who would rather believe-the ancient apostolic churches who maintain the apostolic tradition or those who claimed to have received revelation in the 1800s?

 

[pablope]

Acts 17

1
Remnant1

 

[Remnant1]

ing together to eat.

 

[Miriam1947]

The Catholic church doesn’t keep the fourth commandment? Do they?

Mark 2:25-28

25 And he said to them, “Have you never read what David did when he and his companions were hungry and in need of food? 26 He entered the house of God, when Abiathar was high priest, and ate the bread of the Presence, which it is not lawful for any but the priests to eat, and he gave some to his companions.” 27 Then he said to them, “The sabbath was made for humankind, and not humankind for the sabbath; 28 so the Son of Man is lord even of the sabbath.”

 

[Remnant1]

Mark 2:25-28

25 And he said to them, “Have you never read what David did when he and his companions were hungry and in need of food? 26 He entered the house of God, when Abiathar was high priest, and ate the bread of the Presence, which it is not lawful for any but the priests to eat, and he gave some to his companions.” 27 Then he said to them, “The sabbath was made for humankind, and not humankind for the sabbath; 28 so the Son of Man is lord even of the sabbath.”

Are you saying that what David did in this story is the same as not keeping the ten commandments? So therefore we are at liberty to not keep the commandments?

 

[pablope]

Acts27
34 Wherefore I pray you to take some meat: for this is for your health: for there shall not an hair fall from the head of any of you.

No. As I had stated…only in the SDA interpretation does the Scripture conflict…not in the Catholic understanding and interpretation because we still carry the apostolic meaning.

The SDA interpretation centers on trying to disprove the CC. Aside from the Bible, there is the apostolic tradition, which is evident and continues to live in the common life, common teaching, common worship and liturgy of the Church.

This shows how the basis of your and sda interpretation:

Ecclesial Deism

calledtocommunion.com/2009/07/ecclesial-deism/

‘Tradition’ becomes whatever one agrees with in the history of the Church, such as the Nicene Creed or Chalcedonian Christology…What makes it ‘authoritative’ for Mohler is that it agrees with his interpretation of Scripture. If he encounters something in the tradition that seems extra-biblical or opposed to Scripture he rejects it. For that reason, tradition does not authoritatively guide his interpretation. His interpretation picks out what counts as tradition, and then this tradition informs his interpretation.

Substitute your name for Mohler. Your understanding and interpretation are based on the claims of EGW…not the Apostles.

So another question to you…what makes your understanding authoritative over that of the CC? Where did the SDA gets its authority?

God is love
Remnant1

The Catholic church doesn’t keep the fourth commandment? Do they?

What is the 4th commandment to you? And how do you think the CC does not keep it?

And are you the authority to say whether the CC keeps it or not?

 

[504Katrin]

I am truly sorry if that offends you but you are asking me to respect the fact that you are jewish by birth. I cannot accept that. In Gods eyes we are only jewish by the new birth. It is by Jesus’ blood not our blood that we are jews..

I might not be the sharpest knife in the drawer but this is too much for me. Would you care to explain, please?

 

[SAVINGRACE]

I might not be the sharpest knife in the drawer but this is too much for me. Would you care to explain, please?

:banghead:

Yes I would like to read the explanation too for this one.