The real first day of the week

[SteveVH]

Are you saying that what David did in this story is the same as not keeping the ten commandments? So therefore we are at liberty to not keep the commandments?

I think the point is that Christ is Lord even of the Sabbath. He rose on Sunday and what we now celebrate is his life, death and resurrection on the day that he rose from the dead. With Jesus came God’s New Covenant with man, a covenant in his blood; an everlasting covenant. The Lord’s day is now Sunday. Rather than burnt offerings in the Temple on the Sabbath, we now offer the one, perfect sacrifice of Jesus Christ on the day that he rose.

What this has to do with not keeping the ten commandments I have no idea. Of course we must keep the ten commandments, and even more.

 

[SAVINGRACE]

SDA’s are solely focussed on the written word of God, the Bible. Catholics are focussed on the Word of God made flesh, i.e. Jesus alongside Sacred Scripture and Sacred Tradition. We all know the Church existed prior to the Bible, that the Church has always interpreted Scripture and that the CC gave the Bible as we know it to the world.

Do SDA’s think that because the CC instructs that we must attend Mass on a Sunday then that is breaking the OT law of keeping the Sabbath holy?

For Catholics Jesus is the New Covenant and therefore his Ressurrection Day (Sunday) is the holiest day of the week. We are no longer bound by the old Covenant with regard to day of worship. That doesn’t mean Catholics throw out the Commandments etc, that is a simplistic argument to make.

Catholics accept that Saturday is the Sabbath but it’s not the Sabbath for the majority of Catholics. It is the Sabbath for Jews and also it appears for SDA’s. Also, please correct me if I am wrong, Hebrew/Jewish Catholics are permitted by the Church to observe the Sabbath.

We then have Scripture quoted and urged to believe that the written word of God is all the authority required. Why should Catholics believe what SDA’s have interpreted that sentence to mean in a vacuum?

So the real question is whose interpretation of Sacred Scripture and Tradition do we trust?

The Bible’s words can be twisted to support any heresy without proper interpretation guided by the Holy Spirit. BTW I am not saying the SDA practice of worshipping on a Saturday is a heresy, I have attended Saturday Mass from time to time.

Does the Holy Spirit guide the biblical interpretation of the SDA’s who arrived in the 1800’s or the Catholic Church which has been around for 2000 years?

 

[Remnant1]

Acts27
34 Wherefore I pray you to take some meat: for this is for your health: for there shall not an hair fall from the head of any of you.

35 And when he had thus spoken, he took bread, and gave thanks to God in presence of them all: and when he had broken it, he began to eat.

36 Then were they all of good cheer, and they also took some meat.

Are you seriously saying that this doesn’t say that they are having a meal after breaking bread. Ok, what is the apostolic meaning of this passage?

The SDA interpretation centers on trying to disprove the CC.

This statement is absolutely false. The Catholic Church does not even enter the equation. The SDA interpretation centers on knowing the truth through the movement of the Holy Spirit of God.

Aside from the Bible, there is the apostolic tradition, which is evident and continues to live in the common life, common teaching, common worship and liturgy of the Church.

This shows how the basis of your and sda interpretation:

Ecclesial Deism

calledtocommunion.com/2009/07/ecclesial-deism/

‘Tradition’ becomes whatever one agrees with in the history of the Church, such as the Nicene Creed or Chalcedonian Christology…What makes it ‘authoritative’ for Mohler is that it agrees with his interpretation of Scripture. If he encounters something in the tradition that seems extra-biblical or opposed to Scripture he rejects it. For that reason, tradition does not authoritatively guide his interpretation. His interpretation picks out what counts as tradition, and then this tradition informs his interpretation.

Substitute your name for Mohler. Your understanding and interpretation are based on the claims of EGW…not the Apostles.

So another question to you…what makes your understanding authoritative over that of the CC? Where did the SDA gets its authority?

Understanding of what?

What is the 4th commandment to you? And how do you think the CC does not keep it?

And are you the authority to say whether the CC keeps it or not?

Exodus20

8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.

9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:

10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:

11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

So do you?

God is love
Remnant1

 

[Remnant1]

I think the point is that Christ is Lord even of the Sabbath. He rose on Sunday and what we now celebrate is his life, death and resurrection on the day that he rose from the dead. With Jesus came God’s New Covenant with man, a covenant in his blood; an everlasting covenant. The Lord’s day is now Sunday. Rather than burnt offerings in the Temple on the Sabbath, we now offer the one, perfect sacrifice of Jesus Christ on the day that he rose.

What this has to do with not keeping the ten commandments I have no idea. Of course we must keep the ten commandments, and even more.

Psalm89
34 My covenant will I not break, nor alter the thing that is gone out of my lips.

 

[SAVINGRACE]

Christ, while observing the Sabbath, set himself in word and act against this absurd rigorism which made man a slave of the day. He reproved the scribes and Pharisees for putting an intolerable burden on men’s shoulders (Matt., xxiii, 4), and proclaimed the principle that “the sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath” (Mark, ii, 27).

Jesus cured on the Sabbath, and defended His disciples for plucking ears of corn on that day. In His arguments with the Pharisees on this account He showed that the Sabbath is not broken in cases of necessity or by acts of charity (Matt., xii, 3 sqq.; Mark, ii, 25 sqq.; Luke, vi, 3 sqq.; xiv, 5). St. Paul enumerates the Sabbath among the Jewish observances which are not obligatory on Christians (Col., ii, 16; Gal., iv, 9-10; Rom., xiv, 5).

The gentile converts held their religious meetings on Sunday (Acts, xx, 7; I Cor., xvi, 2), and with the disappearance of the Jewish Christian churches this day was exclusively observed as the Lord’s Day.

(Catholic Encyclopedia)

 

[504Katrin]

Both is correct. According to my former Parish Priest that I asked back then a year ago or so Catholics are to keep the Sabbath *and *the Lords’ day. He said that Catholics should keep the Sabbath on Saturday and celebrate Sunday in order to commemorate Jesus. He also said that he kept the Sabbath as much as possible. There’re no laws on how to keep the Sunday, though, so… I don’t know

not sure why you guys moved it at all. Someone said it’s due to the fact that Jesus resurrected on a Sunday. That still doesn’t change G-ds’ schedule. The Sabbath is still from Friday nightfall till Saturday nightfall. So I agree with that Catholic Priest that Catholics should celebrate both days. You’re not obligated to keep the Sabbath though, but you might be missing out.

 

[Remnant1]

Christ, while observing the Sabbath, set himself in word and act against this absurd rigorism which made man a slave of the day. He reproved the scribes and Pharisees for putting an intolerable burden on men’s shoulders (Matt., xxiii, 4),

So you are saying that Jesus eliminated the Ten commandments here? Wait were not the ten commandments spoken by God’s own mouth and written with His own finger on stone and not given by the scribes and phaisees at all?

and proclaimed the principle that “the sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath” (Mark, ii, 27).

 

[pablope]

Acts27
34 Wherefore I pray you to take some meat: for this is for your health: for there shall not an hair fall from the head of any of you.

/QUOTE]

Where did I say that? The writing is a plain what is says. I said only in the SDA does this seem to be in conflict, not in the Catholic understanding, as the SDA tries to disprove the Catholic Church by citing passages that seem to be in conflict.

Are his companions Christians in this shipwreck? Have they been baptized?

The SDA interpretation centers on trying to disprove the CC

This statement is absolutely false. The Catholic Church does not even enter the equation.

Why is it false? Then why does your interpretation conflict with that of the CC? The claim of the SDA rests on the revelations of EGW, which is to restore the Jewish Sabbath…which goes against Christianinity.

The SDA interpretation centers on knowing the truth through the movement of the Holy Spirit of God.

How do you know it is from the HS? How can you prove it is the HS?

Substitute your name for Mohler. Your understanding and interpretation are based on the claims of EGW…not the Apostles.

So another question to you…what makes your understanding authoritative over that of the CC? Where did the SDA gets its authority?

Understanding of what?

Your understanding…your interpretation of Scripture? Can you prove a connection to the Apostles?

Exodus20

8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.

9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:

10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:

11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

So do you?

God is love
Remnant1

What makes you think the CC does not? What is your proof?

As was told at the beginning of the thread…we celebrate the Sabbath of the New Covenant, not the Sabbath of the Old Covenant.

 

[pablope]

Psalm89
34 My covenant will I not break, nor alter the thing that is gone out of my lips.

Can you provide which covenant the CC has broken?

It seems only in the SDA does the Scripture go against Scripture?

 

[pablope]

So you are saying that Jesus eliminated the Ten commandments here? Wait were not the ten commandments spoken by God’s own mouth and written with His own finger on stone and not given by the scribes and phaisees at all?

No, He fulfilled them and summarized them into love of God and love of neighbor.

Did you forget or miss this in one of the Gospels?

Matthew 22: 34 Hearing that Jesus had silenced the Sadducees, the Pharisees got together. 35 One of them, an expert in the law, tested him with this question: 36 “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”

37 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’[c] 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’[d] 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

 

[pablope]

S
I answered this before but here it is again

Acts 17
17 Now when they had passed through Amphipolis and Apollonia, they came to Thessalonica, where was a synagogue of the Jews:
2 And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures,
3 Opening and alleging, that Christ must needs have suffered, and risen again from the dead; and that this Jesus, whom I preach unto you, is Christ.

In the book of Acts it talks about Paul preaching on the Sabbath day on close to 200 occasions. He was obviously doing the same thing in Troas in Acts 20 “as his manner was” where he preached until supper time (sundown) when it became Sunday, the first day of the week, and since He would be departing and probably would not be back this way, he preached almost all night long. This was no confirmation of the first day replacing the Sabbath.

God is love
Remnant1

Let me ask you Remnant…is you were out to convert and speak with a lot of Catholics, to maximize your time and exposure, would you show up at a catholic parish on a Saturday or on a Sunday?

Which would be the smart thing to do?

He was obviously doing the same thing in Troas in Acts 20 “as his manner was” where he preached until supper time (sundown) when it became Sunday, the first day of the week, and since He would be departing and probably would not be back this way, he preached almost all night long. This was no confirmation of the first day replacing the Sabbath.

The actions speak for themselves.

*5 These men went on ahead and waited for us at Troas. 6 But we sailed from Philippi after the Festival of Unleavened Bread, and five days later joined the others at Troas, where we stayed seven days.

7 On the first day of the week we came together to break bread.*

Paul breaks bread, or says mass on the the first day of the week. He celebrates the new sabbath. He does not break bread any other day.

 

[Remnant1]

Jer.31
31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:

33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

This says that the new covenant will consist of God writing His law in our hearts. What law do you suppose this is talking about, pablope?

 

[Remnant1]

Can you provide which covenant the CC has broken?

It seems only in the SDA does the Scripture go against Scripture?

Isaiah24
5 The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants thereof; because they have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinance, broken the everlasting covenant.
6 Therefore hath the curse devoured the earth, and they that dwell therein are desolate: therefore the inhabitants of the earth are burned, and few men left.

What’s the everlasting covenant?

Exodus31
16 Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant.

God is love
Remnant1

 

[Remnant1]

No, He fulfilled them and summarized them into love of God and love of neighbor.

 

[pablope]

pablope;10905090:

What covenant did Christ instituted at the Last Supper and sealed with His own blood at the crucifixion?

Is Christianity under that covenant or under the OT covenant?

 

[pablope]

Isaiah24
5 The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants thereof; because they have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinance, broken the everlasting covenant.
6 Therefore hath the curse devoured the earth, and they that dwell therein are desolate: therefore the inhabitants of the earth are burned, and few men left.

What’s the everlasting covenant?

Exodus31
16 Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant.

God is love
Remnant1

Same question I asked you…which covenant?

What covenant did Christ instituted at the Last Supper and sealed with His own blood at the crucifixion?

Is Christianity under that covenant or under the OT covenant?

Mark 22:
22 While they were eating, Jesus took bread, and when he had given thanks, he broke it and gave it to his disciples, saying, “Take it; this is my body.”

23 Then he took a cup, and when he had given thanks, he gave it to them, and they all drank from it.

24 “This is my blood of the[c] covenant, which is poured out for many,” he said to them. 25 “Truly I tell you, I will not drink again from the fruit of the vine until that day when I drink it new in the kingdom of God.”

Luke 22:
17 After taking the cup, he gave thanks and said, “Take this and divide it among you. 18 For I tell you I will not drink again from the fruit of the vine until the kingdom of God comes.”

19 And he took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to them, saying, “This is my body given for you; do this in remembrance of me.”

20 In the same way, after the supper he took the cup, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood, which is poured out for you.[a] 21 But the hand of him who is going to betray me is with mine on the table. 22 The Son of Man will go as it has been decreed. But woe to that man who betrays him!” 23 They began to question among themselves which of them it might be who would do this.

 

[pablope]

By the way REmant…you did not answer these question from a previous post.

 

[Remnant1]

Let me ask you Remnant…is you were out to convert and speak with a lot of Catholics, to maximize your time and exposure, would you show up at a catholic parish on a Saturday or on a Sunday?

Which would be the smart thing to do?

Consider this passage.

Acts13
42 And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.
43 Now when the congregation was broken up, many of the Jews and religious proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas: who, speaking to them, persuaded them to continue in the grace of God.
44 And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.

Would not this have been an opportune time for Paul to say to the gentiles “Come back tomorrow on the Lord’s day and I will talk of these things”? Yet Paul does not do this. He waits for the next Sabbath. Why, Because the Sabbath wasn’t changed.

The actions speak for themselves.

*5 These men went on ahead and waited for us at Troas. 6 But we sailed from Philippi after the Festival of Unleavened Bread, and five days later joined the others at Troas, where we stayed seven days.

7 On the first day of the week we came together to break bread.*

Paul breaks bread, or says mass on the the first day of the week. He celebrates the new sabbath. He does not break bread any other day.

Paul stops for a bite to eat after preaching all day on the Sabbath.

God is love
Remnant1

 

[Remnant1]

Remnant1;10905163:

pablope;10905090:

The wording of the covenant has never changed. What has changed is who the covenant is between. The old covenant between God and the children of Israel collectively. The new covenant between God and the Children of Israel through the Mediator Jesus Christ.

God is love
Remnant1

 

[Remnant1]

Remnant1;10905163:

pablope;10905090:

Let me ask you pablope, Why did Christ come to this earth and die on the cross?