The real first day of the week

[bzkoss236]

Just throwing out there (if it hasn’t been already):

[BIBLEDRB]Colossians 2:16-17[/BIBLEDRB]

 

[bzkoss236]

Also:
St. Ignatius of Antioch:

Those who lived according to the old order of things have come to a new hope, no longer keeping the sabbath, but the Lord’s Day, in which our life is blessed by him and by his death.

St. Ignatius, who died between AD 98 and 117.

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

504Katrin;10917160]A week has only seven days.

My commentary never added another day to the only seven day week. Agreed there are only 7 days in a week.

The “eighth day” counted the days of the inaugaration of Aaron and his sons who preapared for their inaugaration for seven days, and who got annointed on the eighth day counting from the first day. I won’t get into this any further though in order to not derail this thread and other reasons.

The Hebrew hermeneutics from counting days beginning with the first day ends on the 8th day, never reveals this day to be the Sabbath 7th day when God revealed himself which is my point. Logically if one counts from the first day from Sunday 8days later brings you back to Sunday the first day. But I agree the hermeneutics of such a subject will derail the thread.

But you take that one sentence out of context, say that since there was an “eighth day” of the week and since the Christian scriptures that you continued with said the same, and voilá the Sunday has to be the Sabbath.

I’m not sure I understand your comment here of taking one sentence out of context? The Eighth day is never an added day to the seven day week, let us be clear here. Sunday is never “to be the Sabbath”. I am sorry you misunderstood my commentary, I make no reference as Sunday to being the Sabbath.

To your Christian scriptures

@ you quoting John

they came with the spices after daybreak because they were forbidden to do work on the Sabbath which was the previous day hence a Saturday.

I believe you take the gospel out of context; Luke 24:1 (is the one I used here)
1 But at daybreak on the first day of the week they took the spices they had prepared and went to the tomb. The first day of the week is never the sabbath day. If you read further in the same gospel these who bring the spices find the tomb empty “at daybreak on the first day of the week”. Jesus did not resurrect on the Seventh day, Jesus resurrected on the first day of the week Sunday.

I believe your thinking of Nicodemus and Joseph of Arimathea, who placed Jesus body in the tomb and took spices with them before the Sabbath because they were forbidden to do work on the Sabbath. You have these two events confused:blush:

@ your next quote of John

it was evening and the doors were locked so it was already Monday actually. You still want to take this quote as a proof for Sunday being the day of rest?

I never said nor do I believe that Sunday is the Sabbath day of rest, I hope I am clear here.
According to the Hebrew lunar calender a certain time of the evening introduces the next day Monday. But it is not revealed that the lunar time is yet. What the gospel does reveal is that it is still the first day not the second day when these resurection events are taking place.

John 20:1 On the first day of the week. Mary Magdala came to the tomb early in the morning…(same chapter same day) verse19** On the evening of that first day of the week, **when the doors were locked, where the disciples were…Jesus came and stood in their midst and said to them. “Peace be with you”…He showed them his hands and His side…

Scripture still has “on that evening of the first day of the week” eye witness accounts to the resurrection taking place. Had it been past the lunar time in the evening, the Jewish John writing the gospel would of indicated this evening was the second day of the week.

@ your third quote of John

hence your next quote means that “a week later” was also on a Monday…

I fail to see how you arrive at Monday? Thomas was not with them when Jesus appeared on the first day evening. The gospel does not reveal from which day to count for the week later. If we apply the Hebrew lunar time, the first day has moved into Monday because Thomas was not with them. Thomas appears much later in the evening which is now Monday according to your estimation of the lunar time. Counting a week later (7days) from early Monday (which is still in the late evening of the Sunday according to the Sun calender) we arrive at Sunday again.

I am not going to try and figure out how you came to Monday a week later

@ you quote of Luke

you’re basically saying the same thing. They had to wait until daybreak which was on a Sunday and this was when they met Jesus and when he resurrected. This is why Christians celebrate the Sunday as the Lords’ day.

Horray we got a winner:thumbsup:

Putting things randomly together won’t help. I’m just trying to get the facts straight. I agree with you that the Sunday is the Lords’ day. Let the Sabbath be Sabbath, and the Lords’ day be the Lords’ day

Amen! I hope this clears it up a little for you and you got the facts straight, thank you, your post helped clarified that Sunday is truly the Day when Jesus resurrected from the dead, and it is the day when the Apostles witnessed the resurrection and when Jesus appeared to them and it is always on this day that the apostles break bread and pray, just as they did when Jesus revealed himself to them at the first Mass in Luke 24:27-31

Peace be with you

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

Just for your FYI 504Katrin;

It is revealed from Catholic mystic theology, that the 8th day is considered the day when Jesus Christ returns in the General resurrection. Thus the 8th day is considered the resurrection day by Catholic theology both from the first century when Jesus resurrected (1) and the second coming (2) who brings the resurrrection (3)

This triple 8 revelation is the Hebrew (Gematria) number value of Jesus name.

888 = Jesus Christ

It is from this 8th day that my commentary references when God reveals himself to His people. 8 references a new beginning, such as Aaron began his priesthood, all Hebrew circumcisions were performed after the 8th day of birth, many of our Christian baptism fonts from antiquity have 8 sides to them that points to the resurrection of new life, Jesus resurrected on the first day of the week, mystically this day (Sunday) is considered the 8th day because it begins a new creation, a new revelation of God in the resurrection of Jesus, this is the day the Lord has made, which scripture reveals as the Lord’s Day, the day when God rested our humanity in the Earth on the Sabbath and raised it to life again in the 8th day to live a new beginning in communion with God.

It is on this 8th day not the sabbath day, when God reveals Himself to us in liturgy of the Mass every Sunday in the resurrected body, blood, soul and divinity of Jesus Christ. Amen

Peace be with you

 

[Patrocinor]

We can spew out bible references from sun up to sun down. The bottom line for me is:
I believe in what the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church believes and teaches since it historically goes back to it’s founder, Jesus Christ. She is guided by the Holy Spirit. I am convinced in matters of faith and morals, (the teachings) she is infallible. Sola Scriptura and private interpretation violates scripture, history and common sense. I will obey the Catholic Church. The rest of these denominations, regardless of how sincere, have caused chaos and division. And the majority of this mess started around the 16th Century.

 

[504Katrin]

My commentary never added another day to the only seven day week. Agreed there are only 7 days in a week.

Why not just say that Sunday is the first day of the week.

The Hebrew hermeneutics from counting days beginning with the first day ends on the 8th day, never reveals this day to be the Sabbath 7th day when God revealed himself which is my point. Logically if one counts from the first day from Sunday 8days later brings you back to Sunday the first day. But I agree the hermeneutics of such a subject will derail the thread.

In your second post you then got somewhat into it though, no? What happened on that day is VERY special and is not to be taken as the norm so it would be wrong to say that G-d reveals himself on Sundays. You even put “reveals” in present tense. This is all that bothers me here, and this is why I said that you take what happened on this day out of context. It’s not the norm, but a very special first time in many regards, and I won’t get into it here on an internet forum no matter what.

I’m not sure I understand your comment here of taking one sentence out of context? The Eighth day is never an added day to the seven day week, let us be clear here. Sunday is never “to be the Sabbath”. I am sorry you misunderstood my commentary, I make no reference as Sunday to being the Sabbath.

Sunday is only the day when shops are closed and work is forbidden? Sunday replaces the Shabbat for Christians. Do you agree with this?

I believe you take the gospel out of context; Luke 24:1 (is the one I used here)
1 But at daybreak on the first day of the week they took the spices they had prepared and went to the tomb. The first day of the week is never the sabbath day. If you read further in the same gospel these who bring the spices find the tomb empty “at daybreak on the first day of the week”. Jesus did not resurrect on the Seventh day, Jesus resurrected on the first day of the week Sunday.

I believe your thinking of Nicodemus and Joseph of Arimathea, who placed Jesus body in the tomb and took spices with them before the Sabbath because they were forbidden to do work on the Sabbath. You have these two events confused:blush:

No, I’m not taking the Gospel out of context, I’m not confusing anything and you don’t need to blush over it, either. I know what the Gospel says. You merely seem to get my words confused. I said that *:

“They came with the spices after daybreak because they were forbidden to do work on the Sabbath which was the previous day hence a Saturday.”*

I would never say that the first day is the Sabbath day. I said that they came on a Sunday because the day before that day was a Sabbath and so they were forbidden to do work like coming with the spices.

I never said nor do I believe that Sunday is the Sabbath day of rest, I hope I am clear here.
According to the Hebrew lunar calender a certain time of the evening introduces the next day Monday. But it is not revealed that the lunar time is yet. What the gospel does reveal is that it is still the first day not the second day when these resurection events are taking place.

And I never said anything against that first part. However, it could have already been Monday.

John 20:1 On the first day of the week. Mary Magdala came to the tomb early in the morning…(same chapter same day) verse19** On the evening of that first day of the week, **when the doors were locked, where the disciples were…Jesus came and stood in their midst and said to them. “Peace be with you”…He showed them his hands and His side…

Scripture still has “on that evening of the first day of the week” eye witness accounts to the resurrection taking place. Had it been past the lunar time in the evening, the Jewish John writing the gospel would of indicated this evening was the second day of the week.

I fail to see how you arrive at Monday? Thomas was not with them when Jesus appeared on the first day evening. The gospel does not reveal from which day to count for the week later. If we apply the Hebrew lunar time, the first day has moved into Monday because Thomas was not with them. Thomas appears much later in the evening which is now Monday according to your estimation of the lunar time. Counting a week later (7days) from early Monday (which is still in the late evening of the Sunday according to the Sun calender) we arrive at Sunday again.

I am not going to try and figure out how you came to Monday a week later

Because it was evening and the doors were already locked tells me that it was after nightfall hence already Monday. If you’re so sure that John had spoken of the second day in that case, so be it. Maybe he just wanted to keep talking about the" first day" because of its meaning.

 

[504Katrin]

Amen! I hope this clears it up a little for you and you got the facts straight, thank you, your post helped clarified that Sunday is truly the Day when Jesus resurrected from the dead, and it is the day when the Apostles witnessed the resurrection and when Jesus appeared to them and it is always on this day that the apostles break bread and pray, just as they did when Jesus revealed himself to them at the first Mass in Luke 24:27-31

Peace be with you

I have nothing against this, otherwise I wouldn’t have stated so earlier. You don’t have to take my words out of my mouth and rewrite them here. I do have my facts straight, and there’s nothing to clear up for me, but thank you, too!

However, I have something against you saying that the L-rd reveales(ed) Himself on Sundays which I have to disagree with. This was a first and very special event and not the norm. And so I say that Remnant1 is right and you’re wrong. The rest of my post was partly agreeing with what you say like Sunday beeing the first day since Jesus resurrected on that day, and explaining as to why they didn’t bring the spices earlier (as it was Sabbath) and I also said that when the doors were already locked and it was evening it might have already been Monday.

 

[504Katrin]

Just for your FYI 504Katrin;

It is revealed from Catholic mystic theology, that the 8th day is considered the day when Jesus Christ returns in the General resurrection. Thus the 8th day is considered the resurrection day by Catholic theology both from the first century when Jesus resurrected (1) and the second coming (2) who brings the resurrrection (3)

This triple 8 revelation is the Hebrew (Gematria) number value of Jesus name.

888 = Jesus Christ

It is from this 8th day that my commentary references when God reveals himself to His people. 8 references a new beginning, such as Aaron began his priesthood, all Hebrew circumcisions were performed after the 8th day of birth, many of our Christian baptism fonts from antiquity have 8 sides to them that points to the resurrection of new life, Jesus resurrected on the first day of the week, mystically this day (Sunday) is considered the 8th day because it begins a new creation, a new revelation of God in the resurrection of Jesus, this is the day the Lord has made, which scripture reveals as the Lord’s Day, the day when God rested our humanity in the Earth on the Sabbath and raised it to life again in the 8th day to live a new beginning in communion with God.

I thought you didn’t want to get into it. This is very intimate what happened back then on that day. And I’m not going to say anything about it here on the internet. I’m not going to bite.

It is on this 8th day not the sabbath day, when God reveals Himself to us in liturgy of the Mass every Sunday in the resurrected body, blood, soul and divinity of Jesus Christ. Amen

Peace be with you

Peace be with you also

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

504Katrin;10919070]Why not just say that Sunday is the first day of the week.

Ok, “Sunday is the first day of the week”. I will yeild to your post here and leave you with the last word and let our post speak for themselves. Admittedly we have communicated our views and we both at times have missed each others true disposition.

 

[504Katrin]

Ok, “Sunday is the first day of the week”. I will yeild to your post here and leave you with the last word and let our post speak for themselves. Admittedly we have communicated our views and we both at times have missed each others true disposition.

Thank you for this nice little debate and for you time.

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

504Katrin;10919075] I do have my facts straight, and there’s nothing to clear up for me, but thank you, too!

Your welcome Forgive me, I missed your post here, please allow me to respond in courteousy

However, I have something against you saying that the L-rd reveales(ed) Himself on Sundays which I have to disagree with.

Please let me more clear here so as not to misinform you. God is not only present to us on Sundays, but every day at every Mass and everywhere we offer up a sacrifice that is acceptable to the Lord in His Host which we celebrate; "From the rising of the Sun, even to it’s setting, my name is great among the nations; And everywhere they bring sacrifice to my name, and a pure offering; For great is my name among the nations, says the Lord of hosts. Malachi 1:11

This was a first and very special event and not the norm.

I agree

And so I say that Remnant1 is right and you’re wrong.

Thank you, I am humbled for being wrong for believing in my Catholic faith

The rest of my post was partly agreeing with what you say like Sunday beeing the first day since Jesus resurrected on that day,

I won’t mix words with you here;

and explaining as to why they didn’t bring the spices earlier (as it was Sabbath)

They took spices on Friday before the Sabbath, and they took spices to the tomb of Jesus on Sunday by the tomb was empty. The Jews did not violate the Sabbath for taking spices when placed Jesus in the tomb on Friday before the Sabbath began.

and I also said that when the doors were already locked and it was evening it might have already been Monday.

Your point is well taken. But scripture never indicates it was Monday only that it was still the evening of the first day of the week.

Do you know when the start of the evening of the first day of week and the end of the evening of the first day of the week? Iam confident these first century Jewish writers knew exactly when these times were. So I will base on their writings, not a guess that it was Monday when Jesus appeared to his disciples.

**The doors are locked because the disciples are in fear “for fear of the Jews” **not because it was evening

I await Remnant1’s response to any objections, let us allow Remnant to speak for himself.

Peace be with you

 

[504Katrin]

Your welcome Forgive me, I missed your post here, please allow me to respond in courteousy

Please let me more clear here so as not to misinform you. God is not only present to us on Sundays, but every day at every Mass and everywhere we offer up a sacrifice that is acceptable to the Lord in His Host which we celebrate; "From the rising of the Sun, even to it’s setting, my name is great among the nations; And everywhere they bring sacrifice to my name, and a pure offering; For great is my name among the nations, says the Lord of hosts. Malachi 1:11

I agree

Thank you, I am humbled for being wrong for believing in my Catholic faith

I won’t mix words with you here;

They took spices on Friday before the Sabbath, and they took spices to the tomb of Jesus on Sunday by the tomb was empty. The Jews did not violate the Sabbath for taking spices when placed Jesus in the tomb on Friday before the Sabbath began.

Your point is well taken. But scripture never indicates it was Monday only that it was still the evening of the first day of the week.

Do you know when the start of the evening of the first day of week and the end of the evening of the first day of the week? Iam confident these first century Jewish writers knew exactly when these times were. So I will base on their writings, not a guess that it was Monday when Jesus appeared to his disciples.

**The doors are locked because the disciples are in fear “for fear of the Jews” **not because it was evening

I await Remnant1’s response to any objections, let us allow Remnant to speak for himself.

Peace be with you

You’re now apparently talking about something new. Let me kindly clarify my initial intend. You earlier said that G-d would reveal Himself to us on Sundays and based this - amongst your Gospel citations - on the one event when Aaron and the others celebrated the inauguration, and this was what I replied to and opposed to as in your initial post you tried to prove that Sunday is the Lords’ day, and this event with Aaron’ inauguration is not the norm, it is not so that G-d has always and only revealed Himself on Sundays, and last but not least it is no proof for saying that the Sunday is the Lords’ day, and this is why I had to say that Remnant is right. You will find this proof in the Christian scriptures instead. But I don’t think it makes sense to run in circles and I feel that I’m doing this here.

I have said often I see it the same way, Sunday is the L-rds’ day, and that the only thing I opposed to was when you quoted the book of Moses in order to use it as proof for the L-rds’ day. For you Jesus, hence G-d is present at every mass and also reveals Himself there. This is not what I believe - however, I never intended to say and never said that you were wrong in your Catholic faith. This conclusion went a little too far for me. It would never come to my mind to insult or hurt or disrespect anyones’ faith and feelings, and so I will respectfully close my contributions here with this post. If you felt uncomfortable with anything I said here, I apologize to you.

Peace be with you.

FYI Ramnant can’t reply anymore, under his name it says that he was banned.

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

504Katrin;10921110]You’re now apparently talking about something new. Let me kindly clarify my initial intend. You earlier said that G-d would reveal Himself to us on Sundays and based this - amongst your Gospel citations - on the one event when Aaron and the others celebrated the inauguration, and this was what I replied to and opposed to as in your initial post you tried to prove that Sunday is the Lords’ day, and this event with Aaron’ inauguration is not the norm****,

The typology is what reveals “Aarons inauguration” is “not the norm”, fulfilled in the “resurrection of Jesus Christ” is “not the norm”, nor is “Jesus inauguration of His New eternal HIgh priesthood” which fulfills that priesthood of Aarron and the Levites.

We cannot put scripture aside from anything which God has revealed. His Word never returns void to Him. Jesus our Master has revealed all these things to His Church inorder to understand what God revealed about Him in all the scriptures.

Luke 24:44 He said to them, “These are my words that I spoke to you while I was still with you, that everything written about me in the law of Moses and in the prophets and psalms must be fulfilled”. 45 Then he opened their minds to understand the scriptures.

it is not so that G-d has always and only revealed Himself on Sundays, and last but not least it is no proof for saying that the Sunday is the Lords’ day, and this is why I had to say that Remnant is right.

No, Remnant is wrong for thinking that God does not reveal himself on Sunday it is to this you both agree. Secondly Remnant does not hold to your position of the counting of days, He was asking for proof where God reveals himself outside the Sabbath, which I provided.

One would be a fool to claim that God only reveals himself on Sunday. I never make no suggestion.** I proved that God has revealed himself on the first Day, Sunday, the resurrection day, which is 8 days counted which is never the Sabbath 7th day when God has revealed himself from Leviticus the book of Moses. **

Remnant being a christian would of understood my line of thinking through the revelations of Jesus Christ. For he claims a faith in Jesus Christ. Without this faith, it is difficult to see the fullness of God’s Word revealed through His Incarnate Word Jesus Christ who is himself the Word of God made flesh.

You will find this proof in the Christian scriptures instead. But I don’t think it makes sense to run in circles and I feel that I’m doing this here.

I don’t think we are, you are being logical in your approach, which is acceptable. Your approach of scripture is grounded reaching for a fulfillment which has the prefigurement of what is to come and to be revealed by God. My approach returns to your reaching fulfilled eternally, for my interpretation is keepping within the context of the original context, yet raises them to what their point too fulfilled. For example as I pointed out above. Aaron’s inauguration was “once” and not the norm as you state, So is Jesus resurrection a “once” event and “not the norm”, from this one event we have Jesus taking upon himself in His resurrection the eternal High Priest hood “inaugurated” upon him from His sacrifice, death and resurrection to ascend to heaven, just as the holocaust of Aarons victom ascended into heaven symbolized by smoke, but believed by the Hebrews that God has accepted Aaorons sacrifice in heaven.

Im’s sorry I don’t mean to rattle on here. But I thought revealing our approaches can help see why the Christian faith is hidden in the Old Testament scriptures. I cannot remove one letter from either. Christ has fullfilled them into one.

I have said often I see it the same way, Sunday is the L-rds’ day, and that the only thing I opposed to was when you quoted the book of Moses in order to use it as proof for the L-rds’ day. For you Jesus, hence G-d is present at every mass and also reveals Himself there. This is not what I believe - however, I never intended to say and never said that you were wrong in your Catholic faith. This conclusion went a little too far for me. It would never come to my mind to insult or hurt or disrespect anyones’ faith and feelings, and so I will respectfully close my contributions here with this post. If you felt uncomfortable with anything I said here, I apologize to you.

Peace be with you.

I was never offended by you, no apology needed, I enjoyed the exchange, and feel that much more can deduce from them. I hope we have cleared up any misunderstandings.

And also with you