The Real Presence - The Lord

[Famule]

It is so plainly spelled out in the Bible and in the writings of the Early Church Fathers which most Protestants recognize. Why do they not come home to the Church where they can receive the Real Presence of Jesus Christ just as he said in scripture? Men throughout the centuries have handed down the power to consecrate bread into the Body of Jesus Christ. Here is the church that He set it up in. Here is the place where He comes to us! The Catholic (Universal) Church! Why would you want to be anywhere else?

Luke

 

[Hisalone]

It is so plainly spelled out in the Bible and in the writings of the Early Church Fathers which most Protestants recognize. Why do they not come home to the Church where they can receive the Real Presence of Jesus Christ just as he said in scripture? Men throughout the centuries have handed down the power to consecrate bread into the Body of Jesus Christ. Here is the church that He set it up in. Here is the place where He comes to us! The Catholic (Universal) Church! Why would you want to be anywhere else?

Luke

Christs real presence is with me continually. It is spelled out so clearly in the bible that it is Christ **in us **the hope of glory. that God in all His fullness would abide with us and in us
I just dont understand why the Catholic Church doesnt teach the basic gospel message.

 

[Famule]

Christs real presence is with me continually. It is spelled out so clearly in the bible that it is Christ **in us **the hope of glory. that God in all His fullness would abide with us and in us
I just dont understand why the Catholic Church doesnt teach the basic gospel message.

If you think that the Catholic Church doesn’t teach that Christ abides in us, then you need to study Church teachings before arguing something like this. The Church teaches the Entire gospel message. Show me a passage that the Church contadicts. Have you ever read John chapter 6?

Luke

 

[R_not]

Christs real presence is with me continually. It is spelled out so clearly in the bible that it is Christ **in us **the hope of glory. that God in all His fullness would abide with us and in us
I just dont understand why the Catholic Church doesnt teach the basic gospel message.

I am a Catholic and I was going to try to explain that this is why Protestants don’t come back to the Catholic church - because they feel what they are doing is the correct thing.

I really do not have a problem with this. I do have a problem with some fundamentalists say that we pray to statues, we pray to Mary as if she were God, or that she is a ‘less than honorable’ person. Yes, I was confronted by a non-denomiational Christian telling me that she was a whore!! Well, we discussed this and at the very least I hope she is thinking for herself now on that matter!

There is a lot of weird stuff out there and I don’t know if it is to lower us to validate/raise themselves, or what?!

And Catholics do study the Bible. I go to Bible study quite often with a group. right now we are in Matthew. We chose to do it - it is an extra curricular activity. And I notice that is how the protestants do it. They don’t study the Bible on Sunday - but on some night during the week.

In Catholic school, I remember studying other’s religions. And we didn’t have such stuff as I hear from Protestants as to what they think we do - the praying to statues, etc. The less bothersome thing I have heard from them is that we are conservative in our worship. so what?! I don’t like waving my arms all over the place. I really don’t. And I like praying the rosary. If they are bothered with that, then they need to go and wonder why they are more worried about that than anything else!

Yes, I have heard them say that I should be able to pray directly to God. Well, I do! I just like praying the rosary and asking Mary to intercede (put in a good word, sort of) to Jesus for me. I also like how it makes me think of Jesus’ different parts of his life. I actually think about it - so I don’t know why they are so bothered by it all. geez, sometimes I think about what it was like to have been chosen to be God’s mother on earth?! And for a Jewess of her times when that sort of thing was a stoning offense. How Joseph took care of her. I mean we are talking of some outstanding examples of human courage here. and love. Could I have done such a thing, could I have had such courage. I don’t know since I haven’t been called to do such a task.

Oh well, I divert. To sum it up - I don’t have a problem with all the Protestants so much as they have a problem with us. Some of them, I don’t think it is all of them. I think they think they are doing what is right.

 

[Famule]

Christs real presence is with me continually. It is spelled out so clearly in the bible that it is Christ **in us **the hope of glory. that God in all His fullness would abide with us and in us
I just dont understand why the Catholic Church doesnt teach the basic gospel message.

What you also seem to fail to understand is that for 1500 years, to be Christian meant that you were either Orthodox or Catholic, 2 branches of the Church. To be Christian meant to believe in the Real Presence. There was no Christianity without that belief for 1500 years. This was a new belief started by men, as were all Protestant churches. So, to say that the Real Presence does not exist is to say that Christ’s one and only belief system on earth for 1500 years was flawed. That isn’t giving God much credit now, is it?

Luke

 

[reen12]

quote:Famule

It is so plainly spelled out in the Bible and in the writings of the Early Church Fathers which most Protestants recognize. Why do they not come home to the Church where they can receive the Real Presence of Jesus Christ just as he said in scripture? Men throughout the centuries have handed down the power to consecrate bread into the Body of Jesus Christ. Here is the church that He set it up in. Here is the place where He comes to us! The Catholic (Universal) Church! Why would you want to be anywhere else?

Possibly because, in Church history, things were done
and said that undermined one’s faith in Catholic doctrine -
none more so than the preposterous claim to infallibility -
when teaching on matters of faith and morals.

The Eastern Church couldn’t believe it, [literally]
when men - who claimed to speak for God Himself,
trespassed on Godhead - by outlining the procession of the Holy Trinity -
nearly a thousand years ago.
This “defining” required a level of arrogance that even stuns me.
The Eastern Church broke off, over this “defining” - referred to as
the *'filioque"*controversy.
[Orthodoxy has a greater respect for mystery.]

And people got sick and tired of having monies flow to Rome,
from their own nation, in 16th c. Europe.
The Dominican, Tetzel, had agents in Germany - ‘selling’ indulgences.

Was this authorized by the teaching office of the Church?
Of course it wasn’t. Yet Tetzel’s agents went about
‘selling’ indulgences, and they called out to the people:

“When the coin in the coffer rings,
Another soul from purgatory springs.”

[Martin Luther was quite correct, in seeing this as perfectly nuts.]

In our own day, consider the recent scandals.

Many other Chrisitians don’t give a hoot - about what the Church ‘defines.’
Many think that Rome, long ago, forfeited any claim to be
the “one, true Church, founded by Christ.”

RCC theology is quite beautiful, for the most part.
The question was - and remains…is it true?
Does this theology reflect the mind of God?

reen12

 

[Adam14]

…I really do not have a problem with this. I do have a problem with some fundamentalists say that we pray to statues, we pray to Mary as if she were God, or that she is a ‘less than honorable’ person. Yes, I was confronted by a non-denomiational Christian telling me that she was a whore!! Well, we discussed this and at the very least I hope she is thinking for herself now on that matter!

…There is a lot of weird stuff out there and I don’t know if it is to lower us to validate/raise themselves, or what?!
Oh well, I divert. To sum it up - I don’t have a problem with all the Protestants so much as they have a problem with us. Some of them, I don’t think it is all of them. I think they think they are doing what is right.

WOW

I’m sorry someone claiming to be a Christian made this type of absurd and offensive comment to you. Thank you for realizing that not all non-Catholics believe this!

If I were Catholic and someone said this to me, I’d certainly need to be in confession ASAP to ask forgiveness for the actions that followed!

 

[Famule]

quote:Famule

Possibly because, in Church history, things were done
and said that undermined one’s faith in Catholic doctrine -
none more so than the preposterous claim to infallibility -
when teaching on matters of faith and morals.

The Eastern Church couldn’t believe it, [literally]
when men - who claimed to speak for God Himself,
trespassed on Godhead - by outlining the procession of the Holy Trinity -
nearly a thousand years ago.
This “defining” required a level of arrogance that even stuns me.
The Eastern Church broke off, over this “defining” - referred to as
the *'filioque"*controversy.
[Orthodoxy has a greater respect for mystery.]

And people got sick and tired of having monies flow to Rome,
from their own nation, in 16th c. Europe.
The Dominican, Tetzel, had agents in Germany - ‘selling’ indulgences.

Was this authorized by the teaching office of the Church?
Of course it wasn’t. Yet Tetzel’s agents went about
‘selling’ indulgences, and they called out to the people:

“When the coin in the coffer rings,
Another soul from purgatory springs.”

[Martin Luther was quite correct, in seeing this as perfectly nuts.]

In our own day, consider the recent scandals.

Many other Chrisitians don’t give a hoot - about what the Church ‘defines.’
Many think that Rome, long ago, forfeited any claim to be
the “one, true Church, founded by Christ.”

RCC theology is quite beautiful, for the most part.
The question was - and remains…is it true?
Does this theology reflect the mind of God?

reen12

Here we have to refer back to Jesus telling Peter, what you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven and what you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Luke

 

[estesbob]

Christs real presence is with me continually. It is spelled out so clearly in the bible that it is Christ **in us **the hope of glory. that God in all His fullness would abide with us and in usI just dont understand why the Catholic Church doesnt teach the basic gospel message.

Actually the Gospel message you embrace came from the Catholic Church.

 

[Famule]

WOW

I’m sorry someone claiming to be a Christian made this type of absurd and offensive comment to you. Thank you for realizing that not all non-Catholics believe this!

If I were Catholic and someone said this to me, I’d certainly need to be in confession ASAP to ask forgiveness for the actions that followed!

Have you read John chapter 6?

 

[Adam14]

Have you read John chapter 6?

Yes…why do you ask?

 

[Famule]

Yes…why do you ask?

What does it say to you?

 

[Hisalone]

If you think that the Catholic Church doesn’t teach that Christ abides in us, then you need to study Church teachings before arguing something like this. The Church teaches the Entire gospel message. Show me a passage that the Church contadicts. Have you ever read John chapter 6?

Luke

Its an afterthought at best.
Do you genuflect when you see another Christian?
Is God who lives in a Christian real to you, do you pray to that God?
The Catholic Church teaches on the Catholic Church not that the God who lives inside a believer can be known, talked to , prayed to, can be listened to.
The Church does not teach that the Spirit of Truth would be sent to guide us to all truth. The CC teaches only certain people have that Spirit and it is not for everyone. The CC does not teach Christ in you is the hope of glory.

 

[Hisalone]

I am a Catholic and I was going to try to explain that this is why Protestants don’t come back to the Catholic church - because they feel what they are doing is the correct thing.

I really do not have a problem with this. I do have a problem with some fundamentalists say that we pray to statues, we pray to Mary as if she were God, or that she is a ‘less than honorable’ person. Yes, I was confronted by a non-denomiational Christian telling me that she was a whore!! Well, we discussed this and at the very least I hope she is thinking for herself now on that matter!

There is a lot of weird stuff out there and I don’t know if it is to lower us to validate/raise themselves, or what?!

And Catholics do study the Bible. I go to Bible study quite often with a group. right now we are in Matthew. We chose to do it - it is an extra curricular activity. And I notice that is how the protestants do it. They don’t study the Bible on Sunday - but on some night during the week.

In Catholic school, I remember studying other’s religions. And we didn’t have such stuff as I hear from Protestants as to what they think we do - the praying to statues, etc. The less bothersome thing I have heard from them is that we are conservative in our worship. so what?! I don’t like waving my arms all over the place. I really don’t. And I like praying the rosary. If they are bothered with that, then they need to go and wonder why they are more worried about that than anything else!

Yes, I have heard them say that I should be able to pray directly to God. Well, I do! I just like praying the rosary and asking Mary to intercede (put in a good word, sort of) to Jesus for me. I also like how it makes me think of Jesus’ different parts of his life. I actually think about it - so I don’t know why they are so bothered by it all. geez, sometimes I think about what it was like to have been chosen to be God’s mother on earth?! And for a Jewess of her times when that sort of thing was a stoning offense. How Joseph took care of her. I mean we are talking of some outstanding examples of human courage here. and love. Could I have done such a thing, could I have had such courage. I don’t know since I haven’t been called to do such a task.

Oh well, I divert. To sum it up - I don’t have a problem with all the Protestants so much as they have a problem with us. Some of them, I don’t think it is all of them. I think they think they are doing what is right.

Please look at the thread started by Catholics in this forum and you can see many of them have a real problem with Protestants.

 

[Adam14]

What does it say to you?

First I want to just clarify my previous comment to make sure it wasn’t taken in the wrong way…

I was commenting on R_Not’s posting referring to someone making an offensive remark(that I don’t even want to repeat) about Mary. I, in NO WAY, agree with what this person said about the Virgin Mary.

I hope my comment wasn’t taken to be offensive, because I meant it to show that I’m shocked anybody would make that claim.

Okay…for you question regarding John 6…

There’s obviously more than one topic coverd in there, but I assume you’re referring to the bread and wine, or maybe Peter being the rock?

Please let me know which one, because I don’t want to write a response to the wrong question

 

[Famule]

First I want to just clarify my previous comment to make sure it wasn’t taken in the wrong way…

I was commenting on R_Not’s posting referring to someone making an offensive remark(that I don’t even want to repeat) about Mary. I, in NO WAY, agree with what this person said about the Virgin Mary.

I hope my comment wasn’t taken to be offensive, because I meant it to show that I’m shocked anybody would make that claim.

Okay…for you question regarding John 6…

There’s obviously more than one topic coverd in there, but I assume you’re referring to the bread and wine, or maybe Peter being the rock?

Please let me know which one, because I don’t want to write a response to the wrong question

I am talking about where He speaks of us eating His flesh and drinking His blood.

 

[estesbob]

Its an afterthought at best.
Do you genuflect when you see another Christian?

No-why should I?

God who lives in a Christian real to you, do you pray to that God?

The Catholic Church teaches on the Catholic Church not that the God who lives inside a believer can be known, talked to , prayed to, can be listened to.

I guess you havent read the Cathecism:

*44Man is by nature and vocation a religious being. Coming from God, going toward God, man lives a fully human life only if he freely lives by his bond with God. *

*45 Man is made to live in communion with God in whom he finds happiness: When I am completely united to you, there will be no more sorrow or trials; entirely full of you, my life will be complete (St. Augustine, Conf. 10, 28, 39: PL 32, 795}. *

The Church does not teach that the Spirit of Truth would be sent to guide us to all truth. The CC teaches only certain people have that Spirit and it is not for everyone. The CC does not teach Christ in you is the hope of glory.

2707*There are as many and varied methods of meditation as there are spiritual masters. Christians owe it to themselves to develop the desire to meditate regularly, lest they come to resemble the three first kinds of soil in the parable of the sower. *But a method is only a guide; the important thing is to advance, with the Holy Spirit, along the one way of prayer: Christ Jesus.

***1299 **In the Roman Rite the bishop extends his hands over the whole group of the confirmands. Since the time of the apostles this gesture has signified the gift of the Spirit. The bishop invokes the outpouring of the Spirit in these words: *

All-powerful God, Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,
by water and the Holy Spirit
you freed your sons and daughters from sin
and gave them new life.
Send your Holy Spirit upon them
to be their helper and guide.
Give them the spirit of wisdom and understanding,
the spirit of right judgment and courage,
the spirit of knowledge and reverence.
Fill them with the spirit of wonder and awe in your presence.
*We ask this through Christ our Lord. *

---

 

[Adam14]

I am talking about where He speaks of us eating His flesh and drinking His blood.

Gotcha…

I can see both sides of the argument, really. And at first, I’d always thought that this was a matter of interpretation. Yes the text says, “…this is My Body…etc”. But it also says that if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off…etc. SO…I never believed that everything had to be taken literally. That was (and still is) a part of my confusion, what is taken literally and what isn’t.

Over the past several weeks, my view has began to change somewhat. I find myself questioning what I said in the previous paragraph. If Jesus only mentioned this once, that would be one thing, but He repeats it several times in John 6 that this IS His Body, this IS His Blood…Eat My Flesh…etc…

So that makes me wonder why there would be so much emphasis on it. It comes down to interpetation, which by NO MEANs do I have the knowledge nor the authority to do on my own, and KNOW that it’s right. I need help with that. Who do I go to for help(here on Earth), a pastor! But I’m non-Catholic, so which of the non-Catholic pastor’s is correct? I don’t know??? Maybe the Catholic church?..I’m beginning lean that way. And as I’ve stated in other threads, I’m considering converting to Catholism.

Sorry for the long response, although I could have easily kept going. You ask this at an interesting time in my life, as I’m sorta “in the middle” of things right now, and trying to figure out what God is telling me to do. It’s not always so easy for me to see.

 

[Famule]

Gotcha…

I can see both sides of the argument, really. And at first, I’d always thought that this was a matter of interpretation. Yes the text says, “…this is My Body…etc”. But it also says that if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off…etc. SO…I never believed that everything had to be taken literally. That was (and still is) a part of my confusion, what is taken literally and what isn’t.

Over the past several weeks, my view has began to change somewhat. I find myself questioning what I said in the previous paragraph. If Jesus only mentioned this once, that would be one thing, but He repeats it several times in John 6 that this IS His Body, this IS His Blood…Eat My Flesh…etc…

So that makes me wonder why there would be so much emphasis on it. It comes down to interpetation, which by NO MEANs do I have the knowledge nor the authority to do on my own, and KNOW that it’s right. I need help with that. Who do I go to for help(here on Earth), a pastor! But I’m non-Catholic, so which of the non-Catholic pastor’s is correct? I don’t know??? Maybe the Catholic church?..I’m beginning lean that way. And as I’ve stated in other threads, I’m considering converting to Catholism.

Sorry for the long response, although I could have easily kept going. You ask this at an interesting time in my life, as I’m sorta “in the middle” of things right now, and trying to figure out what God is telling me to do. It’s not always so easy for me to see.

I have just gained an immense amount of respect for you! I applaud your willingness to study this further. So many people just keep arguing without actually looking at it. I encourage you to keep reading on it. I will put together some things that might help and get back with you on it. I have read some very interesting things from people on the issue. Hopefully, I can help out. Thank you for your honesty!

Luke

 

[Della]

Everything the Church teaches is audacious if we think that any of the truths of the faith are merely decided by men. They are not. Jesus gave the Church his own authority to decide matters of truth–of faith and morals:

John 16:[13] When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.
[14] He will glorify me, for he will take what is mine and declare it to you.
[15] All that the Father has is mine; therefore I said that he will take what is mine and declare it to you.

This is true of the Church’s teachings about transubstantiation, or the nature of the Godhead, or anything else. It is the Holy Spirit who leads the Magisterium into all truth, not mere men.