The Reality of Evil

[Ignatius]

In our secular society “evil” is often watered down by words like “unacceptable”, “repugnant” and “antisocial” which suggest that evil is an outmoded concept. That is why I find it refreshing that a recent Isis atrocity was described by President Obama as “pure evil”. What is your view?

I think using the power and finances of the U.S. to force pro-life countries to promote the murder of innocent unborn children is even more evil than Islamic State in Syria and Iraq (ISIS), though they are evil as well.

 

[tonyrey]

Agreed. Although perhaps it’s theists who watered down the word, given that a Catholic on this thread called Obama’s policies “pure evil”, as if he compares with Stalin, ISIS and the Antichrist.

Whereas I think Obama used the word in its real sense, as given by its synonyms - unholy, vile, base, iniquitous, depraved, degenerate, villainous, sinister, vicious, demonic, diabolic and black-hearted.

To generalise about theists on the basis of a remark by one Catholic on this thread is hardly reasonable…

 

[tonyrey]

I think using the power and finances of the U.S. to force pro-life countries to promote the murder of innocent unborn children is even more evil than Islamic State in Syria and Iraq (ISIS), though they are evil as well.

All forms of murder are a violation of a fundamental human right and directly opposed to the Will of God who created us to enjoy life and choose what to believe, how to live and who to love.

 

[tonyrey]

Here is the first paragraph from the *Catholic Encyclopedia *article on Evil.

“Evil, in a large sense, may be described as the sum of the opposition, which experience shows to exist in the universe, to the desires and needs of individuals; whence arises, among human beings at least, the suffering in which life abounds. Thus evil, from the point of view of human welfare, is what ought not to exist. Nevertheless, there is no department of human life in which its presence is not felt; and the discrepancy between what is and what ought to be has always called for explanation in the account which mankind has sought to give of itself and its surroundings. For this purpose it is necessary (I) to define the precise nature of the principle that Imparts the character of evil to so great a variety of circumstances, and (2) to ascertain, as far as may be possible, the source from which it arises.”

In other words anyone who denies the reality of evil implies that life is valueless, purposeless and meaningless. It amounts to ingratitude for all the opportunities for development, enjoyment and fulfilment from the moment we are born. The “Problem of Evil” doesn’t exist in a Godless universe.

 

[inocente]

I think using the power and finances of the U.S. to force pro-life countries to promote the murder of innocent unborn children is even more evil than Islamic State in Syria and Iraq (ISIS), though they are evil as well.

Irrespective of our own views on abortion, US policy on abortion is the result of a peaceful democratic process under the rule of law, while ISIS is war mongering, despotic and oppressive. ISIS is obviously pure evil in ways the US obviously isn’t. I suggest that by failing to make that distinction, you play into the hands of fanatics. Let’s not forget that radicalized anti-abortionists have in the past nail-bombed clinics and murdered, and that right now young people are going off to fight for ISIS in the strange belief that it will overcome evil in their home country.

 

[inocente]

To generalise about theists on the basis of a remark by one Catholic on this thread is hardly reasonable…

Was there not something called The Troubles near your neck of the woods, where Catholics called Protestants evil and Protestants called Catholics evil, and they bombed each others pubs to prove their point?

Just saying that redefining evil to mean anything and everything is not confined to secularists.

 

[Blue_Horizon]

My point is that unlike many public figures Obama used the term “evil” rather than beat about the bush and “pure” indicates that there is no mitigating circumstance whatsoever. The topic is “The Reality of Evil” in our secular society and whether it is an outmoded concept. Whether it is positive or negative is really irrelevant.

When you get a consensual meaning on the word “evil” here let me know.
As for Obama - he isn’t dealing in concepts of evil, let alone outmoded ones.
My view he’s simply pushing the black and white all or nothing demonization of enemies button. Something Bush before him did wrt Saddham and those oh so black and white weapons of mass destruction he was harbouring…not.

Now look at the mess that this sort of demonization of enemies perpetuates.

 

[tonyrey]

When you get a consensual meaning on the word “evil” here let me know.
As for Obama - he isn’t dealing in concepts of evil, let alone outmoded ones.
My view he’s simply pushing the black and white all or nothing demonization of enemies button. Something Bush before him did wrt Saddham and those oh so black and white weapons of mass destruction he was harbouring…not.

Now look at the mess that this sort of demonization of enemies perpetuates.

So cold-blooded murder isn’t evil after all…

 

[Robert_Sock]

I believe the world is filled with good and evil, and that you cannot separate the two while living this life. The Bible is clear that in all things, God works for the good of those who love Him. (For God, it seems that the ends do justify the means.) Thus, evil is not something that has physical attributes, but things spiritual where God is able to take what was evil into something good!

 

[tonyrey]

I believe the world is filled with good and evil, and that you cannot separate the two while living this life. The Bible is clear that in all things, God works for the good of those who love Him. (For God, it seems that the ends do justify the means.) Thus, evil is not something that has physical attributes, but things spiritual where God is able to take what was evil into something good!

0 felix culpa, quae talem ac tantum meruit habere redemptorem

• Easter Vigil

 

[Blue_Horizon]

So cold-blooded murder isn’t evil after all…

And the US doesn’t do torture…
The enemy, as it has always been, is within - the self-righteous are not excluded.

Life is not encompassed well by a black and white syllogism.

 

[tonyrey]

And the US doesn’t do torture…
The enemy, as it has always been, is within - the self-righteous are not excluded.

Life is not encompassed well by a black and white syllogism.

I agree but torture and murder are objectively evil whoever is responsible, wherever it occurs and for whatever reason - and not merely unacceptable, repugnant or antisocial?

 

[tonyrey]

Was there not something called The Troubles near your neck of the woods, where Catholics called Protestants evil and Protestants called Catholics evil, and they bombed each others pubs to prove their point?

Just saying that redefining evil to mean anything and everything is not confined to secularists.

It still doesn’t follow that it’s theists in general who have watered down the word…

 

[Charlemagne_III]

There must be a reason why so many politicians avoid using the word. Perhaps because it has a religious connotation…

Or because so many politicians are slightly self conscious of being downright evil.

 

[inocente]

It still doesn’t follow that it’s theists in general who have watered down the word…

Agreed. There’s also the issue that various cultures have different understandings, for instance I believe Confucius doesn’t even use the concept of good and evil.

 

[tonyrey]

Agreed. There’s also the issue that various cultures have different understandings, for instance I believe Confucius doesn’t even use the concept of good and evil.

That is true but he advocated the Golden Rule in negative terms:

“Don’t do to others what you don’t want them to do to you!” His distinction between right from wrong and justice from injustice amounts to a moral view of reality. What is lacking in his philosophy is a metaphysical explanation of our existence.