The Reality of How Trans People are Treated

[aspawloski4th]

The reality is. Without me telling anyone at my job at Walmart somefound out through the net I’m transsexual and it went all down hill from there. Then a lie was made up to get me fired. After 4 months I still can’t find a job. Don’t tell me theres no discrimination!

 

[Elizabeth502]

Getting back to Zoe’s Opening Post, and the side conversation about hate crimes, I also thought until recently that it was redundant to call certain types of murders hate crimes (and others “just” murders.) However, I do think that for some highly unenlightened people who seem to believe that society will justify their activated hatred, an additional category (called an enhancement) is important. It’s important in this regard: it reverses the subconscious thinking that murders of socially ‘controversial’ people are more acceptable than murders of Average Joes. This is precisely what happened decades ago with white-on-black murder, particularly in the South.

It’s not that we’re valuing the life of certain victims more than the lives of other victims. It’s that we’re ‘valuing’ the hatred that motivates & ‘justifies’ such murders, even less than we ‘value’ murders with the specturm of standard motivations (passion, revenge, jealousy, etc.) Murderers don’t look upon personal hatred of an individual as something ‘recognized’ or ‘winked at’ by society. It’s the ‘class’ (classification) hatred that is the issue (of rationalization, of increased incentive to kill/obliterate, etc.) It is that incentive that the State is trying to reduce, & replace societal “rewards” with criminal punishments, in a quantitative way.

 

[aspawloski4th]

New York does have capital punishment. Lets hope thats on the table when prosecuting time comes. Too bad the method of execution isn’t hanging.

 

[Newbie2]

But what if it isn’t being?



What if the chances of anyone being convicted of murdering a trans person in the USA in 2009 are the same as the odds of a white man being convicted of murdering a black man in the USA in 1909?

What if in 2007 there were 65 “hate crimes” recorded in the USA against Catholics - but 1,411 against Gays, including 5 murders. None against Trans people, because “hate crimes” against them aren’t counted, even though 22 were slain.

What if the “clear up” rate for homicides in the US was 70% - but when the victim is trans, only 30%?

What if the moon is made of green cheese? “What if’s” are not especially helpful in advancing your point.

Of course those who are for this “Hate Crimes” bill have a political agenda. They want equal treatment when it comes to bias-motivated violence against them. Most want acceptance too, but that’s not something legislation will grant. Only tolerance.

I think they want better-than equal treatment. If someone kills my wife for being in the wrong place at the wrong time, why should they be punished any less than someone that has more protection under “hate crime” legislation??

And some of the ones opposing the bill also have a political agenda. They want to continue to kill with impunity.

Perhaps. But how do you come to the conclusion that we Catholics support such a notion?

I’ve heard it all before. Aiding and Abetting.



And I’m not upset. “Upset” does not begin to describe it.

I ask you to look at one thing. This forum is filled with charity, and love for one’s fellow human beings. With very few exceptions, exceptions who lack charity, and who you will find in any group, this is a good place, filled with good people.

Now look at the number of threads and posts about the evils of Homosexuality.

Now look at the number of threads and posts condemning in just as strong terms the continued murders and assaults of gay people.

Um…hate to burst you thin logic, but this is a THEOLOGICAL FORUM. There are way more threads on sinful behavior. We sort of take it for granted that murder is in no way, shape or form acceptable.

That is turning away.

Bull-oney. Go to one of those threads. Ask if anyone there condones violence against or murder of LBGTs. Show me one person thinks such behavior is acceptable.

And your post is an excellent example of denial.

Double Bull-oney. I disagree with your conclusions based on lack of evidence and overabundance of opinion. That is not denial, friend, it is disagreement. I could just as easily make the silly claim that you’re in denial that the Catholics on this forum universally condemn murder of anyone, LGBT or straight.

Start a thread asking "Does anyone on this forum accept violence against or murder of LBGTs and I dare say you’ll not get one post that answers in the affirmative.

Indeed it does. Deserve it. But does it get it? Consider how many statements are made by Church authorities about the evils of homosexuality, compared with the evils of murdering homosexuals.

Dude, the Church doesn’t consider the murder of homosexuals any less serious than the murder of anyone else. You seem not to get that fact. It’s assumed that murder of anyone is bad. Everyone seems to get that except you. Homosexuals are people. Murde of people is bad. That’s what the Church says.

Consider how many Catholic groups have specifically opposed legislation against bullying in schools, as the legislation states that you can’t bully someone just because they’re gay.

And that would be how many? Proof beyond speculation, please.

Because that could be seen as accepting the “gay lifestyle” as normal. Far better that some children should end up in the ER, and a few in the morgue, lest that happen. Aiding and Abetting.

Triple Bull-oney. Show me one single reference of that conclusion.

 

[Drawmack]

Here at CAF we’ve had several members say, and defend, that the murder of Dr. Tiller was justifiable, and not a serious crime (or even not a crime at all.) And these are members who claim to be faithful, practicing Catholics.

I am not aware of religiously motivated violence towards transsexuals, so your point is good. But one CAF member (I don’t remember her name) mentioned that her priest advised her to go and kill herself. I’d link to to that post, but unfortunately we have two active transsexual threads which are quite lengthy and the post is in one of them. Searching for it produces too many results to wade through.

In response to the poster calling for specifics: I was listening to Talk of the Nation Earlier this week. They did a story on coming out. One of the women on the show told a story of talking to her priest about it. His reaction was to tell her that she simply needed a heterosexual experience in order to overcome these tendencies. He then attempted to rape her and she was rescued by some Deacons. And, if you’ll look up I am Catholic I wouldn’t make this stuff up.

In response to this post: You know it really does not surprise me that many Christians (both Catholic and Fundamentalist) would feel this way about the murder of Tiller or other atrocities like this thread is about. If you visit many of the sites, which are supposedly Christian, that talk about these issues they use terminology that is clearly hate-speech. Every time I talk about this I’m told that I am the one who is misguided. I am told it is their right to speak this way, etc. etc. Well, there is proof that exposure to atrocities lessens the effect of future atrocities. This means that expose to hate speech desensitizes someone to hate speech, which in turn desensitizes people to hate crimes. The laze fair attitude of many Christians toward this hate speech is not turning into a laze fair attitude toward hate crimes. How far do we let this go before we realize that hate speech is where these things begin and stop the madness?

To the original poster: I will not tell you anything that you already know and have heard. I will not tell you anything that will only magnify your pain or upset you even more. What I will tell you is this. You, and your friend, are in my prayers; prayers that their soul may rest in peace and yours may find it just to be clear. I would like you permission to talk about this when I am talking against hate-speech.

 

[Zoe_Brain]

What if the moon is made of green cheese? “What if’s” are not especially helpful in advancing your point.

Sigh
FBI Hate Crimes Statistics Report 2007
Anti-Lesbian, Gay and Transgender Violence Report 2007
(pdf)
It’s not as if there’s a controversy over these figures, they’re a matter of public record.

Now that you know that - what are you going to do about it? You personally.

 

[Drawmack]

Fixing typo in original which changed the meaning of a section.

In response to the poster calling for specifics: I was listening to Talk of the Nation Earlier this week. They did a story on coming out. One of the women on the show told a story of talking to her priest about it. His reaction was to tell her that she simply needed a heterosexual experience in order to overcome these tendencies. He then attempted to rape her and she was rescued by some Deacons. And, if you’ll look up I am Catholic I wouldn’t make this stuff up.

In response to this post: You know it really does not surprise me that many Christians (both Catholic and Fundamentalist) would feel this way about the murder of Tiller or other atrocities like this thread is about. If you visit many of the sites, which are supposedly Christian, that talk about these issues they use terminology that is clearly hate-speech. Every time I talk about this I’m told that I am the one who is misguided. I am told it is their right to speak this way, etc. etc. Well, there is proof that exposure to atrocities lessens the effect of future atrocities. This means that expose to hate speech desensitizes someone to hate speech, which in turn desensitizes people to hate crimes. The laze fair attitude of many Christians toward this hate speech is now turning into a laze fair attitude toward hate crimes. How far do we let this go before we realize that hate speech is where these things begin and stop the madness?

To the original poster: I will not tell you anything that you already know and have heard. I will not tell you anything that will only magnify your pain or upset you even more. What I will tell you is this. You, and your friend, are in my prayers; prayers that their soul may rest in peace and yours may find it just to be clear. I would like you permission to talk about this when I am talking against hate-speech.

 

[Zoe_Brain]

Homosexual activity, in and of itself, is evil. Murder, no matter who is murdered, is evil. Homosexuals are not evil, nor are heterosexuals. It’s the things that one does which are evil or not evil - virtuous or unvirtuous.

Cussing is evil. Divorce is evil. Mouthing off to a parent is evil. Pre-marital sex is evil.
Slowly torturing babies to death and eating them is evil.

There are degrees though.

So tell me, what acts, what have transsexuals done, that is inherently evil? So evil as to be comparable to torture/rape/murder? No, worse, because they are condemned far more often by members of the Church, and in stronger terms, than torturers, rapists, and murderers? Even though the position of the Magisterium is at best, unclear?

For proof, just look at this forum, a place which is filled with genuine rather than faux Christians.

Aiding and Abetting. Denying. Turning away. And not realising they’re doing it. Feeling hurt that anyone could even make such a suggestion. Demanding proof of every single fact, while providing none in support of their own beliefs.Being Defensive, saying “this cannot be true” rather than asking in all honesty “can this be true?”. Understandable, that’s human nature, and yes, I should provide proof, of course I should for such terrible accusations…

But when I do, what is their answer? Silence… Turning away. Denying. Aiding and Abetting.

I say this not to condemn. It is understandable. I’m saying this to inform. To let people know the facts, the reality of how trans people are treated. From there, it’s up to them. I have my own imperfections to work on.

 

[Newbie2]

Now that you know that - what are you going to do about it? You personally.

And I ask the same of you.

I’ll tell you what I won’t do:

1. Ever accept homosexual behavior as other than sinful, per Church teaching.
2. Publically or privately support LGBT “lifestyles”.
3. Oppose “rights” of LGBT partners to make hospital visits, name each other in wills
   i.e. oppose such things as two brothers who live chastely together would be able to
   do. Note this does not include legal partnerships, “marriage”, etc.
4. Treat LGBT folks any different than anyone else.

Why, did you have something else in mind for me to do “personally”?

 

[Eucharisted]

II’m not important - any more than anyone else on the planet.

By that logic, I don’t have to care about the children who are killed - because they are not important. But here’s the real problem with your logic: By saying everyone is unimportant, you inevitably make yourself out to be important - more important than anyone else. You’re basically telling us, “No one matters, but here’s why my opinion is better than yours!” No one is going to take you seriously with that kind of logic. Like I said, get more charitable.

Oh yes, and the Catholic Church will neither change its teaching on sexuality nor change its intolerance toward sin. We Christiains fight all injustices justly. If you have a problem with what we believe, than you can ignore us. If you have a problem with how we act, than you can pray for us. You can’t change our beliefs. But you can respect our right to belief.

 

[Zoe_Brain]

Why, did you have something else in mind for me to do “personally”?

Yes. A request or two. I have no right to do more than ask.

1. Please investigate transsexuality - it’s no more a “lifestyle” than being colourblind is a “lifestyle”. You’ll find evidence for this contention in the What is the Church’s position on the Intersexed and Transsexed? and Transsexualism : why is it so despised?. threads.

I’m not asking you to agree with my contention: merely to examine the evidence and decide for yourself.

1. Differentiate between sexual orientation and gender identity.
2. The original post was about a torture/rape/murder of a teenager. A teenager who was a moderator at a suicide support line, trying to show others that there was hope. I’ll quote:

For the last five years Laura’s Playground has prevented Transgender suicides on line. The estimate of transgender suicides in our community is between 31% to 50% depending on who in the community we talk to. Few outside our Community acknowledge or believe these numbers …
Here we have 5 suicide prevention crisis rooms in chat that are all busy. Our staff both moderators and supervisors are certified in youth suicide prevention. The fact is we have actual numbers not just an estimate. In a 5 year period here this site handled 78,800 suicidal crisis’s online. They were of 3 types. Type 3 being suicide ideation, type 2 being suicide ideation with a plan and Type 1 being actual suicide attempts.

Type 3 = 46933 Type 2 = 20238 Type 1= 11629

In addition in a survey here over 50% of Transsexuals had at least one suicide attempt by their 20th birthday some as young as 7. This was also verified by chat transcripts of the crisis’s especially in the early years.

Reasons given for suicide in order:

1. Problems coming out to homophobic friends, families and co-workers. Homophobia in general including slurs.

1. Body Image Distress or disgust

1. Discrimination - Housing - Employment - Church’s

1. Victims of Hate crimes and/or violence

These numbers are actual and reflect what is really going on in the community. Many had more than 1 reason combining 1 and 2 and others. The biggest surprise was the role homophobia played in suicide ideation. If homophobia stopped tommorrow the suicide rate would be significantly reduced which means it is preventable.

There is no question that Transgender suicide rates are real. Even without these numbers we know the reality as the spectere of suicide picks us of one by one. Transgender people are no strangers to death. Instead of following the WPATH Standards of Care many die from thrombosis from unsupervised illegal hormone use. Some die from injections at “Silicone pumping parties”. All this is done to become their “True Selves”.

When the Veteran’s suicide rate went up 2% people rushed to fix the issue. When the teen suicide rates go up people are outraged and concerned. The transgender suicide rate is laughed at even by some who care for us.

Right now, the surviving certified youth suicide support councillors there have their hands full. You see, some of the ways that have been found to butcher us have been quite inventive, and many teens who are TS would rather die from a bottle of pills rather than have a very protracted, messy and degrading death over many hours or days.

Now that a moderator, a success story, one of those who has provided hope has been so callously butchered, the work has become harder. They’re trying to prevent more deaths as a consequence.

This thread is about transsexuality. Not homosexuality, or “lifestyles”. But disapproval of “the gay lifestyle” often, not always, but often, becomes transphobia, hatred and fear of anything connected in actuality or appearance with homosexuality. And that leads to claims that it is a religious duty to deny “those people” employment, and accomodation, and medical treatment. And that laws designed to prevent such persecution violate the religious freedom of Christians to persecute the Ungodly unmercifully - lest by not doing so, they would be seen as condoning sin…

I’m asking you to be as vociferous in your criticism of such a perverted form of Christianity as you so obviously are about transsexuals. Not to remain silent. That every time someone makes such a claim, that you refute it.

I’m asking you to treat the sin of homosexuality the same way you treat the sin of divorce. Or the sin of idolatry - because Hindus cannot be persecuted, and yet there has been no outcry by Catholics or other Christian groups (the Thomas More Law Centre comes to mind as a particularly egregious example) that laws preventing their persecution violate their freedom of Religious Belief. And I see no evidence of Church groups stridently calling for the right to deny divorcees the use of water fountains, or theatres, or employment, or rental accomodation, or even a refuge for the homeless simply because they are in a state of sin, openly and unshamedly persisting in being re-married after divorce.

But most of all, I’m asking you not to Aid and Abet those who “take things a little too far”. Because you are doing. Not so much by commission, I see no evidence of that, as by omission. In that regard, my own sins are worse than yours, but that’s another matter.

 

[Zoe_Brain]

By saying everyone is unimportant, you inevitably make yourself out to be important - more important than anyone else.

What I meant was that I’m certainly no more important than any other human being, What I meant was that it’s the children who are being butchered that’s the issue here, not the state of my soul. My apologies for expressing myself so poorly.

*A shamus is a guy who takes care of handyman tasks around the temple, and makes sure everything is in working order. A shamus is at the bottom of the pecking order of synagogue functionaries, and theres a joke about that:

A rabbi, to show his humility before God, cries out in the middle of a service, Oh, Lord, I am nobody!.

The cantor, not to be bested, also cries out, Oh, Lord, I am nobody!

The shamus, deeply moved, follows suit and cries, Oh, Lord, I am nobody!

The rabbi turns to the cantor and says, Now look who thinks hes nobody!*

We Christiains fight all injustices justly.

If that were true, there wouldn’t be a problem. If Christians did not fight very selectively, vigorously attacking some sins, while mumbling “well of course you shouldn’t actually kill these sinners, even though that would be understandable…” then there would be no need for me to call you out on it.

Now perhaps you could do me a favour - call me out on some of the worst of my omissions. I make no claim to be any better, you see, and if you could see things through my eyes, rather more imperfect than most of those I’m criticising. The thing is, it’s likely that my worst sins are ones I’m not aware of. That in other areas I’m as guilty (or more so) of the same things I’m criticising in others.

 

[aspawloski4th]

People still lump transexuality and anything transgender with all the homosexuality issues. I’m so sick and tired of that. Anyone who does doesn’t have a clue to what they are talking about. Inner identity and and sexual attraction are two different things. Can’t people think and learn for themselves anymore!

 

[Newbie2]

Yes. A request or two. I have no right to do more than ask.

1. Please investigate transsexuality - it’s no more a “lifestyle” than being colourblind is a “lifestyle”. You’ll find evidence for this contention in the What is the Church’s position on the Intersexed and Transsexed? and Transsexualism : why is it so despised?. threads.

I’m not asking you to agree with my contention: merely to examine the evidence and decide for yourself.

I already know the “evidence”. Transgendered people can make choices about how they express their “condition”. Colorblind people cannot. The comparison is folly.

1. Differentiate between sexual orientation and gender identity.

OK

1. The original post was about a torture/rape/murder of a teenager. A teenager who was a moderator at a suicide support line, trying to show others that there was hope. I’ll quote:

Right now, the surviving certified youth suicide support councillors there have their hands full. You see, some of the ways that have been found to butcher us have been quite inventive, and many teens who are TS would rather die from a bottle of pills rather than have a very protracted, messy and degrading death over many hours or days.

Now that a moderator, a success story, one of those who has provided hope has been so callously butchered, the work has become harder. They’re trying to prevent more deaths as a consequence.

This thread is about transsexuality. Not homosexuality, or “lifestyles”. But disapproval of “the gay lifestyle” often, not always, but often, becomes transphobia, hatred and fear of anything connected in actuality or appearance with homosexuality. And that leads to claims that it is a religious duty to deny “those people” employment, and accomodation, and medical treatment. And that laws designed to prevent such persecution violate the religious freedom of Christians to persecute the Ungodly unmercifully - lest by not doing so, they would be seen as condoning sin…

I’m asking you to be as vociferous in your criticism of such a perverted form of Christianity as you so obviously are about transsexuals. Not to remain silent. That every time someone makes such a claim, that you refute it.

I already do.

I’m asking you to treat the sin of homosexuality the same way you treat the sin of divorce. Or the sin of idolatry - because Hindus cannot be persecuted, and yet there has been no outcry by Catholics or other Christian groups (the Thomas More Law Centre comes to mind as a particularly egregious example) that laws preventing their persecution violate their freedom of Religious Belief. And I see no evidence of Church groups stridently calling for the right to deny divorcees the use of water fountains, or theatres, or employment, or rental accomodation, or even a refuge for the homeless simply because they are in a state of sin, openly and unshamedly persisting in being re-married after divorce.

I see no evidence of Catholic Church groups stridently calling for the right to deny LGBTs the use of water fountains, or theaters, or employment or rental accomodations.
As far as other Christian or “Christian” groups, you have no idea of how I’ve opposed such groups.
.

But most of all, I’m asking you not to Aid and Abet those who “take things a little too far”.

I don’t.

Because you are doing. Not so much by commission, I see no evidence of that, as by omission. In that regard, my own sins are worse than yours, but that’s another matter.

Sorry. I’m not the mouthpiece you’re looking for. I don’t consider it a sin to not speak out as fervently as you would like against such practices, especially I don’t personally run into them.

But thanks anyway.

 

[aspawloski4th]

Sorry. I’m not the mouthpiece you’re looking for. I don’t consider it a sin to not speak out as fervently as you would like against such practices, especially I don’t personally run into them.

But thanks anyway.

Evil happens when good men stand by and do nothing. You sir are doing nothing!

 

[Zoe_Brain]

I already know the “evidence”. Transgendered people can make choices about how they express their “condition”. Colorblind people cannot. The comparison is folly.

1. Since you’ve read the other threads on the subject, you know my own situation.
   What choice did I have?
2. Accepted, with grateful thanks.
3. Likewise

I see no evidence of Catholic Church groups stridently calling for the right to deny LGBTs the use of water fountains, or theaters, or employment or rental accomodations.

1. See Thomas More Legal Centre’s activities at Montgomery County, Gainesville, Hamtramck and Kalamazoo. The latter’s a good example, the Knights of Columbus and a local priest inviting 21 Imams from local mosques to preach to them about the evils of GLBTs, and to oppose legislation that would have allowed them to enter cinemas, use drinking fountains etc.

Here’s a quote from the legislation that the TMLC opposed in Montgomery County:

(1) restaurants, soda fountains, and other eating or drinking places, and all places where food is sold for consumption either on or off the premises;
(2) inns, hotels, and motels, whether serving temporary or permanent patrons;
(3) retail stores and service establishments;
(4) hospitals and clinics;
(5) motion picture, stage, and other theaters and music, concert, or meeting halls;
(6) circuses, exhibitions, skating rinks, sports arenas and fields, amusement or recreation parks, picnic grounds, fairs, bowling alleys, golf courses,
gymnasiums, shooting galleries, billiard and pool rooms, and swimming pools;
(7) public conveyances, such as automobiles, buses, taxicabs, trolleys, trains, limousines, boats, airplanes, and bicycles;
(8) utilities, such as water and sewer service, electricity, telephone, and cable television;
(9) streets, roads, sidewalks, other public rights-of-way, parking lots or garages, marinas, airports, and hangars; and
(10) places of public assembly and entertainment of every kind.

They openly and overtly campaigned for the right to prevent GLBTs from using these facilities.

Again, this is a matter of public record. They lost in Montgomery County and Gainesville, but won at Hamtramck, and Kalamazoo.

The thing is… 2 out of 4 is 2 more than I had any right to expect. My thanks for that. I wish more were like you.

 

[aspawloski4th]

1. Since you’ve read the other threads on the subject, you know my own situation.
   What choice did I have?
2. Accepted, with grateful thanks.
3. Likewise
4. See Thomas More Legal Centre’s activities at Montgomery County, Gainesville, Hamtramck and Kalamazoo. The latter’s a good example, the Knights of Columbus and a local priest inviting 21 Imams from local mosques to preach to them about the evils of GLBTs, and to oppose legislation that would have allowed them to enter cinemas, use drinking fountains etc.

Here’s a quote from the legislation that the TMLC opposed in Montgomery County:
They openly and overtly campaigned for the right to prevent GLBTs from using these facilities.

Again, this is a matter of public record. They lost in Montgomery County and Gainesville, but won at Hamtramck, and Kalamazoo.

The thing is… 2 out of 4 is 2 more than I had any right to expect. My thanks for that. I wish more were like you.

I live an hour drive from Kalamazoo, things are far from settled there.

 

[bpbasilphx]

I will say this about transsexuality/transgenerism:

If it’s confusing for other people, how much MORE confusing is it for the trans person directly?

How would people on this thread like to wake up and discover that their genitals are NOT what they know themselves to be–that what they see in the mirror is not what they experience about themselves?

That’s what a pre-op trans goes through every day.

The few trannies I’ve known have had, in my opinion, other problems that I don’t believe such radical surgery would fix. But it’s easy to play armchair psychiatrist–and THESE people are the ones who have to live with the decisions they made, not me.

 

[Newbie2]

Evil happens when good men stand by and do nothing. You sir are doing nothing!

You know nothing about what I do or do not do outside of cyberspace. Please don’t pretend to stand in judgment of my actions, and I will accord you the same courtesy.

1. Since you’ve read the other threads on the subject, you know my own situation.
   What choice did I have?
2. Accepted, with grateful thanks.
3. Likewise
4. See Thomas More Legal Centre’s activities at Montgomery County, Gainesville, Hamtramck and Kalamazoo. The latter’s a good example, the Knights of Columbus and a local priest inviting 21 Imams from local mosques to preach to them about the evils of GLBTs, and to oppose legislation that would have allowed them to enter cinemas, use drinking fountains etc.

Here’s a quote from the legislation that the TMLC opposed in Montgomery County:
They openly and overtly campaigned for the right to prevent GLBTs from using these facilities.

Again, this is a matter of public record. They lost in Montgomery County and Gainesville, but won at Hamtramck, and Kalamazoo.

The thing is… 2 out of 4 is 2 more than I had any right to expect. My thanks for that. I wish more were like you.

Thanks. Check your PM.

 

[melissa1980]

Whether responding to the original post or to the related and heated debate on hate crime legislation now pending, a fundamental thread to the discussion is the imperative whether people may be left to themselves unaccosted and allowed to exist regardless of their race, ethnicity, religion, national origin, gender, sexual orientation, gender identity or disability. Disgustingly so, there are crimes visited upon members of any of the classes of individuals listed in this post merely because such individuals exist. Threads are woven elsewhere on CAF detailing fears of harm through persecution befalling the Church and members of the Church merely due to their existence. We have all borne witness to the crimes visited upon members of the female sex merely because they are female, not to mention the glass ceiling limitations upon such individuals to attain success through their God given means to pursue an endeavor.

Herein we discuss the Reality of How Transsexed and Intersexed People are treated, thumbing through post after post noting the difficulties faced by we who are touched with the biologic formulae resulting in one who is a mosaic of both male and female. Unfortunately there will remain the folk who strive to prevail on archaic psychological tenets that a life style has been chosen, and a sinful lifestyle no less. Time and again information has been cited with fervor and accuracy by Zoe regarding the medical leaps made to further understand our etiology. Whether the information is digested and truly understood, providing a foundation of regard which might lead to respect remains to be seen and perhaps not in the life of this generation. Regardless, the attribution of causation of crime to the underlying calling of hate of a targeted status, not a target individual, but a targeted status should cry out for the masses to respond with a resounding affirmative that society is much the worse when status based crimes are not deterred by the action of society to appropriately punish such crimes which reach far beyond individual victims with their effect.

I was reared in the mid south region of the U.S. where during the 1950s and 1960s my extended family not only condoned but expected outpourings of hate toward people whose race was different than mine. Through child’s eyes and ears I witnessed time and again curses poured upon people I felt were deserving of better from us. Imagine as a child witnessing an uncle discuss in delight squeezing a bon bon so as to get to through the despicable dark outside to the favored white cream filling and doing so to make a race based statement. Through such vitriolic outpourings I found myself driven to combat the wrongs, to make the path better, to strive to improve. I suppose this is what drove me into law, for I wanted to help others.

Not far from my home the recent case of People v. Andrade was decided, resulting in the conviction of Allen Andrade for the horrific hate based crime of murder he committed against the girlfriend known to him to be transsexed. Andrade crushed Angie Zapata’s skull with a fire extinguisher as she slept. She put up no defense in the beating. He was enraged. By his words he said “it’s not like I killed a law abiding straight citizen.” Further, he said “Gay things must die.” Among the admissions Andrade is reputed to have made he said he killed it. Killed IT. In his mind, like unto the mind of other killers who have lurked in the shadows of this world, he reduced his victim from humanity to an IT. According to Andrade she deserved to die merely because she existed. Merely because she existed…. an it, outside the accepted norm of the perpetrator.

A nationwide faith based organization south of my home has seen fit to vocalize in strident rancor that there is no epidemic of hate crimes against people who are transsexed and that the effort to secure passage of federal hate crime legislation is merely a cause célèbre to advance the homosexual agenda, citing fears of irreparable harm upon family structure. Many posters on this and similar threads have striven to clarify homosexuality bears no relationship to the intersexed and transsexed.

Were I to attempt a paraphrase of Elizabeth502, I would suggest we work to devalue the crime based upon hate providing sufficient deterrent in an effort to dissuade one from committing the crime as we might also endeavor to value all individuals regardless of their status.