The reason satan had to carry out the crucifixion

[CatholicKnight3]

This has been a stumbling block and a source of doubts for me for a while. It seemed like a contradiction when satan spoke through Peter when he wanted Jesus to avoid being crucified, and then entered Judas in order to betray Him to be crucified.

The notion that satan had no clue is a bit absurd. First of all Jesus made it public that he was going to be slain. Jesus predicted several times that he was going to be crucified, and would rise again several times. Certainly, by making it public, the devil would have known the purpose of the crucifixion. The devil is a lot of things. Dumb is not one of them.

So, why would the devil need to carry out the crucifixion even though he was aware of what it would mean?

The answer is in the gospel. When Christ says to the pharisees that any kingdom divided against itself cannot stand. There it is. The devil had to carry out the crucifixion cause that is the ultimate sin. Meaning in order for the kingdom of the devil to remain, he would need to carry out the crucifixion. Cause that is what ALL sin essentially does. Thefore, the devil had only ONE chance for the crucifixion to not happen and that was to tempt Christ to willfully turn His back on the Father’s will.

Which was why the satan constantly tempted Christ to come down from the cross. He was mocking Him through the thief. He was tempting Him through the pharisees. They were yelling at Him and tempting Him to come down.

That was the only chance satan had, and that is why he needed to carry out the crucifixion. Cause it is based on the fact that it is the ultimate sin, and if it was not carried out, then the kingdom of the devil would not stand.

 

[R_C]

Who are we to understand the intellect of a pure spirit?

Satan first wanted to reveal that Christ was the Messiah through the possessed, which for mysterious reasons was against God’s will at that moment. That does not meant that God did not want Christ to be acknowledged as the Messiah. Later he wanted Christ to desist from the Passion, perhaps grasping that it may carry major consequences against him (though I doubt he had a clue of what it would actually mean). In the end he wanted Christ to be killed, and as we read one of the parables we realize that perhaps he thought that by killing the Son the inheritance would become all his own.

 

[CatholicKnight3]

Who are we to understand the intellect of a pure spirit?

Satan first wanted to reveal that Christ was the Messiah through the possessed, which for mysterious reasons was against God’s will at that moment. That does not meant that God did not want Christ to be acknowledged as the Messiah. Later he wanted Christ to desist from the Passion, perhaps grasping that it may carry major consequences against him (though I doubt he had a clue of what it would actually mean). In the end he wanted Christ to be killed, and as we read one of the parables we realize that perhaps he thought that by killing the Son the inheritance would become all his own.

If in the end satan wanted Christ to be killed (in a sacrificial manner), then he would not have been tempting Him to come down from the cross. The devil was well aware of the sacrifice and its purpose.

The reason satan would have to carry out the crucifixion is because all sin is based on the crucifxion. Meaning, if satan had refused to carry it out, then his kingdom would not stand.

In other words, God had satan north of the Rock and south of the hard place. The devil was caught in a paradox. Philosophically, metaphysically, and other wise. The only chance satan had to stop the crucifixion was to tempt Christ to willfully turn his back on it. Hence the temptations to come down from the cross. Hence, the temptations in the desert.

So, the devil had to carry out the crucifxion in order for his kingdom to stand, or else his kingdom would be divided and would not stand. The devil does know he is defeated.

 

[spotschmoop]

I appreciate your insights to this. I might put it in a nutshell like this: Satan’s sin was because he wanted to serve himself, rather than God. It likely just boils down to hubris. While Satan may know (and thus not be “dumb”), his own desires over God’s prevent him from accepting the Truth. Sadly, just like many people.

 

[Tarpeian_Rock]

I don’t understand any of this line of reasoning. To say that Satan “had to carry out the crucifixion” would seem to let mankind off the hook. Jesus died for our sins, not Satan’s. We crucified Christ, Satan didn’t. We stood in that crowd and yelled for Barabbas, and we still do today.

 

[Deana83]

In other words, God had satan north of the Rock and south of the hard place. The devil was caught in a paradox. Philosophically, metaphysically, and other wise. The only chance satan had to stop the crucifixion was to tempt Christ to willfully turn his back on it. Hence the temptations to come down from the cross. Hence, the temptations in the desert.

So, the devil had to carry out the crucifxion in order for his kingdom to stand, or else his kingdom would be divided and would not stand. The devil does know he is defeated.

Thanks for the explanation. I’ve read this in the Bible before but never really grasped the meaning. I was also wondering since Judas was used for a divine purpose- was his betrayal of Jesus a mortal sin? Did he act in free will?

 

[mangy_dog]

This has been a stumbling block and a source of doubts for me for a while. It seemed like a contradiction when satan spoke through Peter when he wanted Jesus to avoid being crucified, and then entered Judas in order to betray Him to be crucified.

The notion that satan had no clue is a bit absurd. First of all Jesus made it public that he was going to be slain. Jesus predicted several times that he was going to be crucified, and would rise again several times. Certainly, by making it public, the devil would have known the purpose of the crucifixion. The devil is a lot of things. Dumb is not one of them.

So, why would the devil need to carry out the crucifixion even though he was aware of what it would mean?

The answer is in the gospel. When Christ says to the pharisees that any kingdom divided against itself cannot stand. There it is. The devil had to carry out the crucifixion cause that is the ultimate sin. Meaning in order for the kingdom of the devil to remain, he would need to carry out the crucifixion. Cause that is what ALL sin essentially does. Thefore, the devil had only ONE chance for the crucifixion to not happen and that was to tempt Christ to willfully turn His back on the Father’s will.

Which was why the satan constantly tempted Christ to come down from the cross. He was mocking Him through the thief. He was tempting Him through the pharisees. They were yelling at Him and tempting Him to come down.

That was the only chance satan had, and that is why he needed to carry out the crucifixion. Cause it is based on the fact that it is the ultimate sin, and if it was not carried out, then the kingdom of the devil would not stand.

The notion that Lucifer is dumb is absurd.

However, what Lucifer did not realize was the full salvific spectrum of the Crucifixion and it’s timeless effect on all humanity before, during and after.

Lucifer is not concerned with his definitive triumph-he knows he is doomed. He is more concerned with all the damage he can do and all the souls he can influence before his time is up.

He only realized the power of Christ’s Crucifixion afterwards. Surely he suspected that “there was a plan amiss” but could not grasp the fullness of this plan. Who knows the thoughts of God except him who is in union with the will of God.? Surely not Satan.

He can’t even know what you are thinking-especially if you have a life of prayer and a life of the spirit, nurtured by the Sacraments of Confession and Communion and pray the Rosary everyday. He can only guesstimate. And he’s an expert guesstimator.

 

[Love4All]

The notion that Lucifer is dumb is absurd.

However, what Lucifer did not realize was the full salvific spectrum of the Crucifixion and it’s timeless effect on all humanity before, during and after.

Lucifer is not concerned with his definitive triumph-he knows he is doomed. He is more concerned with all the damage he can do and all the souls he can influence before his time is up.

He only realized the power of Christ’s Crucifixion afterwards. Surely he suspected that “there was a plan amiss” but could not grasp the fullness of this plan. Who knows the thoughts of God except him who is in union with the will of God.? Surely not Satan.

He can’t even know what you are thinking-especially if you have a life of prayer and a life of the spirit, nurtured by the Sacraments of Confession and Communion and pray the Rosary everyday. He can only guesstimate. And he’s an expert guesstimator.

He can know the thoughts that he himself introduced in you, and it is only with difficulty that you might discern the difference. Saint Ignatius gave the rules for the discernment of spirits to help us. Essentially, Satan has no power over you except through your attachment to sin. But, “all have sinned, and do need the glory of God.”

Saint Peter had an attachment to his own human understanding, which included Jesus as Master and King but not as Priest and Sacrifice. Satan took advantage of this and tempted Saint Peter into contradicting Jesus’s words, that He would be crucified and die. Judas had a much deeper attachment to self-will first of all (the root of ALL sin) and to money. Satan tempted Judas into carrying out his decision to betray Jesus for twelve pieces of silver.

The Prayer to Saint Michael is extremely valuable, and the Rosary is the Queen of all devotions, and is the prayer that Satan fears most, after the Mass, because it is his total defeat. So pray the Rosary!!!

 

[Love4All]

[The crucifixion] is based on the fact that it is the ultimate sin, and if it was not carried out, then the kingdom of the devil would not stand.

So, the devil had to carry out the crucifxion in order for his kingdom to stand, or else his kingdom would be divided and would not stand. The devil does know he is defeated.

Jesus said a kingdom divided against itself will not stand, in response to the Pharisees and Scribes accusing Him of casing out demons by the power of Beelzebub. He pointed out that even if that were true, then it would indicate that Satan had dissension in his ranks and his kingdom was done for; and if not true, the the Kingdom of God is at hand.

The devil did not will the Crucifixion “in order for his kingdom to stand.” He is in fact, as you pointed out, defeated. He did not will the Crucifixion as part of some elaborate plan to preserve his own power. Rather, he willed it, as an act of hate, against the Son of God. He tempted Judas into a sin of pride and greed and envy, with glee because Judas was sinning. If you are looking for a motive in Satan, look no further than hate. It is all he is.

 

[mangy_dog]

He can know the thoughts that he himself introduced in you, and it is only with difficulty that you might discern the difference. Saint Ignatius gave the rules for the discernment of spirits to help us. Essentially, Satan has no power over you except through your attachment to sin. But, “all have sinned, and do need the glory of God.”

Saint Peter had an attachment to his own human understanding, which included Jesus as Master and King but not as Priest and Sacrifice. Satan took advantage of this and tempted Saint Peter into contradicting Jesus’s words, that He would be crucified and die. Judas had a much deeper attachment to self-will first of all (the root of ALL sin) and to money. Satan tempted Judas into carrying out his decision to betray Jesus for twelve pieces of silver.

The Prayer to Saint Michael is extremely valuable, and the Rosary is the Queen of all devotions, and is the prayer that Satan fears most, after the Mass, because it is his total defeat. So pray the Rosary!!!

I can’t tell if you are arguing against or in favor of what I posted…so…thanks??

 

[CatholicKnight3]

The notion that Lucifer is dumb is absurd.

However, what Lucifer did not realize was the full salvific spectrum of the Crucifixion and it’s timeless effect on all humanity before, during and after.

Lucifer is not concerned with his definitive triumph-he knows he is doomed. He is more concerned with all the damage he can do and all the souls he can influence before his time is up.

He only realized the power of Christ’s Crucifixion afterwards. Surely he suspected that “there was a plan amiss” but could not grasp the fullness of this plan. Who knows the thoughts of God except him who is in union with the will of God.? Surely not Satan.

He can’t even know what you are thinking-especially if you have a life of prayer and a life of the spirit, nurtured by the Sacraments of Confession and Communion and pray the Rosary everyday. He can only guesstimate. And he’s an expert guesstimator.

There was a reason why satan tempted Christ through peter that he must not allow the crucifixion to happen.There was a reason satan kept on tempting Christ to come down from the cross. In order to destroy Gods plan of salvation he had to get Jesus to turn from the Father’s will.

In order the kingdom of the devil to remain however, he had to carry out the crucifxion.

So, it was a paradox that the devil was well aware of. Again, the wisdom of lucifer or satan is far greater than any biblical scholar here, since he has access and knowledge of the metaphysical realities.

If the devil did NOT know the plan as you said, he would not have been tempting Jesus to turn away from His mission. Which was the only chance he had to have his kingdom remain AND destroy the plan of salvation.That is exactly what the devil was doing all through out the gospel readings.

When Jesus made it clear that satan cannot cast out satan, and a house divided against itself cannot stand, it revealed the nature of satan is carried out with the crucifxion.

Our sins crucify Christ.

which is why when ever I hear a protestant say we must have a “personal relationship” with Christ I always ask them one question. Based on their answer, we would know if they truly know Christ on a personal level or not.

The question:

Who crucified Christ?

If we as believers do not say “I did” then we do not have a grasp on what was done on calvary. It is this painful truth that brings us to our knees. When we see our sin the way God does. That is when it becomes personal. The sword of truth is piercing, and not always comfortable. Our comfort has nothing to do with our salvation. At all.

Again, if we blame the jews or Romans for the crucifixion, then we really do not understand our role and what the crucifixion was all about.

The devil, I can assure you, knew full well what it was all about.

 

[CatholicKnight3]

The notion that Lucifer is dumb is absurd.

However, what Lucifer did not realize was the full salvific spectrum of the Crucifixion and it’s timeless effect on all humanity before, during and after.

Lucifer is not concerned with his definitive triumph-he knows he is doomed. He is more concerned with all the damage he can do and all the souls he can influence before his time is up.

He only realized the power of Christ’s Crucifixion afterwards. Surely he suspected that “there was a plan amiss” but could not grasp the fullness of this plan. Who knows the thoughts of God except him who is in union with the will of God.? Surely not Satan.

He can’t even know what you are thinking-especially if you have a life of prayer and a life of the spirit, nurtured by the Sacraments of Confession and Communion and pray the Rosary everyday. He can only guesstimate. And he’s an expert guesstimator.

Jesus said a kingdom divided against itself will not stand, in response to the Pharisees and Scribes accusing Him of casing out demons by the power of Beelzebub. He pointed out that even if that were true, then it would indicate that Satan had dissension in his ranks and his kingdom was done for; and if not true, the the Kingdom of God is at hand.

The devil did not will the Crucifixion “in order for his kingdom to stand.” He is in fact, as you pointed out, defeated. He did not will the Crucifixion as part of some elaborate plan to preserve his own power. Rather, he willed it, as an act of hate, against the Son of God. He tempted Judas into a sin of pride and greed and envy, with glee because Judas was sinning. If you are looking for a motive in Satan, look no further than hate. It is all he is.

No, the devil did not will it. The Father willed it. The devil in order to keep his kingdom needed to cary it out. The only way he was going to stop it, was if Jesus turned away from the will of the Father.

The devil had to carry out the crucifixion, and the devil knew the plan. He was caught in a paradox of the metaphysical world, and Gods plan of salvation for the physical world.

Either way he was defeated…UNLESS he could get Jesus to turn from the Fathers will, whichis what he tried to do, even through the bad thief and the pharisees who were calling out to him to come down from the cross.

Upon Jesus’s death, the victory became complete over the power of death satan had over the world.

 

[CatholicKnight3]

In other words, God had satan north of the Rock and south of the hard place. The devil was caught in a paradox. Philosophically, metaphysically, and other wise. The only chance satan had to stop the crucifixion was to tempt Christ to willfully turn his back on it. Hence the temptations to come down from the cross. Hence, the temptations in the desert.

So, the devil had to carry out the crucifxion in order for his kingdom to stand, or else his kingdom would be divided and would not stand. The devil does know he is defeated.

Thanks for the explanation. I’ve read this in the Bible before but never really grasped the meaning. I was also wondering since Judas was used for a divine purpose- was his betrayal of Jesus a mortal sin? Did he act in free will?

Yes. The sin of Judas was mortal. He was already under the spell of satan, long before the betrayal. Jesus even referred to him as a devil.

From what I have been taught and understand, the true unforgiveable sin of Judas was turning away from Christs mercy.

Now, was there a reason that his heart was closed to it? Mysteries that we will probably never really know.

I mean one thief’s heart was open to confess his sins, and the other’s was not.

We do not know why.

 

[R_C]

If in the end satan wanted Christ to be killed (in a sacrificial manner), then he would not have been tempting Him to come down from the cross.

I do not think Satan had something specific in mind, such as wanting Christ to be killed. It seems far more reasonable that he simply wanted to interfere with the work of Christ, not knowing the mind of God (since only the Holy Spirit can read God’s thoughts and reveal them, which is why Christ, in granting us the Holy Spirit, told us that we were no longer servants but friends, given that servants don’t know what their master is doing). Seeing Christ willingly crucified on the cross, Satan must have grasped that this was somehow, mysteriously according to His will and a fulfillment of Scripture, so he tried in vain to tempt him to come down from the Cross (assuming that such was Satan’s work and not simply the work of incredulity of those men…we can’t see diabolical activity in every evil done by men).

The devil was well aware of the sacrifice and its purpose.

That we simply don’t know, right?

The reason satan would have to carry out the crucifixion is because all sin is based on the crucifxion. Meaning, if satan had refused to carry it out, then his kingdom would not stand.

I do not understand the meaning of this: “all sin is based on the crucifixion”. And I also don’t understand this: “satan would have to carry out the crucifixion” (since it is my understanding that none of the Passion can be attributed to Satan or the fallen angels, but purely and solely to man).

When Jesus made it clear that satan cannot cast out satan, and a house divided against itself cannot stand, it revealed the nature of satan is carried out with the crucifxion.

What do you mean by “the nature of Satan is carried out with the crucifixion”?

The devil does know he is defeated.

I disagree. The Evil One does not know that he is defeated, and he believes in the end he will triumph. We see it clearly in Revelation: he battles God, and is cast down from heaven; he battles the Son of the Woman king of the everlasting kingdom, but He is caught up to the throne of God; he battles the Woman, but she is given wings and lifted to a safe place; now he battles the offspring of the Woman, “those who keep God’s commands and hold fast their testimony about Jesus”.

The Evil One - meaning the unity of Satan and all the fallen angels - knows that he has been judged and condemned. But he has not been defeated inasmuch as he still prowls like a lion seeking the ruin of souls.

 

[Bounds]

I do not at all understand the connection being made to Satan and the Crucifixion. I see no role for Satan in this matter, and I reject that Satan “carried out” the Crucifixion. The Crucifixion is the reason Jesus became Flesh, so that he would die and bear the burden of our sins.

Jesus was very well aware of the nature of the Crucifixion, its purpose, and its design. Jesus makes several references to his death and it is referenced in prophecies of the Old Testament. Surely an event predicted in Holy Scripture, spoken of by the Living Jesus, and one that is a cornerstone of our faith is God’s Will and none other.

 

[CatholicKnight3]

I do not at all understand the connection being made to Satan and the Crucifixion. I see no role for Satan in this matter, and I reject that Satan “carried out” the Crucifixion. The Crucifixion is the reason Jesus became Flesh, so that he would die and bear the burden of our sins.

Jesus was very well aware of the nature of the Crucifixion, its purpose, and its design. Jesus makes several references to his death and it is referenced in prophecies of the Old Testament. Surely an event predicted in Holy Scripture, spoken of by the Living Jesus, and one that is a cornerstone of our faith is God’s Will and none other.

satan entered the heart of Judas to go and betray Christ.

The devil spoke through Peter, when Peter said (after Jesus’s first prediction of His passion) and said we cannot allow this to happen.

The devil was allowed to go tempt Christ in the desert.

The devil spoke through countless pharisees and they accused Christ over and over again.

You do not think the crucifixion of an innocent Christ was sin?

You do not see that role of the devil in this?!?!?!?!?!

What have you been taught?!

 

[Bounds]

satan entered the heart of Judas to go and betray Christ.

The devil spoke through Peter, when Peter said (after Jesus’s first prediction of His passion) and said we cannot allow this to happen.

The devil was allowed to go tempt Christ in the desert.

The devil spoke through countless pharisees and they accused Christ over and over again.

You do not think the crucifixion of an innocent Christ was sin?

You do not see that role of the devil in this?!?!?!?!?!

What have you been taught?!

I’ll begin with the last first. What I have been taught is that Jesus died with full knowledge of his impending death and met it willingly to fulfill His purpose. Jesus had foreknowledge of the event and most certainly could have saved himself by fleeing. If you believe that Jesus is the Son of God and one in being with the Trinity then you also believe that Jesus certainly had the power to save himself. But he did not:

Mark 15:29-32
29 Those who passed by derided[f] him, shaking their heads and saying, “Aha! You who would destroy the temple and build it in three days, 30 save yourself, and come down from the cross!” 31 In the same way the chief priests, along with the scribes, were also mocking him among themselves and saying, “He saved others; he cannot save himself. 32 Let the Messiah,[g] the King of Israel, come down from the cross now, so that we may see and believe.” Those who were crucified with him also taunted him.

Why did Jesus not save himself indeed? Perhaps he did not do so because it is the Will of God that Jesus die on behalf of us.

You are correct in that Scripture references Satan and his role in Judas’s betrayal. But read this carefully:

John 13:1-4

13Now before the festival of the Passover, Jesus knew that his hour had come to depart from this world and go to the Father. Having loved his own who were in the world, he loved them to the end. 2 The devil had already put it into the heart of Judas son of Simon Iscariot to betray him. And during supper 3 Jesus, knowing that the Father had given all things into his hands, and that he had come from God and was going to God, 4 got up from the table,[a] took off his outer robe, and tied a towel around himself.

Yes this passage refers to Satan influencing Judas, but it also clearly demonstrates the foreknowledge Jesus possessed of his death.

"The devil spoke through Peter, when Peter said (after Jesus’s first prediction of His passion) and said we cannot allow this to happen.

The devil was allowed to go tempt Christ in the desert.

The devil spoke through countless pharisees and they accused Christ over and over again."

You are correct in all of the above, but I still reject that Satan is the architect of the Crucifixion. Holy God is the designer of the Crucifixion and entered this world to fulfill that purpose. How could Satan implement the most perfect demonstration of God’s Love that saves us so?

This point you make, “You do not think the crucifixion of an innocent Christ was sin?”
I say to you that the sin was already committed long before Jesus died. That sin is still being committed today. WE are the sinners who put Jesus on the cross. But Jesus did so willingly, as a parent may sacrifice themselves for their child. The death of Jesus was and is the greatest demonstration of love ever conceived. I say again that the Crucifixion is the work and plan of Almighty God, not Satan.

 

[CatholicKnight3]

I’ll begin with the last first. What I have been taught is that Jesus died with full knowledge of his impending death and met it willingly to fulfill His purpose. Jesus had foreknowledge of the event and most certainly could have saved himself by fleeing. If you believe that Jesus is the Son of God and one in being with the Trinity then you also believe that Jesus certainly had the power to save himself. But he did not:

Mark 15:29-32
29 Those who passed by derided[f] him, shaking their heads and saying, “Aha! You who would destroy the temple and build it in three days, 30 save yourself, and come down from the cross!” 31 In the same way the chief priests, along with the scribes, were also mocking him among themselves and saying, “He saved others; he cannot save himself. 32 Let the Messiah,[g] the King of Israel, come down from the cross now, so that we may see and believe.” Those who were crucified with him also taunted him.

Why did Jesus not save himself indeed? Perhaps he did not do so because it is the Will of God that Jesus die on behalf of us.

You are correct in that Scripture references Satan and his role in Judas’s betrayal. But read this carefully:

John 13:1-4

13Now before the festival of the Passover, Jesus knew that his hour had come to depart from this world and go to the Father. Having loved his own who were in the world, he loved them to the end. 2 The devil had already put it into the heart of Judas son of Simon Iscariot to betray him. And during supper 3 Jesus, knowing that the Father had given all things into his hands, and that he had come from God and was going to God, 4 got up from the table,[a] took off his outer robe, and tied a towel around himself.

Yes this passage refers to Satan influencing Judas, but it also clearly demonstrates the foreknowledge Jesus possessed of his death.

"The devil spoke through Peter, when Peter said (after Jesus’s first prediction of His passion) and said we cannot allow this to happen.

The devil was allowed to go tempt Christ in the desert.

The devil spoke through countless pharisees and they accused Christ over and over again."

You are correct in all of the above, but I still reject that Satan is the architect of the Crucifixion. Holy God is the designer of the Crucifixion and entered this world to fulfill that purpose. How could Satan implement the most perfect demonstration of God’s Love that saves us so?

This point you make, “You do not think the crucifixion of an innocent Christ was sin?”
I say to you that the sin was already committed long before Jesus died. That sin is still being committed today. WE are the sinners who put Jesus on the cross. But Jesus did so willingly, as a parent may sacrifice themselves for their child. The death of Jesus was and is the greatest demonstration of love ever conceived. I say again that the Crucifixion is the work and plan of Almighty God, not Satan.

Well, the crucifixion is the ULITMATE SIN. Though it is called GOOD FRIDAY, the crucifxion was the ultimate SIN.

This is what WE ALL DO TO CHRIST when we SIN.

The devil knew the plan, just by the evidence that according to the gospels he was trying to tempt the Lord to turn from the WILL OF HIS FATHER.

However, the crucifixion itself is the epitome of evil Hence the reason why the devil understood that all sin is about the ultimate rejection of God. Again, the devil speaks through, and possesses and through those under the spell of satan carries out his bidding. Remember he is the ruler of this world.

Those who are believers are no longer OF THIS WORLD.

There is a seeming contradiction when the same devil that spoke through Peter to try and prevent the crufixion would then enter into Judas in order to betray Christ to lead Him to be crucified.

Do you see that? The same satan, that spoke through Peter, entered Judas. Peter tried to prevent him from being crucified (by tempting Jesus to turn away from it) and Judas turned Him over to His accusers.

For a while now I have had a hard time with this contradiction. It was not enough for me to just think that lucifer was some fool who had no idea what was going on. Why? Cause of the shouts from the pharisees, tempting him to come down from the cross. The fact that satan constantly tried to tempt Him to turn away.

Then it hit me, cause I was thinking in terms of man. When I read how the devil cannot cast out the devil. When Jesus spoke those words, it occurred to me that the devil really had no choice but to go through with the betrayal and yes, the crucifxion of Christ. Again the will of the Father.

Then it begins to make sense of what he was attempting to do. The only way he could stop it and keep his kingdom (which is built on the basis of the rejection of God) he had to TEMPT Christ to turn away from the WILL OF THE FATHER.

OK, I think the confusion lies in the Jews and Romans who did the actual act. Well, we can all assume they were under the spell of satan. No, satan did not committ the sin, but those under his spell did. Those under his spell were going to carry it out, cause if they did not, then that means satan would have to cast out his demons from them.

satan cannot cast out satan. Therefore the only option he had (since Christ was not under his spell) was to tempt him to turn away from the will of the Father. Do you have a better understanding. It is difficult. I know.

 

[Bounds]

Are we possessed of Satan every time we commit sin? If we are, does that not free us from the guilt of our sin? Or do we sin of our own volition, a free choice to rebel, because we are fallen short of the glory of God?

No man escapes sin. Did men sin in the moments leading up to and during the Crucifixion? Certainly. To kill Jesus Christ IS a sin. We killed him before we were even born, with the sins we commit today.

Although Jesus ascended the cross he did not do so because of sin, rather he did so in SPITE of sin. Jesus conquered death that day, and because of that we have the hope of Eternal Salvation. How then could Satan be the designer of that moment? The transformative power of Jesus is evident in the manner in which he died. Jesus transformed the cross from something representing one of the worst tortures ever devised in to a symbol of faith and love for his followers. Further demonstration that the death of Christ was planned by Him. Jesus knew full well how he would die, and was not subject to Satan’s plan.

 

[CatholicKnight3]

Are we possessed of Satan every time we commit sin? If we are, does that not free us from the guilt of our sin? Or do we sin of our own volition, a free choice to rebel, because we are fallen short of the glory of God?

No man escapes sin. Did men sin in the moments leading up to and during the Crucifixion? Certainly. To kill Jesus Christ IS a sin. We killed him before we were even born, with the sins we commit today.

Although Jesus ascended the cross he did not do so because of sin, rather he did so in SPITE of sin. Jesus conquered death that day, and because of that we have the hope of Eternal Salvation. How then could Satan be the designer of that moment? The transformative power of Jesus is evident in the manner in which he died. Jesus transformed the cross from something representing one of the worst tortures ever devised in to a symbol of faith and love for his followers. Further demonstration that the death of Christ was planned by Him. Jesus knew full well how he would die, and was not subject to Satan’s plan.

I did not say it was not the WILL OF THE FATHER.

ANYONE that commits is of the devil.

Jesus even refers to that fact that the father of the hypocrites was satan.

Therefore all of them that shouted and did not recognize HIM were under the spell of satan. Therefore all sin is of the devil.

I am not sure why you are arguing this. If one is under the spell of satan, they still commit sin by their own will. When one rejects God, they reject truth, and therefore they crucify Christ.

Figuratively and literally. In this case, those that shouted for Barabbas and laid down traps and falsely accused him, were all under the spell of satan, since they were not recognizing and in fact rejecting the Christ.

I cannot believe you do not get this by now. Are you suggesting that good men did good deeds by crucifying Christ?

The devil was not going to take his spell away from those that were under his control.