The reason so much of our youth reject Church teaching

[fastenatingguy]

There is only so much teachers and pastors can do, that is absolutely true. I’m the confirmation director at my parish and I have to admit I am very disappointed by this year’s class. Not because the kids were hesitant or shy to talk about their faith. These are 15-year-olds! Of course they are going to be worried about getting something wrong, being judged, etc. That’s part and parcel of being a teenager.

What disappointed me was the lack of commitment by the parents and lack of education coming into my class. Okay, so you don’t know all the fruits of the Holy Spirit. That’s fine! But you can’t tell me more than one symbol for the Spirit? Dove is all you got? Not even the tongues of fire from, you know, Pentecost?! Come on guys!

I can’t blame these young people. It’s not like they aren’t smart kids. They are. They listen to their teachers in class and were more than respectful to me. But they were malnourished by their parents. And that is indeed the biggest problem. One that I hope my generation, the much-maligned millennials, turns around.

I think the fact that being a good Catholic means being countercultural will inspire my generation the way it did so many previous generations where members of the Church were persecuted, discriminated against or generally shunned.

Finally, I think one of the biggest problems is that previous generations here in America cared so much about being popular or liked. Or at least not hated. We’re all about going along and getting along here in the States. But that’s nonsense. We should love everyone, but remember the words Paul wrote to Timothy:

“For God has not given us a spirit of fear and timidity, but of power, love, and self-discipline!”

Hi Bucket-
My experience is quite similar to yours, although this year’s class came on strong at the end. I am not the director but I do all of the preparation. My approach has been review of the Sunday Scriptures (and explaining them) and various topics of the catechism. I spend very little time with the textbook. I also look to current events to try and make the catholic church and faith a real experience for the students. We follow Pope Francis cause he’s always good for an example: “Class, guess who went to confession the other day?” And I try try try to get them to discuss; otherwise, they have to listen to me

May I add to your “previous generations” that they wanted to be accepted, and many thought the way to do that was to become Americans first, catholics second.

 

[fastenatingguy]

I am a little surprised to hear that the quality of catechetical education is still so bad. I know it was terrible for awhile—several decades. Both in Catholic schools and in external religion classes, it seemed as if a sudden turnaround occurred. We went from teaching solid doctrine and the truths of the faith, scripture and church history, to making banners, drawings, singing songs and feeling good about Jesus and ourselves.

I even heard a bishop once recount growing up in this era of soft catechesis. He said he never learned about the Real Presence until he was in seminary, but he learned a lot about making drawings and banners and singing!

It is as though a chemistry teacher had suddenly decided to toss out the old hard nosed curriculum and just teach the kids to feel happy about all the elements and sing nice songs about them.

I think I knew more about Catholic doctrine in fourth grade—before this transition occurred—than many college students do now.

The whole thing was a terrible disservice to children. As a CCD teacher at one time, I even fought unsuccessfully against adopting textbooks which were filled with ambiguous happy talk rather than Catholic truth. Some parents wondered why their older children turned out to be orthodox Catholics and the ones a few years younger, attending the same Catholic schools, ended up being clueless about their religion. It was the change in curriculum and teaching methods.

Things have turned around in my own diocese. Religion is no longer a ‘soft’ curriculum. I hope that it turns around everywhere.

Amen to that!

My son will be a freshman at KU this August. Is that your diocese? I met the pastor at St. Lawrence Parish. Very impressive.

 

[fastenatingguy]

Sure they can. They could even back in my grandparent’s day. One is free to reject or accept any teaching. One is subject to a lot more social pressure now for not accepting gay marriage than for not accepting Catholic moral standards. Rejecting secular orthodoxy carries a greater risk than rejecting Catholic orthodoxy.[/QUOTE]

Sad, but true**

 

[fastenatingguy]

You know what I have noticed. That usually when someone starts out a conversation with “I went to 12 years of Catholic school” They almost always follow it up with something contrary to the faith, or something misinformed about the faith.

Honestly I don’t know why people say this and think it boosts their credibility. To me, it lessens it.

**OOPS

I better change my profile **

 

[ohsnapitslennon]

I totally get you. It wasn’t until two religious sisters taught me that I was taught doctorine and other church related things.

Do you question, just as I do, a catholic school’is decision to have a person who has to bsckground in scripture or theology, teach it? Just to poke at my school even more, he’s not catholic.
Classic quotes from my teacher:

“Gay marriage is okay, the bible was written in a different time”
“So the bible tells us that if you ignore someone, it’s like saying f*** you Jesus” (he actually said the word)
“I’m 100% ProLife, and 100% pro choice”

Yeah. Theology needs to be reevaluated in catholic schools. If I ever start one (which I do), I will be sure that theology is made just as important, or even MORE important than math. It’s needed for souls…what ever happened to “leaving the materials of our world” behind? Why is math more important than theology?

 

[JimG]

Amen to that!

My son will be a freshman at KU this August. Is that your diocese? I met the pastor at St. Lawrence Parish. Very impressive.

I’m not in Lawrence, but I’ve heard a lot of good things about the St. Lawrence Catholic Campus Center and have been there on several occasions for some events. Some time back I heard a talk from then Father James Conley—now Bishop Conley—about his journey to Catholicism and then to the priesthood. A lot of that story took place at K.U. and the St. Lawrence parish. He was not a Catholic when he started at KU, yet ended up a priest. Now he is bishop of Lincoln Nebraska.

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

Does your experience point to failure of a Religion, a failure of teaching, of pastoral care, or something entirely different? Does your experience provide a cautionary tale for others to learn from? Who knows!

If I say yes to all, what then? What’s your motivation for wanting to learn more? To prove me wrong? To help change my mind?

All of that and you don’t even know me personally. It’s the same with many people who come with their problems here and many think they’re in the wrong. Usually it just ends with pointing to a local spiritual director or talking to someone close to the person and to the faith. (None of which are in my social/personal vicinity either. ).

 

[Rau]

If I say yes to all, what then? What’s your motivation for wanting to learn more? To prove me wrong? To help change my mind?

All of that and you don’t even know me personally. It’s the same with many people who come with their problems here and many think they’re in the wrong. Usually it just ends with pointing to a local spiritual director or talking to someone close to the person and to the faith. (None of which are in my social/personal vicinity either. ).

One word answers, and “one liners” would not be worthwhile. You’d need to tell your story, which you may not want to do, and should feel no obligation to do.

Why are any of us here? To discuss, to learn, to share, to challenge and test ideas, to understand.

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

Why are any of us here? To discuss, to learn, to share, to challenge and test ideas, to understand.

Yet the same mods who encourage all that are the ones who will tell you there is only so much you can accomplish to help someone over an online forum. Maybe it’s time you learn that too.

 

[Rau]

Yet the same mods who encourage all that are the ones who will tell you there is only so much you can accomplish to help someone over an online forum. Maybe it’s time you learn that too.

Who mentioned helping ? Who is seeking help?

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

Who mentioned helping ? Who is seeking help?

You claim to want to understand. For what purpose is that?

 

[Rau]

You claim to want to understand. For what purpose is that?

Intellectual stimulation. The pleasure of conversing with another person about more than the weather. Why do you come here?

 

[EasterJoy]

You claim to want to understand. For what purpose is that?

Well, when you tell something important about yourself to someone, don’t they usually ask follow-up questions, so they can understand what you’re saying more fully? Is it right to just presume you have nothing more to say that is worth hearing?

You know, I only waved goodbye because you seemed unhappy about being asked to think about staying.

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

Intellectual stimulation. The pleasure of conversing with another person about more than the weather. Why do you come here?

Oh well then we both have the same reason. The only difference is my definition of pleasure involves watching people struggle with the limits of their own experiences with the Faith when it doesn’t match someone else’ (oh, alongside the limits of online forums ).

Well, when you tell something important about yourself to someone, don’t they usually ask follow-up questions, so they can understand what you’re saying more fully? Is it right to just presume you have nothing more to say that is worth hearing?

You know, I only waved goodbye because you seemed unhappy about being asked to think about staying.

You know even if I had a camera and linked all of you to a video presentation of my personal tragedy, none of you would still get it because you don’t know me beyond the few minutes I drop by these boards. Ever thought of that the next time you try to help other ‘fallen away Catholics’ who come by here? It’s not like they’re your next door neighbor. Sharing ‘more details’ isn’t going to fix that for you.

 

[HappyCatholic01]

I was born in 1970. I attended only Catholic schools. This sounds like my education. I left the faith at 16 years old. Returned in my 40’s. It was then that I read what the Catholic faith truly was. I fell in love with the Church and it’s teachings. It was then that I understood why it taught what it taught. I remember saying to myself…why didn’t I learn this when I was growing up?

As product of 12 years of excellent Catholic education (Sisters of Notre Dame De Namur, and the Xaverian Brothers),the only thing that kept my faith from going the way of many of my peers(non-practicing, or indifferent while practicing) was my mother. She was and is rock solid, and imbued that faith into her children. Even with a non-Catholic father, a strong parent made the difference.

Children usually go as far as their parents push them to go. The 1960s-1980s left a generation of parents who often at best went through the motions of their faith, and that was what their children learned. Children are always more like their parents than they care to realize, and that applies to most of us, I daresay.

 

[shelby_sun]

Hoosier Daddy;11980198:

You know what I have noticed. That usually when someone starts out a conversation with "I went to 12 years of Catholic school"

They almost always follow it up with something contrary to the faith, or something misinformed about the faith.

Honestly I don’t know why people say this and think it boosts their credibility. To me, it lessens it.

**OOPS

I better change my profile **

I have no credibility here, so that is fine. Just FYI, every Catholic grade school has a pastor who is suppose to over see it especially the theology it teaches, so you so you might want address the thousands and thousands of Catholic priest they are failing.

I guess you will have much more room in heaven without all of us stupid Catholic schools people all going to hell since we didn’t learn anything. That’s kind of scary with the thousands of Catholic schools all over the world. Maybe they are all the ones leaving the Church.

 

[LongingSoul]

fastenatingguy;11993934:

I have no credibility here, so that is fine. Just FYI, every Catholic grade school has a pastor who is suppose to over see it especially the theology it teaches, so you so you might want address the thousands and thousands of Catholic priest they are failing.

I guess you will have much more room in heaven without all of us stupid Catholic schools people all going to hell since we didn’t learn anything.

That’s kind of scary with the thousands of Catholic schools all over the world. Maybe they are all the ones leaving the Church.

That’s a bit childish and has nothing to do with what is being discussed. Paul makes clear the way God judges souls and it ultimately isn’t tied to whether you did 12 years of Catholic school…

Rom 2:12-16 All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.) This will take place on the day when God judges people’s secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.

If you reject major doctrines of the Catholic faith, spiritual integrity moves you one of two ways. Too try and heal your unbelief through prayer and openness to teaching… or quietly dissent by command of your own conscience.

The movement to openly and obstinently criticise the doctrines in an attempt to discredit the Church in the eyes of others, while feeding from its bounty… well in secular philosohy it amounts to treason. A fundamentally deviant character flaw.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

fastenatingguy;11993934:

I have no credibility here, so that is fine. Just FYI, every Catholic grade school has a pastor who is suppose to over see it especially the theology it teaches, so you so you might want address the thousands and thousands of Catholic priest they are failing.

I guess you will have much more room in heaven without all of us stupid Catholic schools people all going to hell since we didn’t learn anything. That’s kind of scary with the thousands of Catholic schools all over the world. Maybe they are all the ones leaving the Church.

I have noticed that you mention it a lot.
Don’t get all riled up.

My post is not a shot at those who attend Catholic schools but rather those who use it as some sort of credibility to their “Catholicity” I too went to Catholic schools. Mine was poor in Catechisis.
I think using the "i went to 12 years of Catholic school line is used sometimes to add credibility where it is not due. Because a lot of time it is followed with heterodox statements. And it can seem like the person is somehow claiming credibility and knowledge that they should not need to claim. Let your yes be yes and your no be no.

And you should have witnessed that on these boards many take it not as credibility but rather as a knock on someones understanding of the faith. And that can be frustrating.
Rarely do you see statements like “I went to 12 years of Catholic school and I am on the conservative side of an issue.”

The venerable Bishop Fulton J Sheen is credited with the quote:

“If you want your children to fight for their faith, send them to public school. If you want them to lose their faith, send them to Catholic school.”

We do neither in our family so…

But perhaps those priests should take it up with him…

 

[EasterJoy]

You know even if I had a camera and linked all of you to a video presentation of my personal tragedy, none of you would still get it because you don’t know me beyond the few minutes I drop by these boards. Ever thought of that the next time you try to help other ‘fallen away Catholics’ who come by here? It’s not like they’re your next door neighbor. Sharing ‘more details’ isn’t going to fix that for you.

We get people who come here, post once, and never post again. We get people who angrily reject whatever feedback they get, because it isn’t the validation of their position that they were hoping to solicit. We get people who post over and over about the same problem, give progress reports, report that they were helped or not by the feedback, and so on.

We actually don’t get all that many people who come and complain about their problems but then turn down requests for further elaboration by letting us know that we could not possibly understand their situation or help them. What would be the point of that?

All you had to do with a request for further information is either a) ignore the invitation to elaborate or b) say:* Listen, you wanted to know why young people leave. I’m young, I left, that was why, and I don’t care to elaborate or discuss it, thank you very much. I’m just giving a firsthand anecdote to answer your question. That is all I care to say.* You don’t have to get insulting when people ask follow-up questions.

So, once again: What you do with your anger at God is your business. If you don’t want to talk about it, fine. What you do with your inheritance of faith is between you and God, too. We hope you come back soon, but you have your own free will.

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

We actually don’t get all that many people who come and complain about their problems but then turn down requests for further elaboration by letting us know that we could not possibly understand their situation or help them. What would be the point of that?

Venting. Argumentation. Demonstrating the limits of online forums/debate. The last one I’ve clearly laid out as my objective and you guys are all just going on and proving my point.

You don’t have to get insulting when people ask follow-up questions.

All I did was challenge you people to prove that you can be just as understanding of a person’s situation as someone in their immediate social circle.

If you can’t do it, then don’t take take it out on me and call it insulting.

So, once again: What you do with your anger at God is your business. If you don’t want to talk about it, fine. What you do with your inheritance of faith is between you and God, too. We hope you come back soon, but you have your own free will.

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