The reason so much of our youth reject Church teaching

[pianistclare]

I worked in youth ministry for many years. We ran lifeteen and the edge for several of them. My comment was that no food and catechism heavy does not sound like a “life” night. One would have to stray from the skeleton lifeteen provides.
Recently life teen has make the move to be more accessible and maleable to fit different youth programs.

It is true that I do not like life teen. I know that others do. I have seen both good and bad with both sides.

From a rock concert Mass to 2 hours of dodgeball. To teens crying because God has been revealed to them. When we ran life teen we made the last half hour adoration time. Every night. It helped.
Life teen has also moved away from a central “youth minister” with it’s “Core team” philosophy. I don’t necessarily think that is feasible for every parish. Lifeteen does provide a way to “wean” from it. More freedom to make different nights. (We did a pro life night that was awesome) and then pretty soon perhaps the training wheels can come off.

I think lifeteen runs about 10 years behind the youth. (most things adults do run about 10 years behind the youth)
Teens see through the fake. The attempt at “hip” music or language. They can spot authentic people a mile away. And most youth ministers are not letting themselves be “authentic” We are trying to be “teens” in adult bodies. And that is not what they need.

The youth are starving to be fed. They NEED it and they are being poisoned all day long every day. It is time to stop dressing up the food to look like the poison they have been eating.
It is time to feed the sheep.

OK, I’m not sure what you’re saying here, but I wonder what refreshments have to do with anything, There’s no where in LifeNights that say “here’s where you provide a snack.”
Sometime we do, like around holidays, but mostly we don’t because I prefer to spend my budget money on religious material.
I agree with you that kids need to be fed. but let’s not say that LifeTeen or any other approved curriculum is not effective. It depends on the people teaching, like in any Catechism setting. You can have well meaning little old ladies teaching Sunday school, and they can spend the whole year on crafts.
It’s dependent on the DRE and his or her team.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

OK, I’m not sure what you’re saying here, but I wonder what refreshments have to do with anything, There’s no where in LifeNights that say “here’s where you provide a snack.”
Sometime we do, like around holidays, but mostly we don’t because I prefer to spend my budget money on religious material.
I agree with you that kids need to be fed. but let’s not say that LifeTeen or any other approved curriculum is not effective. It depends on the people teaching, like in any Catechism setting. You can have well meaning little old ladies teaching Sunday school, and they can spend the whole year on crafts.
It’s dependent on the DRE and his or her team.

We need not turn this into a lifeteen vs anything else thread. Personally I can say lifeteen is not effective. You can disagree. Before I left youth ministry I attended many youth conferences. In Catholic circles Lifeteen is the standard. But outside of Catholicism it is unheard of. I am good friends with a protestant Youth Minister. (You know those protestants are serious. You have to be an actual “minister” with a degree and everything. Ordained! It isn’t just Mrs Johnsons kids are teens so she is going to be the Youth Minister this year!)
But they face the same problems. The have programs that are similar to lifeteen and radically different.

Read this article because I think it will interest you particularly.
It takes just one aspect of youth ministry (music) and basically makes the point that teens want something other than what lifeteen type programs are giving them.

reformedworship.org/article/june-1997/teens-and-church-music-what-do-they-really-think

We undertook this project with the hunch that most teenagers would declare rock and pop music to be appropriate church music sounds. Virtually every published study has indicated that rock and pop are the types of music teenagers prefer for their leisure listening, regardless of their religious background, musical training, or gender. And we had assumed that this preference would carry over into every context.

The findings showed, however, that this large and diverse group of adolescents gave the highest ratings of appropriateness to traditional choral music and the lowest to Christian rock music. The responses to contemporary Christian music (CCM) were clearly divided into two groups, expressing either stron; approval or strong disapproval. Apparently these teenagers were able to separate a judgment of the kind of music they liked to listen to in some settings from that which they considered appropriate in the context of the church service.

 

[pianistclare]

OK, I’m out. We’ll just disagree. But I don’t see why anyone outside of the Catholic Church would use LifeTeen, It’s a Catholic program, all about the Eucharist, Catholic teachings, and Our Lady.
No other denomination would be able to square it with their beliefs.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

OK, I’m out. We’ll just disagree. But I don’t see why anyone outside of the Catholic Church would use LifeTeen, It’s a Catholic program, all about the Eucharist, Catholic teachings, and Our Lady.
No other denomination would be able to square it with their beliefs.

It is probably a conversation for another day.

I wasn’t saying they would use lifeteen. Just that they study all sorts of different models and they have never heard of it. But as with most things Catholic they think it is some sort of secret that Dan Brown will clear up.

We can definitely agree to disagree.

I love 99 percent of your thoughts on these boards. I’m ok if one percent of the time you are off your rocker!

 

[BettyBoop416]

Many many people who disagree or hate the church/faith ONLY hates it or disagrees with it because they think they know what they are talking about when in fact they don’t and do not have all the facts… And when you tell them to actually go and find out about the faith and do some research they wont.

While this is undoubtedly true of some people, I know several young adults who have a very good understanding of what the Church teaches. They just don’t believe it.

 

[Avocadomom]

I can understand that entirely. But it’s still a juvenile perspective. After all, everyone is “doing it wrong” because none of us are Christ or the Blessed Mother. Regardless of belief systems and even having the Fullness of Truth here in the Church, we’re still failing. And we’re always going to fail. That’s part of the human condition.

I think more these days that being seen as a hypocrite is somehow the worst thing in the world. Better to have a flexible belief system that denies sin, denies failure to live up to one’s creed, than to have to admit failure! Fear of failure again, so juvenile! And yet it’s a fear I had for so long and still deal with today. But I’m getting more comfortable with saying “You’re calling me a hypocrite? Yes. I absolutely am. I fail to live up to my beliefs on a daily basis. But that hypocrisy doesn’t make the Truth any less True!”

I think what I meant more is not that it’s hard to live a Christian life or meet the Christian ideals, but that it’s hard to believe that somehow one group has got the corner on the “fullness of truth” when there are hundreds, if not thousands, of other groups that think the exact same thing and have their own “convincing” arguments as to why they are true.

It’s like - you’re born Catholic and are taught that it’s more or less the only way to get to Heaven. And yet… The rest of the world goes on living their lives thinking THEY are the only group getting to Heaven. THEY are having their own religious experiences in their own faiths, and feeling just fine about it. What are the chances that WE happen to be the one “right” path.

When kids are exposed to what else is out there, the variance and beauty of other faiths and belief systems, it makes it very difficult to believe that the way they happened to be taught is the only right way.

Kind of like - I was raised a staunchly conservative home. My parents were dyed-in-the-wood Reagan Republicans and taught us to think like they did. Then, you know, we grew up and saw that other people were just as passionate about THEIR beliefs! As it turns out, I am still a conservative but do disagree with my parents on a few topics. It wasn’t until I was older that it became apparent that, yes, very intelligent and seemingly happy people did disagree with my parents!

 

[IBombAtomically]

In our house growing up, my father was not Catholic, and my mother stressed the obligation part of church more than anything else. Even saying “I don’t wanna go to Mass this week” was unthinkable. Following through on the Sunday and Holy Day Mass obligations, saying the rosary on Good Friday, going to Confession twice a year (during Lent and Advent), and saying the Our Father and Hail Mary every night was a given, and the worst thing in the world was to deviate from those external practices.

OTOH, interior life was neglected. We were taught nothing about the actual Deposit of Faith. Not a word of “this is what we believe and why we believe it.” I had vaguely heard the word “tabernacle” at some point in my life, but didn’t know what it was until I was 26 years old and looked it up myself. I did not know there was such a thing as the Catechism of the Catholic Church! I went to CCD every week until Confirmation and learned literally nothing. It was “what should you do if there’s a new kid and no one sits with him at lunch?”

Everything I know about our Faith, I had to look up for myself as an adult.

I’ve discovered my Catholic parent did the best she could, but she knows almost nothing about the faith either, and actually her beliefs are more in line with Protestantism. She isn’t interested in learning more. I am thankful she made us go to church, though.

 

[The_Bucket]

I think what I meant more is not that it’s hard to live a Christian life or meet the Christian ideals, but that it’s hard to believe that somehow one group has got the corner on the “fullness of truth” when there are hundreds, if not thousands, of other groups that think the exact same thing and have their own “convincing” arguments as to why they are true.

It’s like - you’re born Catholic and are taught that it’s more or less the only way to get to Heaven. And yet… The rest of the world goes on living their lives thinking THEY are the only group getting to Heaven. THEY are having their own religious experiences in their own faiths, and feeling just fine about it. What are the chances that WE happen to be the one “right” path.

When kids are exposed to what else is out there, the variance and beauty of other faiths and belief systems, it makes it very difficult to believe that the way they happened to be taught is the only right way.

Kind of like - I was raised a staunchly conservative home. My parents were dyed-in-the-wood Reagan Republicans and taught us to think like they did. Then, you know, we grew up and saw that other people were just as passionate about THEIR beliefs! As it turns out, I am still a conservative but do disagree with my parents on a few topics. It wasn’t until I was older that it became apparent that, yes, very intelligent and seemingly happy people did disagree with my parents!

Perhaps it’s a matter of familiarity. My father was Jewish for the first 21 years of my life prior to his conversion. My grandmother is agnostic at best and pretty much literally a communist politically. So I was quite aware that there were people who believed other things and people that believed in nothing.

That’s not to say I haven’t wrestled with matters of faith. But I’ve more or less come to the conclusion that either the Church is right or God does not exist. Could it be something else? Sure. But I don’t really see the evidence of the Spirit working elsewhere in Taoism or Hinduism or something the way I see it in the Church.

 

[JimG]

In our house growing up, my father was not Catholic, and my mother stressed the obligation part of church more than anything else. Even saying “I don’t wanna go to Mass this week” was unthinkable. Following through on the Sunday and Holy Day Mass obligations, saying the rosary on Good Friday, going to Confession twice a year (during Lent and Advent), and saying the Our Father and Hail Mary every night was a given, and the worst thing in the world was to deviate from those external practices.

OTOH, interior life was neglected. We were taught nothing about the actual Deposit of Faith. Not a word of “this is what we believe and why we believe it.” I had vaguely heard the word “tabernacle” at some point in my life, but didn’t know what it was until I was 26 years old and looked it up myself. I did not know there was such a thing as the Catechism of the Catholic Church! I went to CCD every week until Confirmation and learned literally nothing. It was “what should you do if there’s a new kid and no one sits with him at lunch?”

Everything I know about our Faith, I had to look up for myself as an adult.

I’ve discovered my Catholic parent did the best she could, but she knows almost nothing about the faith either, and actually her beliefs are more in line with Protestantism. She isn’t interested in learning more. I am thankful she made us go to church, though.

Yes I believe you that there was a huge drop off in the teaching of the Catholic Faith. It’s true that in some cases, the Faith had been taught as a set of rules only, with no devotional content. That was not the case where I grew up. The two things went together.

But the reaction to that was often to emphasize emotion to the exclusion of content. The actual beliefs were made less important than whether you love one another. That brought about a situation of widespread relativism: well, we can all believe different things and they can all be true.

But they can’t. I think we are just now getting to the point of putting the two back together again.

It’s not that Catholic kids in the “old days” didn’t know that there were other religions and other beliefs out there. They knew about them; they learned about them. But they knew there own Faith well enough to decide that Christ did not intend to leave them permanently clueless in a relativistic world. It seems that many now actually do think that nothing is knowable, nothing is certain, all is relative. It’s a sad way to live, and the de-emphasis in the colleges on classical philosophy has also contributed to it.

 

[Kal2012]

I’ve found that the people who know their faith had parents/grandparents who knew and practiced their faith.

My husband and I are both converts to Catholicism. I come from a very strong Protestant background. Being a Christian was a huge deal for my grandparents. He doesn’t. He never attended church until he was a teenager.

It doesn’t surprise me too much that I’m the one who’s “gung-ho” on my child learning Catholicism.

My son is old enough for VBS this year, so he’s going. He’s also finished up his first year of CCD this year. Half the book was sent home with him unused. We’ll be going through the rest of the book this summer. He’s already signed up for CCD in the fall.

My husband doesn’t attend mass with us, but he encourages us to go. (Yeah, I don’t get it either.) At this point, I just pray and hope that the Holy Spirit works in his life sooner rather than later.

 

[shelby_sun]

While this is undoubtedly true of some people, I know several young adults who have a very good understanding of what the Church teaches. They just don’t believe it.

I agree. I don’t know why people cannot get this. There are thousands of people that have gone to good Catholic school and fully understand the ins and outs of the Church’s teachings and simply do not agree. These are not stupid people incapable of understand; in fact, many of these school are Catholic College Prep school or Catholic Colleges getting a very high level education. It isn’t a matter of getting them to “understand”.

 

[mommamaree]

Being an opinionated loudmouth, I of course have an opinion on the matter!

Here’s my take.

The genuine and legitimate reason for Vatican II was over concern that Catholicism had become more of a philosophy, moral system and institution than a relationship with God. The purpose of Vatican II originally was to call people not to be content to merely “pray, pay and obey” but to enter boldly into the faith and encounter Christ and be remade by Him.

Unfortunately, that message got hijacked rather badly. Weaknesses are often the flip sides of strengths. It was a STRENGTH of Catholicism that we had a rigorous intellectual tradition, a comprehensive moral theology and integrated culture and liturgical life. That strength was so strong, that some DID simply define those things as the whole of Catholicism rather than the effects of it. Those folks felt that human attention is a zero sum game so that in order to increase the spiritual vitality of catholics, they had to first destroy all the external trappings that had grown up over the centuries that supported catholic culture.

This was the exact WRONG thing to do. Instead of going BEYOND “pray, pay and obey” to a full encounter with the living Christ, people have defined the latter down to feel-good sugary spiritual junk food devoid of any serious meaning. Traditionalists usually suspect this was done maliciously, but my opinion is that it came about via naivety.

So in my experience, there are two sorts of catholics out there that are really vulnerable to the seductions of the modern culture.

1. The kind that’s never been formed well in actual Catholicism that this thread has so far focused on.
2. The kind that received instruction in an external form of Catholicism that significantly lacked an experience of encountering Christ as the living God who loves us in their everyday lives. This latter kind is the sort that bailed out in droves when the 1960’s came along. It was nearly defenseless in the face of the “find your inner self” philosophies that became popular in the 60’s because it really did lack spiritual depth in many cases.

So, IMO, learning your catechism is an absolute prerequisite for a healthy and durable faith, but it’s not enough. Christ must be encountered as a real person and fallen in love with. BOTH aspects are required to weather this storm of shallow secularism we’re in. Evangelize your kids BOTH ways.

Powerful post!

 

[Avocadomom]

I agree. I don’t know why people cannot get this. There are thousands of people that have gone to good Catholic school and fully understand the ins and outs of the Church’s teachings and simply do not agree. These are not stupid people incapable of understand; in fact, many of these school are Catholic College Prep school or Catholic Colleges getting a very high level education. It isn’t a matter of getting them to “understand”.

Yep. Some people just don’t buy it, despite great educations, good examples, being raised “right,” etc.

Even though I love the Catholic Church, generally speaking, it’s always been really hard for me to truly believe that it’s all totally true and that God, say for example, cares that we confess to a priest vs. just being sorry. People have insinuated over the years that if only I re-read Humanae Vitae, or spoke with the right priest, or prayed harder, dissected the Catechism, studied the Old Testament more, took more classes, went to Bible Study, read more encyclicals, then I would eventually agree. It didn’t work that way.

People like to say that if you don’t agree with the Church, the fault lies with you because the Church is never wrong. A lot of people find that notion to be silly, pointless, and untenable. They simply have more skeptical personalities or perhaps like to ponder things more than others. And they can’t force themselves to believe, nor do they want to simply obey without understanding or agreement.

 

[llenadegracia]

Yep. Some people just don’t buy it, despite great educations, good examples, being raised “right,” etc.

Even though I love the Catholic Church, generally speaking, it’s always been really hard for me to truly believe that it’s all totally true and that God, say for example, cares that we confess to a priest vs. just being sorry. People have insinuated over the years that if only I re-read Humanae Vitae, or spoke with the right priest, or prayed harder, dissected the Catechism, studied the Old Testament more, took more classes, went to Bible Study, read more encyclicals, then I would eventually agree. It didn’t work that way.

People like to say that if you don’t agree with the Church, the fault lies with you because the Church is never wrong. A lot of people find that notion to be silly, pointless, and untenable. They simply have more skeptical personalities or perhaps like to ponder things more than others. And they can’t force themselves to believe, nor do they want to simply obey without understanding or agreement.

I like your post a lot. I am the same way, ironically also about confess to a priest vs. just being sorry. I began asking questions and trying to understand during high school…and the answers I received were new to me and challenged me to think critically at the time. But years later, now in college and in my twenties, I still am just not grasping some topics as fully as other people seem to grasp them.

I read something someone write on a different thread an explanation I really like. The thread was about disagreeing with the Church and still being a “good Catholic”. The individual wrote that you can’t just say the Church is wrong, but instead remain open to the truth even if you don’t understand. I have come to terms that perhaps I will never really understand many many issues nor believe in them with the same amount of faith other people sometimes seem to carry. That is ok for me, I have decided. I think I am more skeptical and ponder more than others. But this is the path I have chosen. I don’t know.

 

[Rau]

Yep. Some people just don’t buy it, despite great educations, good examples, being raised “right,” etc.

Even though I love the Catholic Church, generally speaking, it’s always been really hard for me to truly believe that it’s all totally true and that God, say for example, cares that we confess to a priest vs. just being sorry. People have insinuated over the years that if only I re-read Humanae Vitae, or spoke with the right priest, or prayed harder, dissected the Catechism, studied the Old Testament more, took more classes, went to Bible Study, read more encyclicals, then I would eventually agree. It didn’t work that way.

People like to say that if you don’t agree with the Church, the fault lies with you because the Church is never wrong. A lot of people find that notion to be silly, pointless, and untenable. They simply have more skeptical personalities or perhaps like to ponder things more than others. And they can’t force themselves to believe, nor do they want to simply obey without understanding or agreement.

The primary question to ponder is whether you believe God - Jesus - established the Church. And did he give authority to Peter and the Apostles to “bind” and to “loose”? If this much you believe, it becomes untenable that the Church can lead you astray.

 

[Usige]

I agree. I don’t know why people cannot get this. There are thousands of people that have gone to good Catholic school and fully understand the ins and outs of the Church’s teachings and simply do not agree. These are not stupid people incapable of understand; in fact, many of these school are Catholic College Prep school or Catholic Colleges getting a very high level education. It isn’t a matter of getting them to “understand”.

To be honest, most of the issue is not presenting the material and having an intellectual understanding, but rather in the fact that most of us lack humility and suffer from excessive pride. I know I certainly had that issue when I was younger and still have to check my pride at the door more often than I’d like.

Why is that important? By setting ourselves up as an authority (or the authority) we limit the ability for faith and belief to grow and prosper. We harden our hearts and minds where everything must pass our intellectual litmus test before we consider it to be true. It takes a bit of maturity (and not a few pride smack downs) before we can get to a point where we can say “I might not understand it, but perhaps someone might know more than I do.” Our academic culture makes that very difficult because not having the answers is seen as a failure. The constant push to always be right is often damaging to faith.

Anytime me or my kids start to question why I tried to remember/remind them of Luke 22:42 - “… but yet not my will, but thine be done.”

 

[Rence]

This is a bit of a rant, so if you’re looking for something more uplifting, I’d advise you to press the Back button and find another thread.

Anyone still with me? OK.

I was wondering why so many of us young people were rejecting Church teaching, even after in some cases years of Catholic school, or CCD. Was the teaching of Holy Mother Church really so unattractive as to merit repulsion?

So many people (both youths and adults) reject Church teaching simply because they CAN. The Church doesn’t have the power to enforce its rules and laws anymore like it used to in the past. It is no longer a crime, punishable by fines or prison, to deviate from Church teaching. That’s what freedom does: It gives people a choice. And when given a choice, people will do what they want to do, not what others want them to do.

 

[humble_maid]

NOT at my church.
We teach according to the Magisterium at LifeTeen. Teens must turn in their phones, no texting allowed. We seldom have snacks. Only for special occasions and they are always very appreciated.
We open with a game, but after that? All Catholic teaching. Every time.
Sorry you have such a bad opinion about youth groups, but there are MANY good programs out there.
I left teaching in a Catholic school because the principal thought I was “too Catholic” and parents might be upset by the Catholic teaching. AT A CATHOLIC SCHOOL.
So, I moved across the street tot he parish.
Where I can be as Catholic as I want. And the kids love it.

The reason why kids reject the faith is because their parents have.
Their parents have abdicated their teaching responsibility to the television, Youtube, popular media, teen peers, and a few teachers. They are not modeling faith to their children. They claim they have no time, or know nothing about the faith.
Faith begins at home. Catechists can turn a kid on to their faith…but it’s very hard when there is no support from home.

I agree. There is another factor which contributes to this, though it is not everywhere, but some catechists are more secular/ or protestant in their views and don’t follow the manual or CCC as prescribed.

 

[JimG]

So many people (both youths and adults) reject Church teaching simply because they CAN. The Church doesn’t have the power to enforce its rules and laws anymore like it used to in the past. It is no longer a crime, punishable by fines or prison, to deviate from Church teaching. That’s what freedom does: It gives people a choice. And when given a choice, people will do what they want to do, not what others want them to do.

Sure they can. They could even back in my grandparent’s day. One is free to reject or accept any teaching. One is subject to a lot more social pressure now for not accepting gay marriage than for not accepting Catholic moral standards. Rejecting secular orthodoxy carries a greater risk than rejecting Catholic orthodoxy.

 

[Avocadomom]

To be honest, most of the issue is not presenting the material and having an intellectual understanding, but rather in the fact that most of us lack humility and suffer from excessive pride. I know I certainly had that issue when I was younger and still have to check my pride at the door more often than I’d like.

Why is that important? By setting ourselves up as an authority (or the authority) we limit the ability for faith and belief to grow and prosper. We harden our hearts and minds where everything must pass our intellectual litmus test before we consider it to be true. It takes a bit of maturity (and not a few pride smack downs) before we can get to a point where we can say “I might not understand it, but perhaps someone might know more than I do.” Our academic culture makes that very difficult because not having the answers is seen as a failure. The constant push to always be right is often damaging to faith.

Anytime me or my kids start to question why I tried to remember/remind them of Luke 22:42 - “… but yet not my will, but thine be done.”

So if someone says “despite all my prayer and studying and attempts to reconcile this, the teaching does not ring true to me” it’s just that they lack humility? I don’t know how many people can just go along with something they, even after much study and prayer, feel is wrong. The Church will always have the trump card of “you just don’t understand, and if you did you would agree with us.” Many people find that very offensive. The idea that one should “just go along” despite deep internal disagreement is questionable.