The reasons why we exist?

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nmgauss said:
We live by materialism. If we were free spirits without any need for water, food, or shelter, we could afford to avoid materialism. If we strive to avoid materialism, our bodies will die. Is this the preference of the Catholic Church? After all, being human is to do the things that the rest of the creatures on earth do: have sex, eat, drink, and often prepare nests with materials. I suppose that the more one can distance himself/herself from materialism, the vile need of humans, the more one can begin to approach pure spirituality.
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Unlike the animals who have a material body, and unlike the angels who are pure spirit, human beings are a combination of both matter and spirit. Of course we need to reasonably take care of our bodily needs…eating, drinking, clothing, housing. Excessive materialism is what we are to avoid as we strive to know, love and serve the Lord in the world.
 
Dorothy said:
We live by materialism. If we were free spirits without any need for water, food, or shelter, we could afford to avoid materialism. If we strive to avoid materialism, our bodies will die. Is this the preference of the Catholic Church? After all, being human is to do the things that the rest of the creatures on earth do: have sex, eat, drink, and often prepare nests with materials. I suppose that the more one can distance himself/herself from materialism, the vile need of humans, the more one can begin to approach pure spirituality.
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Thanks, Dorothy. You have left me nothing to write. Well done! 🙂
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Dorothy said:
Unlike the animals who have a material body, and unlike the angels who are pure spirit, human beings are a combination of both matter and spirit. Of course we need to reasonably take care of our bodily needs…eating, drinking, clothing, housing. Excessive materialism is what we are to avoid as we strive to know, love and serve the Lord in the world.
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How do you characterize excessive materialism?
 
nmgauss said:
How do you characterize excessive materialism?
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Making an idol out of our possessions would be excessive, such as putting them before the Lord.

The Lord needs to be the priority in my life, and I definitely need to pray, receive Him in the Eucharist, and have community with others in order to follow Him. My hope is to make Him recognizable in me, so that others will be attracted to Him.

The Lord is my peace, and everything I need. 🙂 I definitely want others to have that peace, and longing to be with Him forever…which is the purpose of our lives.
 
Aloysium said:
Be aware that your views rest on a strong Catholic foundation.

Consider that, were you to promote your current beliefs to someone who does not possess that basis, you could be contributing to the formation of a demon.

There are people who fear nothing but their own death and are prepared to do anything to fulfill their whims. There are people who have no love in them, no respect for truth and there is no depravity to which they will not sink. There is clearly a wide spectrum of individuals between where you are and those that fit this description; but witness Nazi Germany as an archetypal example: what separates civilized man from the brute, can be quite fragile. Don’t encourage it by leaviing out your fundemental beliefs (that hopefully, I am not misreading between the lines) about love being of crucial importance to us.
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It is quite clear that John believes in love but not where God is concerned, i.e. “God is not concerned”!
 
tonyrey said:
It is quite clear that John believes in love but not where God is concerned, i.e. “God is not concerned”!
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If God were not concerned, love would not matter.
Love is practically useless in terms of the things of this world except as a tool for manipulation and getting what you want.
Love has to be of supreme meaning and value; it has to be at the centre, the heart of reality.
If it weren’t, then what possible value would it have. One would be left with the fact that one could do whatever it is that one willed; it would not matter.
 
Aloysium said:
If God were not concerned, love would not matter.
Love is practically useless in terms of the things of this world except as a tool for manipulation and getting what you want.
Love has to be of supreme meaning and value; it has to be at the centre, the heart of reality.
If it weren’t, then what possible value would it have. One would be left with the fact that one could do whatever it is that one willed; it would not matter.
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I disagree with the bolded statement. I think you are speaking of the misuse of love. True love can and should bind people together in a way that makes all parties want to help and look out for the other. I personally can’t imagine my life without that earthly form of love.

However, that love is not dependent on the divine to be important and productive. As I have pointed out before, I do not see love in the holy documents of Christianity. After much study I was forced to conclude that that God does not exist, that the evidence pointed to a creator God who has little interest in the particulars of that creation.

God may be a developing intelligence, much like us, and this creation is an experiment…I really don’t know.
 
oldcelt said:
I disagree with the bolded statement. I think you are speaking of the misuse of love. True love can and should bind people together in a way that makes all parties want to help and look out for the other. I personally can’t imagine my life without that earthly form of love.

However, that love is not dependent on the divine to be important and productive. As I have pointed out before, I do not see love in the holy documents of Christianity. After much study I was forced to conclude that that God does not exist, that the evidence pointed to a creator God who has little interest in the particulars of that creation.

God may be a developing intelligence, much like us, and this creation is an experiment…I really don’t know.
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Don’t you see love in the life, death and teaching of Christ?

If we are capable of love - and God isn’t - how did it originate?
 
oldcelt said:
. . . True love can and should bind people together in a way that makes all parties want to help and look out for the other. I personally can’t imagine my life without that earthly form of love.

However, that love is not dependent on the divine to be important and productive. As I have pointed out before, I do not see love in the holy documents of Christianity. After much study I was forced to conclude that that God does not exist, that the evidence pointed to a creator God who has little interest in the particulars of that creation.

God may be a developing intelligence, much like us, and this creation is an experiment…I really don’t know.
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Had you said, “I see the trees, the houses, the road and the mountains. I see the sun up in the sky alone, having nothing to do with anything down here.”, it would have made more sense to me.

When the priest made changes to the seating in the church in response to the little boy who felt left out, did he do so because he recognized that the boy was a social equal to the rich and powerful kids? I don’t think so because in this world, one millionth of the population controls more wealth and has more power than the remaining 999,999/1,000,000. He did so because God, whose will we want done, tells us that we are all equal in His eyes.

The compassion felt for the five year old girl is clearly better than the lustful arousal that a pedophile would feel. As obvious and as this is, that is how obvious God’s presence is. All the beauty, all the love, the truth either seen directly, or through the horror of its absence, points to our Creator.

Celt, your story is not that different from that of many others here. God’s aim is to make us good. Suffering on earth is transitory, and seems to be what we chose when we ate the fruit.
 
Is love part of the turmoil going on in the Middle East today? Are the Islamists in Egypt opposing the democrats because of love? How about the ancient conflict between Sunni and Shii Muslims? Where is love?

When the Crusades and Inquisitions were rampant, where was love? If Pope Urban II sponsored the Crusades, love was not in his heart; only enhancement of Church power. Inquisitions were conducted from a repressive and protective viewpoint, not from a position of love. I think Jesus would not approve of many Catholic Church policies, such as placing bishop’s and priest’s welfare above parishioners, money making activities, and ostentatious display of Church wealth. Jesus was about love, not Church power.

Jews have had a long history of being attacked by Christians. Where is love in this?

Why is there so much hatred of Mormons? Also, why are so many Mormons suspicious of Christians? Where is love?
 
nmgauss said:
Is love part of the turmoil going on in the Middle East today? Are the Islamists in Egypt opposing the democrats because of love? How about the ancient conflict between Sunni and Shii Muslims? Where is love?

When the Crusades and Inquisitions were rampant, where was love? If Pope Urban II sponsored the Crusades, love was not in his heart; only enhancement of Church power. Inquisitions were conducted from a repressive and protective viewpoint, not from a position of love. I think Jesus would not approve of many Catholic Church policies, such as placing bishop’s and priest’s welfare above parishioners, money making activities, and ostentatious display of Church wealth. Jesus was about love, not Church power.

Jews have had a long history of being attacked by Christians. Where is love in this?

Why is there so much hatred of Mormons? Also, why are so many Mormons suspicious of Christians? Where is love?
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Yes, there is sin and corruption in the hearts of many people. That does not eclipse the Truth that the Lord has revealed to us in Divine Revelation. And from those who know better (it is a privilege), more is expected.

There are saints in the Church as well as great sinners. The saints show what can be accomplished with the grace of the Lord. This is usually not spotlighted.

You wrote this above: “I think Jesus would not approve of many Catholic Church policies, such as placing bishop’s and priest’s welfare above parishioners, money making activities, and ostentatious display of Church wealth.”

There are holy bishops, and there are mediocre bishops. I am not about to pick apart who is holy and why I don’t think so, etc. It is not a good idea to paint with a broad brush that bishops and priests (shepherds) are putting certain things in place of God. Catholics who are struggling to put God first in all aspects of their life have an understanding of what agape love is, as opposed to self-love. Only God knows exactly what degree of virtue or vice is taking place behind certain actions.

Because we have large congregations in many areas, we do need church buildings as a gathering place.
The addition of beautiful art does help uplift the mind and sprit to the Lord. It is safe to say that a large majority of us are not in a spiritual state where such aids to devotion are unnecessary.

We are all in varying degrees of where we should be in the Lord, hopefully striving to become like Him. Mostly, good is hidden away and many are barely recognizing it.

This world is passing away…it is a place where we make choices, and we have many chances to change for the better.
 
nmgauss said:
Is love part of the turmoil going on in the Middle East today? Are the Islamists in Egypt opposing the democrats because of love? How about the ancient conflict between Sunni and Shii Muslims? Where is love?

When the Crusades and Inquisitions were rampant, where was love? If Pope Urban II sponsored the Crusades, love was not in his heart; only enhancement of Church power. Inquisitions were conducted from a repressive and protective viewpoint, not from a position of love. I think Jesus would not approve of many Catholic Church policies, such as placing bishop’s and priest’s welfare above parishioners, money making activities, and ostentatious display of Church wealth. Jesus was about love, not Church power.

Jews have had a long history of being attacked by Christians. Where is love in this?

Why is there so much hatred of Mormons? Also, why are so many Mormons suspicious of Christians? Where is love?
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I'm sure you don't realise it,but you have just explained Tribalism ...
The Crusaders ,Islamists, Jews,Christians ,this country as opposed to that country,this faith opposed to that faith, they are all conducting themselves as tribes … No different to tribal people of millennia… There is no love, no love at all, because this Group ( tribe ) will rarely tolerate another, without conflict… That’s humanity…
 
Phil_Marinus said:
I’m sure you don’t realise it,but you have just explained Tribalism …
The Crusaders ,Islamists, Jews,Christians ,this country as opposed to that country,this faith opposed to that faith, they are all conducting themselves as tribes … No different to tribal people of millennia… There is no love, no love at all, because this Group ( tribe ) will rarely tolerate another, without conflict… That’s humanity…
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And we are saturated with team sports where winning is the only thing that matters. Football is the most aggressive team sport we have, and coaches are always figuring up ways to trounce their opponents. Love is never mentioned.

Maybe people get a greater thrill out of conquering make-believe enemies, than treating them with compassion.
 
nmgauss said:
And we are saturated with team sports where winning is the only thing that matters. Football is the most aggressive team sport we have, and coaches are always figuring up ways to trounce their opponents. Love is never mentioned.

Maybe people get a greater thrill out of conquering make-believe enemies, than treating them with compassion.
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Yes, sports can be an idol.

Sports can be recreational and entertaining.

Each person has to answer for his attitude in this regard.

Because sports and other entertainment can be an idol in place of the Lord does not mean that the Lord and love does not exist…it means that in many He and his grace is ignored.

Look at those who strive daily to live the Love they recognize. Look at the saints…we all have that possibility held out for us…if we cooperate like the saints did. The saints with the Lord, and those on earth reaching for and receiving His grace are our witnesses of what God can do when we let Him.
 
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