The Reformation for Secular Homosexual thinking

[marymary1975]

And things were not going well in seminaries during the 1970s either.

bereanpublishers.com/goodbye-good-men/

Yes, seminarians were taught Humanae Vitae but they were given the impression that the Church might change its teaching on artificial birth control. So when they became priests, and parishioners asked about the subject, they told them it was a personal conscience matter. That has begun to change. Pope Paul VI meant what he said.

1973 Abortion is legalized - not by the people - but by the Supreme Court. My lack of faith in my government drops again.

Read part 16 of the following:

vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_19741118_declaration-abortion_en.html

And it slowly falls further as I see what the media is doing at the movies and on TV. At the time, I didn’t think things were too bad with the media but no one could clearly see what was coming. More and more of the long-haired preachers of pleasure and hedonism appear and openly defy parents and bring scandal to others, all the while being angry of any attempts at proper correction: “We’re grown adults! Leave us alone!!”

1973 In an effort to make years of published research regarding homosexual persons magically disappear, radical gay activists declare war on the American Psychological Association (see Frank Kameny), and gay activists inside and outside the APA manipulate a vote that has it declassified as a disorder.

amazon.com/Homosexuality-American-Psychiatry-Politics-Diagnosis/dp/0691028370

The rest of the 1970s was filled with the words of the vicious, radical anti-family organization, the National Organization for Women. Using the Marxist class warfare model to do this:

Women: The eternal victim class.
Men: The eternal enemies class.

NOW did nothing to stop the rampant sexual exploitation of women or work to help some women and some men to help resolve the real problems that exist between men and women. Today, NOW is 100% pro-abortion, pro ‘gay rights’ and even endorses the idea that it’s OK for women to be prostitutes.

I heard: “Sisters! Throw off the chains of your oppression!” What chains? Men. All men. They were committed to overthrowing the male-dominated world and getting POWER. Overthrow the Patriarchy! Including those old guys running the Catholic Church.

Do you see how this might confuse men and women about their proper roles? No, they said, don’t be a stay at home mom. Get a career! Get POWER!! Overthrow men. Do IT!

1980s Porn on Cable TV. By the mid-1980s, I had lost most of my faith in the media, and my government.

Do you see what all these groups wanted from 1960 till today? Lots of sex with anyone - BY LAW! Get everyone to accept our ‘alternate lifestyles.’

It’s not going to happen. Seminaries are getting more seminarians with a greater zeal. Pope John Paul II and Pope Benedict did much to right the ship.

Have hope. Whatever laws are passed and whatever you hear were manipulated into being.

Peace,
Ed

Thanks for this Ed. One of the reasons why this movement is so successful is because a lot of people suffer from amnesia and don’t remember what has happened. You should write a book or a newspaper article.

 

[marymary1975]

To CopticChristian,

I encourage you to continue to spread the truth. Let me add, I lived through the time period when our Federal, State and local governments respected Christianity. Everyone I knew had shared beliefs and shared values, but here was the goal: to divorce sex from real love. I could watch a movie or something on TV and not be offended. Courtesy, politeness, and decency were the order of the day. No, it was not perfect but we all looked out for each other and we had a healthy sense of shame, guilt and what right and wrong meant. Let’s review how you can turn a country’s idea of what sex should be upside down.

1960 The FDA approves the birth control pill. Keep in mind, most people still lived on farms and in rural areas. Those of us who lived in cities didn’t need a Birth Control Pill. I and my friends were born before it could be sold, and the average number of kids in my neighborhood was two - TWO. And that was true for neighborhoods miles away.

1967 Like any product, manufacturers of The Pill had to market it and it had to have a benefit. What was that benefit? A lie called FREEDOM.

time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,843551,00.html

Read the title to the article: “Contraception: Freedom from Fear.” Fear of what? Babies. We didn’t have this “fear” before, but always keep in mind, at the time we were far more trusting of the media because it reflected our values. The same for experts.

1968 Pope Paul VI drops the bomb. Humanae Vitae reaffirmed constant Church teaching about artificial birth control. Dissidents inside and outside the Church went crazy. It might impact sales! People might actually listen to the Pope!

"Within 24 hours, in an event unprecedented in the history of the Church, more than 200 dissenting theologians signed a full-page ad in The New York Times in protest. Not only did they declare their disagreement with encyclical’s teaching; they went one step further, far beyond their authority as theologians, and actually encouraged dissent among the lay faithful.

"They asserted the following: “Therefore, as Roman Catholic theologians, conscious of our duty and our limitations, we conclude that spouses may responsibly decide according to their conscience that artificial contraception in some circumstances is permissible and indeed necessary to preserve and foster the values and sacredness of marriage.”
Source: Regnum Christi

Pope Paul VI warned that increased promiscuity would occur if his words were not heeded. Meanwhile, long haired, strangely dressed people began to appear in our neighborhoods. They told us to reject all authority. “Don’t trust anyone over 30!” That marriage meant nothing - it was just a piece of paper, and using marijuana and other illegal drugs was a good thing. Live with your girlfriend and have sex with her, or anyone. The lie was sold using the word FREEDOM.

1969 Time to create the ultimate deception campaign to obtain the legalization of the ultimate form of contraception: abortion. Keep in mind, it was drilled into our heads: NO sexual intercourse until marriage. But enemy number one then, as today, was still the Catholic Church. Please read the following attack plan. The same as is being used today.

catholicnewsagency.com/resources/abortion/articles-and-addresses/an-ex-abortionist-speaks/

And those dissidents inside the Church? They were hard at work spreading confusion and trouble during the late 1960s and 1970s.

online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704586504574654282563939764.html

1970s What was meant to totally private was put on display as Adult Bookstores, strip clubs and topless bars were opened across the country. I was shocked. But when we protested, their high-priced lawyers said they had “the First Amendment right” for all of it. I began to lose trust for my government.

continued

In fact Ed, can we turn this into a poster or banner so we can show it to everybody???

 

[djames99]

The Catholic has it so easy it’s a wonder that we make a mountain out of a mole hill.

Cross check with Church Authority. Determine what the Vatican says about a certain issue. References are to be pre-screened always. More and more as the secular world enters it’s inevitable darkness before it returns to the fold, we Catholics worry?, …not a chance.

The secular world would have us think that there is mass confusion and complicated issues. Catholics know that instruction may not play out in our lifetime, but already they say “see, we told you, this hasn’t resulted, or that thing as failed.” The Holy Spirit works at his own pace. Sometimes I think he likes to make it appear we are headed for disaster so that he could change things at the last moment.

We need to sit back and not worry and take the advice of St. Paul just mentioned. Calvin lacked spiritual vision, although he made many contributions, and besides I think clergy should resolve issues on the inside, not from the outside, that realm of the prince of this world. I know a clergy now who wishes to go the Luther route as he objects to many things the Church does. I suggested he try to make changes on the inside, and if it doesn’t go the way he wishes, remain obedient and let the Holy Spirit take charge. If it was meant to be, it will, and no one could change it.

There’s an old prayer that says, “God let me change the things that need to be changed, …(?)…and give me knowledge to know the difference”, someone here may remember it.

 

[CopticChristian]

The Catholic has it so easy it’s a wonder that we make a mountain out of a mole hill.

Cross check with Church Authority. Determine what the Vatican says about a certain issue. References are to be pre-screened always. More and more as the secular world enters it’s inevitable darkness before it returns to the fold, we Catholics worry?, …not a chance.

The secular world would have us think that there is mass confusion and complicated issues. Catholics know that instruction may not play out in our lifetime, but already they say “see, we told you, this hasn’t resulted, or that thing as failed.” The Holy Spirit works at his own pace. Sometimes I think he likes to make it appear we are headed for disaster so that he could change things at the last moment.

We need to sit back and not worry and take the advice of St. Paul just mentioned. Calvin lacked spiritual vision, although he made many contributions, and besides I think clergy should resolve issues on the inside, not from the outside, that realm of the prince of this world. I know a clergy now who wishes to go the Luther route as he objects to many things the Church does. I suggested he try to make changes on the inside, and if it doesn’t go the way he wishes, remain obedient and let the Holy Spirit take charge. If it was meant to be, it will, and no one could change it.

There’s an old prayer that says, “God let me change the things that need to be changed, …(?)…and give me knowledge to know the difference”, someone here may remember it.

Djames,

I had not thought of things quite the way you have.

 

[edwest2]

In fact Ed, can we turn this into a poster or banner so we can show it to everybody???

Sure. I just want to add that the current problems we face had a starting point and a coordinated plan to engineer our thinking. Catholics need to know the history of this plan. We need Catholic cooperation and that means Catholics working together. Sometimes I think the secular mass media is the only way some people see the world. Sadly, as time passed, the media was gradually corrupted as well.

As long as we, and I, are being honest, let’s present the truth. It may disturb us but the mystery of how the present came to be will light the road ahead and make the work of the wolves more visible, saving us from further problems coming just ahead.

Peace,
Ed

 

[edwest2]

Thanks for this Ed. One of the reasons why this movement is so successful is because a lot of people suffer from amnesia and don’t remember what has happened. You should write a book or a newspaper article.

Thank you. Here are a few powerful books that can help to clear what Al Kresta called “the amnesia of the last 40 years.”

amazon.com/Extreme-Makeover-Transformed-Conformed-Culture/dp/1586175610

amazon.com/Noise-Media-saturated-Dominates-Dismantles-Families/dp/1932927948/ref=la_B002JHS3QK_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1365216570&sr=1-4

amazon.com/Adam-Eve-After-Pill-Revolution/dp/1586178229/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1365216630&sr=1-1&keywords=adam+eve+after+the+pill

The “liberation” everybody was told would “free” them has not produced good fruit or happiness.

Peace,
Ed

P.S.

And I may, God-willing, write that book.

 

[CopticChristian]

Thank you. Here are a few powerful books that can help to clear what Al Kresta called “the amnesia of the last 40 years.”

amazon.com/Extreme-Makeover-Transformed-Conformed-Culture/dp/1586175610

amazon.com/Noise-Media-saturated-Dominates-Dismantles-Families/dp/1932927948/ref=la_B002JHS3QK_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1365216570&sr=1-4

amazon.com/Adam-Eve-After-Pill-Revolution/dp/1586178229/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1365216630&sr=1-1&keywords=adam+eve+after+the+pill

The “liberation” everybody was told would “free” them has not produced good fruit or happiness.

Peace,
Ed

P.S.

And I may, God-willing, write that book.

Ed,

The Reformation was marked by stating that the Church has abandoned the gospel and was apostate…it was for this reason that Calvin, Luther, etc separated from the authority of the Church.

In reverse, the Secular world has been garnered by the LGBT in the likes of the American Psychiatric Association, and all societies supporting their agenda.

We do not have to recognize any authority or writings of these named societies. As is the nature of thought the Reformation has begun…

You are aiding in Reforming the mind…some of the Reformation is occurring in the California Courts…I provide here a link to the final brief provided by Liberty Counsel that supports this Reformation of thinking as it regards California SB-1172, attempting to silence NARTH…this should aid the discussion and strengthen the position for others…

lc.org/media/9980/attachments/pr_9th_appeals_ca_change_therapy_final_reply_021913.pdf

The Report found “some evidence” of both alleged harm and benefits produced by SOCE. (ER 00271-72). Notably, “sexual minority adolescents are underrepresented in research on evidence-based approaches, and sexual orientation issues in children are virtually unexamined.” (ER 00313) (emphasis added). The Report concluded “there is a dearth of scientifically sound research on the safety of SOCE. Early and recent research studies provide no clear indication of the prevalence of harmful outcomes . . . because no study to date of scientific rigor has been explicitly designed to do so.” (ER 00264) (emphasis added). The only “evidence” of harm was anecdotal – “some individuals reported being harmed by SOCE.” (ER 00312). This will not suffice as a justification to ban speech, as “the government must present more than anecdote and supposition” to support its burden of proof. Playboy Entm’t, 529 U.S. at 822.

Many, as you know, reference the APA report as evidence of harm and the reality is that the so called harm is anecdotal and was petitioned for to aid the cause of the APA to silence NARTH.

The APA Report acknowledges that SOCE involving minors is “virtually unexamined.” (ER 00313). The Report also points out there is evidence that SOCE on adults is beneficial and that reports of harm on some adults is merely anecdotal. (ER 00271-72, 00312). This lack of evidence does not provide a rational basis to completely ban SOCE involving minors. It is irrational to ban SOCE with minors when the practice has been permitted for decades, there is no research on minors, there is evidence of benefit for adults, and any reports of harm on some adults is merely anecdotal.

Many say that minors are harmed and yet the APA wants to silence anyone that wants to aid minors and prevent any information of aid from surfacing to further promote their point of view that is political and not scientific.

The APA Report admits SSA is “fluid,” which, no matter the debate over “enduring” change, it is clear that SSA can change. Studies reveal that sexual orientation is “not static.” See Fritz Klein, et al., Sexual Orientation: A Multi-Variable Dynamic Process, 11 J. of Homosexuality 35, 44-45 (1985), available at www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1300/J082v11n01_04 (there is a “significant difference between a person’s past, present, and ideal sexual orientation”). “Contrary to the theoretical notion that one becomes fixated in childhood, the sexual orientation of the individuals in this study often changed remarkably.” Id. at 45.

In honesty the APA, contrary to propaganda, states that sexuality is not fixed but fluid.

Appellees’ assertions about “consensus” ignore the American Association of Christian Counselors, an organization with 50,000 members. (ER 00390). The only justification for calling AACC members out of the mainstream is disagreement with their views.

As I noted, there is no need to acknowledge the points of view of the APA and their lackeys…there are other credible organizations with alternate points of view.

The First Amendment does not depend on a show of hands. Indeed,

[t]he very purpose of a Bill of Rights was to withdraw certain subjects from the vicissitudes of a political controversy, to place them beyond the reach of majorities and officials and to establish them as legal principles to be applied by the courts. One’s right to life, liberty, and property, to free speech, a free press, freedom of worship and assembly, and other fundamental rights may not be submitted to vote; they depend on the outcome of no elections.]

While the American Psychiatric Association voted to remove Homosexuality from the DSM, those that dissented remain vocal, as should we…it is not a show of hands that determines our ability to speak against the APA…

 

[edwest2]

Good information. However, for those who have become immune to the hyper-sexualization of the culture, primarily through the media, and who believe all truth comes from the media, we must speak the the truth and look to the Church for further guidance.

Thanks,
Ed

 

[CopticChristian]

Good information. However, for those who have become immune to the hyper-sexualization of the culture, primarily through the media, and who believe all truth comes from the media, we must speak the the truth and look to the Church for further guidance.

Thanks,
Ed

Ed,

Here is another good point…the APA task force for Conversion therapy is often cited…however many do not know the extent of the lack of science involved. Many that oppose conversion therapy, those that accept Essentialism=Born that way…usually ask for

Double blind, peer reviewed studies…and the important thing is that those that accept the APA task force are asking for what they do not do as seen here. Shidlo and Schroeder are often cited as the study that determined the efficacy of Conversion therapy seen here…

Shidlo, A., & Schroeder, M. (2002). Changing sexual
orientation: A consumer’s report. Professional Psychology:
Research and Practice, 33, 249–259.

The second APA paper, presented by Dr. Ariel Shidlo and Dr. Michael Schroeder, reported findings from a study of 202 homosexuals who were recruited through the Internet and direct mailings to groups advocating conversion therapy. Most of the participants (178, or 88%) reported that efforts to change their sexual orientation had failed. Only 6 (3%) achieved what the researchers considered a heterosexual shift. Drs. Shidlo and Schroeder also reported that many respondents were harmed by the attempt to change.

They advertised on the internet and solicited for failures and complaints against Conversion therapy…

So when the secular Homosexual antagonist and supporter that opposes any notion that they are wrong and asks for peer reviewed literature, double blind…or just say PROVE IT…

then you must be ready to say…what is found above and how that information is gahtered and offer…well

let us just advertise on the internet and ask people to submit information for a similar study that substantiates my belief…because…

If it is on the internet it must be true…

 

[edwest2]

The only way to go forward is to expose the methods used, and their bias and incompleteness. Even those considering the priesthood may not be aware of the wounds inflicted upon them, which is why the following document was issued:

vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/ccatheduc/documents/rc_con_ccatheduc_doc_20080628_orientamenti_en.html

Please note part 8.

Too many are not aware that repeating the same thing over and over is the way to sell any product, including a way of viewing the world that is contrary to natural law. Do people think showing a viagra ad on TV just once is enough? Of course not. Our own in-depth studies of advertising techniques written by the finest minds in the field, clearly exposes two key strategies: repetition and emotional appeals. Now, we would not exclude facts or promise anything we could not deliver, but repetition is designed to get the message to “stick” in people’s minds. Our fellow Catholics need to know this.

Peace,
Ed

 

[CopticChristian]

The only way to go forward is to expose the methods used, and their bias and incompleteness. Even those considering the priesthood may not be aware of the wounds inflicted upon them, which is why the following document was issued:

vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/ccatheduc/documents/rc_con_ccatheduc_doc_20080628_orientamenti_en.html

Please note part 8.

Too many are not aware that repeating the same thing over and over is the way to sell any product, including a way of viewing the world that is contrary to natural law. Do people think showing a viagra ad on TV just once is enough? Of course not. Our own in-depth studies of advertising techniques written by the finest minds in the field, clearly exposes two key strategies: repetition and emotional appeals. Now, we would not exclude facts or promise anything we could not deliver, but repetition is designed to get the message to “stick” in people’s minds. Our fellow Catholics need to know this.

Peace,
Ed

Ed,

So, now we have information that people should know about and when it comes to the media GLAAD wants to shutdown opposing views as if the issue is settled…see here…

glaad.org/2011/08/05/glaad-calls-on-npr-to-correct-inaccurate-report-on-so-called-conversion-therapy/

GLAAD Calls on NPR to Correct Inaccurate Report on So-Called “Conversion Therapy”

On Monday, August 1, National Public Radio (NPR) aired a segment during Morning Edition entitled “Can Therapy Help Change Sexual Orientation?” The report claimed that the debate about so-called “conversion therapy” continues in psychological circles. The fact is that all the major psychological and medical associations in the United States have stated that such treatment is ineffective and harmful. The story highlighted only two individuals, Rich Wyler and Peterson Toscano. Both men endured so-called “ex-gay” programs, but have very different views on the validity of such programs. With only two individual stories, NPR gave the false impression that the general population is split on so-called “conversation therapy”.

This is an attempt to say that the Major groups, ie APA etc have settled the argument and we just accept that…not stating that Homosexuals run the American Psychiatric Association or that the

Catholic Medical Association
Catholic Psyhcoanalytic Association
Catholic Social Workers
Christian Counselors

even exist with an opposing view…

 

[edwest2]

A few things to keep in mind in the ongoing attempts to promote what some call “The Culture Wars,” which I believe is an accurate description.

“Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views.” ― William F. Buckley Jr.

Isn’t that what we’re getting? People who are shocked and offended? Other views? “We were right all along… Wait! What? You have another view?”

Or take this group. Please note that they do not offer reparative counseling.

pfox.org/about_us.html

Peace,
Ed

 

[Elizabeth502]

the APA, contrary to propaganda, states that sexuality is not fixed but fluid.

Of course, psychologists have always understood this, but it is now Politically Incorrect to refer to these standards and knowledge.

It is also demonstrated by the optional sexual behavior of those adults who have changed sexual preferences without any program, coercion, or “conversion” – merely, voluntarily. This would include both men and women who always presented as heterosexual and were married, but later, after a divorce, chose a homosexual relationship (often incredibly claiming that “they always actually were homosexual,” or “always felt that way”).

Sane adults in the free world who are not imprisoned are not so masochistic as to enter into sexual relationships which are in fact uncomfortable, let alone startling or repugnant. We would call such a person pathological, and none of these people I have met have such a pathology or such an overpowering ability to deny their true attractions that they have complied with something to which they are averse. Interestingly, they also deny that they are bi-sexual, in the sense of true erotic attraction to both sexes. Rather, the “bi-sexuality” they have demonstrated has been optional and functional in its manifestation. Nevertheless, they continue to insist that homosexual attraction “was what they always felt.” (Yeah. That’s why you forced yourself to engage in sexual relations with the opposite sex for 20 years. ) What propaganda.

 

[marymary1975]

Sure. I just want to add that the current problems we face had a starting point and a coordinated plan to engineer our thinking. Catholics need to know the history of this plan. We need Catholic cooperation and that means Catholics working together. Sometimes I think the secular mass media is the only way some people see the world. Sadly, as time passed, the media was gradually corrupted as well.

As long as we, and I, are being honest, let’s present the truth. It may disturb us but the mystery of how the present came to be will light the road ahead and make the work of the wolves more visible, saving us from further problems coming just ahead.

Peace,
Ed

This is exactly the reason why I refuse to watch TV or listen to news. I check the internet because I have control, if I don’t want to watch I don’t. But yes, it is a very well engineered plan.

 

[CaliLobo]

I do not accept the opinions of the American Psychiatric Association, The American Medical Association, The National Association of Social Workers or any society or professional organization that accepts the LGBT agenda…

I accept the DSM I, DSM II and DSM III…I do not accept the DSM IV or V…and if asked why, because you believe that they are false teachings based on a political point of view and there is no obligation to accept them.

If there is any question…then ask when it will be that they accept the teaching authority of the Church or the acceptance of the Deuterocanonicals…

Revealed truths vs Politicized progpaganda…

Sorry if I offend you, but your posts are arrogant. You have the arrogance to give us academic citations in post #59, but then you categorically reject the DSM IV and V, and by doing so, you ignore the wealth of years of academic research on gays and transgenders that show that it is a normal, real scientific phenomenon that requires social science solutions on how to integrate them in our society.

You keep mentioning Essentialism, as if there’s something wrong with that line of thinking. But what’s so wrong about that? Step one in science is observation. We observe that people are born a certain way. It might not be the determining factor, but it’s a highly persuasive factor that something is normal if someone is born with it. You might say that being gay or trans is a defect, like being born with a disease. But what makes being LGBT a disease? Now we know that it’s more like being born left-handed, or with blue eyes. A minority, but not abnormal, and not a defect in functionality.

Here are some links to the academic work that you are ignoring. Here is a link to LGBT research from Stanford Med School (since you’re a doctor):
med.stanford.edu/lgbt/

And a portal from the Univ of Indiana. Check out the academic journals dedicated to LGBT research:
studentaffairs.iub.edu/glbt/library/library-resources/academic-research/transgender-research/

Also look up “LGBT” in Google Scholar and you can find a wealth of academic research on the topic. Maybe Google Scholar might not be a legitimate enough database for you. But it is considered a legitimate, accepted method of academic research at the university level, in sciences and the humanities. I know, because I’ve had professors who accept it, and I’ve co-written papers almost exclusively using Google research, with no objection from my professors.

You have the arrogance to flat-out ignore the DSM IV and V, even though it is THE manual used by psychiatrists today to diagnose mental illnesses. Isn’t it medical malpractice to ignore the DSM IV and V?

You use your credentials as a physician to appear more authoritative on this subject. But I call your bluff. A practicing physician wouldn’t have the time to post multiple threads on this topic and reply every day, even on Easter. Don’t Catholics have better things to do on Easter? Don’t you have patients to save? Or do you not have patients, since your legitimacy is questioned because you ignore the DSM IV and V?

The truth is that it is normal to observe 2-5% of people as gay, and 0.25-1% of people as transgender. You don’t need a science degree to observe this, all you need is accurate polling. Therefore, since God created these people this way, we should have Christlike compassion and love for them and allow them the same civil rights that are granted to everyone else in our society. What is so difficult for the Catholic Church about this? However, as you know most Western Catholics disagree with the Vatican and are calling for the Vatican to change, or else it will lose relevance in our society and cease to exist in our lifetime.

edwest2:

Well, the Reformation needs a voice. And the constant refrain from the LGBT Lobby is the APA says it’s OK. How do you think this group is allowed to adopt kids? It ends up in court:

"The decision quoted extensively from the lower court ruling where the lower court determined the following based upon the APA’s brief:

"Being raised by gay parents does not increase the risk of problems in adjustment for children.

"Being raised by gay parents does not risk increase the risk of psychological problems for children.

…

"Based upon this information–and not having access to Dr. Rekers’ complete research, the Court asserted: “These facts demonstrate that there is no correlation between the health, welfare, and safety of foster children and the blanket exclusion of any individual who is a homosexual or who resides in a household with a homosexual.”

Courts base their decisions on what the APA claims and count it as evidence. And that’s just one example.

You are indicating that the courts of law are foolish to rely on the APA. But why? Only because of your arrogant opinion that the APA is to be categorically rejected, despite it being the leading body of psychology in the US. What gives you the intellectual authority to reject the leading body of psychology in the US? As a lawyer with a science undergrad degree, I am offended by your criticism of our profession.

P.S. You may criticize me and wonder why I have time, as a lawyer, to reply at almost 3:00 AM Mountain Time. I concede that I slept early tonight and woke up at a weird hour.

 

[CopticChristian]

Sorry if I offend you, but your posts are arrogant. You have the arrogance to give us academic citations in post #59, but then you categorically reject the DSM IV and V, and by doing so, you ignore the wealth of years of academic research on gays and transgenders that show that it is a normal, real scientific phenomenon that requires social science solutions on how to integrate them in our society.

You keep mentioning Essentialism, as if there’s something wrong with that line of thinking. But what’s so wrong about that? Step one in science is observation. We observe that people are born a certain way. It might not be the determining factor, but it’s a highly persuasive factor that something is normal if someone is born with it. You might say that being gay or trans is a defect, like being born with a disease. But what makes being LGBT a disease? Now we know that it’s more like being born left-handed, or with blue eyes. A minority, but not abnormal, and not a defect in functionality.

Here are some links to the academic work that you are ignoring. Here is a link to LGBT research from Stanford Med School (since you’re a doctor):
med.stanford.edu/lgbt/

And a portal from the Univ of Indiana. Check out the academic journals dedicated to LGBT research:
studentaffairs.iub.edu/glbt/library/library-resources/academic-research/transgender-research/

Also look up “LGBT” in Google Scholar and you can find a wealth of academic research on the topic. Maybe Google Scholar might not be a legitimate enough database for you. But it is considered a legitimate, accepted method of academic research at the university level, in sciences and the humanities. I know, because I’ve had professors who accept it, and I’ve co-written papers almost exclusively using Google research, with no objection from my professors.

You have the arrogance to flat-out ignore the DSM IV and V, even though it is THE manual used by psychiatrists today to diagnose mental illnesses. Isn’t it medical malpractice to ignore the DSM IV and V?

You use your credentials as a physician to appear more authoritative on this subject. But I call your bluff. A practicing physician wouldn’t have the time to post multiple threads on this topic and reply every day, even on Easter. Don’t Catholics have better things to do on Easter? Don’t you have patients to save? Or do you not have patients, since your legitimacy is questioned because you ignore the DSM IV and V?

The truth is that it is normal to observe 2-5% of people as gay, and 0.25-1% of people as transgender. You don’t need a science degree to observe this, all you need is accurate polling. Therefore, since God created these people this way, we should have Christlike compassion and love for them and allow them the same civil rights that are granted to everyone else in our society. What is so difficult for the Catholic Church about this? However, as you know most Western Catholics disagree with the Vatican and are calling for the Vatican to change, or else it will lose relevance in our society and cease to exist in our lifetime.

You are indicating that the courts of law are foolish to rely on the APA. But why? Only because of your arrogant opinion that the APA is to be categorically rejected, despite it being the leading body of psychology in the US. What gives you the intellectual authority to reject the leading body of psychology in the US? As a lawyer with a science undergrad degree, I am offended by your criticism of our profession.

P.S. You may criticize me and wonder why I have time, as a lawyer, to reply at almost 3:00 AM Mountain Time. I concede that I slept early tonight and woke up at a weird hour.

Lobo,

I reject the entire DSM as does William Glasser, M.D… I suggested that the DSM IV and DSM V be rejected as a starting point. I am not alone. I have no obligation to accept this, nor does any other Physician. I reject the Disease model of Alcoholism and the 12 step religion of AA. This is based on knowledge and understanding.

Warning: Psychiatry Can Be Hazardous to Your Mental Health [Paperback]
William Glasser

There is no wealth of Psychiatric observation or research that you believe exists. Show it to me. There is no observation that a baby when born is gay. Show this to me.

You provide links to those that accept this nonsense with educational not necessarily supportive and data oriented data. Pull some data that proves your contentions.

I reject your notion that there is support for Essentialism.

Polls are not used to prove anything in the field of medicine except polls to show that Physicians accept or reject certain notions. Polls show that Physicians do not accept the disease model of Alcoholism. Polls show that Depression is over diagnosed and that many Physicians do not follow the DSM.

Stanford has the only University based program for Transgender surgery. What you don’t understand is that it feeds the Plastic Surgery program, it feeds the Psychology department and it makes money and give the University a place in the academic world. It is not a Moral decision for Stanford. It is a monetary decision for Stanford.

I feel sorry for your plight. You have no ability to prove what you contend.

 

[CopticChristian]

Sorry if I offend you, but your posts are arrogant. You have the arrogance to give us academic citations in post #59, but then you categorically reject the DSM IV and V, and by doing so, you ignore the wealth of years of academic research on gays and transgenders that show that it is a normal, real scientific phenomenon that requires social science solutions on how to integrate them in our society.

You keep mentioning Essentialism, as if there’s something wrong with that line of thinking. But what’s so wrong about that? Step one in science is observation. We observe that people are born a certain way. It might not be the determining factor, but it’s a highly persuasive factor that something is normal if someone is born with it. You might say that being gay or trans is a defect, like being born with a disease. But what makes being LGBT a disease? Now we know that it’s more like being born left-handed, or with blue eyes. A minority, but not abnormal, and not a defect in functionality.

Here are some links to the academic work that you are ignoring. Here is a link to LGBT research from Stanford Med School (since you’re a doctor):
med.stanford.edu/lgbt/

And a portal from the Univ of Indiana. Check out the academic journals dedicated to LGBT research:
studentaffairs.iub.edu/glbt/library/library-resources/academic-research/transgender-research/

Also look up “LGBT” in Google Scholar and you can find a wealth of academic research on the topic. Maybe Google Scholar might not be a legitimate enough database for you. But it is considered a legitimate, accepted method of academic research at the university level, in sciences and the humanities. I know, because I’ve had professors who accept it, and I’ve co-written papers almost exclusively using Google research, with no objection from my professors.

You have the arrogance to flat-out ignore the DSM IV and V, even though it is THE manual used by psychiatrists today to diagnose mental illnesses. Isn’t it medical malpractice to ignore the DSM IV and V?

You use your credentials as a physician to appear more authoritative on this subject. But I call your bluff. A practicing physician wouldn’t have the time to post multiple threads on this topic and reply every day, even on Easter. Don’t Catholics have better things to do on Easter? Don’t you have patients to save? Or do you not have patients, since your legitimacy is questioned because you ignore the DSM IV and V?

The truth is that it is normal to observe 2-5% of people as gay, and 0.25-1% of people as transgender. You don’t need a science degree to observe this, all you need is accurate polling. Therefore, since God created these people this way, we should have Christlike compassion and love for them and allow them the same civil rights that are granted to everyone else in our society. What is so difficult for the Catholic Church about this? .

P.S. You may criticize me and wonder why I have time, as a lawyer, to reply at almost 3:00 AM Mountain Time. I concede that I slept early tonight and woke up at a weird hour.

Lobo,

However, as you know most Western Catholics disagree with the Vatican and are calling for the Vatican to change, or else it will lose relevance in our society and cease to exist in our lifetime

Mark time, starting now. No Catholic West of East that disagrees with the Vatican will cause the Vatican to change. Just before your 80th birthday, reflect on this statement so you can understand it’s truth.

You are indicating that the courts of law are foolish to rely on the APA. But why? Only because of your arrogant opinion that the APA is to be categorically rejected, despite it being the leading body of psychology in the US. What gives you the intellectual authority to reject the leading body of psychology in the US? As a lawyer with a science undergrad degree, I am offended by your criticism of our profession.

I ask you to marvel at this statement as a lawyer…

California SB-1172 will be prevented from becoming law because it violates

Freedom of Speech
It is Viewpoint discrimination
It violates a Patients right to self determination

Notice that as we speak the disease model of AA/12 step religion supported by the AMA does not dictate that those that disagree with it cannot perform alternative points of view and aid those that deny that addiction is a disease. Baldwin Research, St. Jude and St. Gregory exist as a testament.

Dr. Coptic states here and anywhere I can that this month SB-1172 will be prevented from becoming law and silencing NARTH.

 

[edwest2]

Sorry if I offend you, but your posts are arrogant. You have the arrogance to give us academic citations in post #59, but then you categorically reject the DSM IV and V, and by doing so, you ignore the wealth of years of academic research on gays and transgenders that show that it is a normal, real scientific phenomenon that requires social science solutions on how to integrate them in our society.

You keep mentioning Essentialism, as if there’s something wrong with that line of thinking. But what’s so wrong about that? Step one in science is observation. We observe that people are born a certain way. It might not be the determining factor, but it’s a highly persuasive factor that something is normal if someone is born with it. You might say that being gay or trans is a defect, like being born with a disease. But what makes being LGBT a disease? Now we know that it’s more like being born left-handed, or with blue eyes. A minority, but not abnormal, and not a defect in functionality.

Here are some links to the academic work that you are ignoring. Here is a link to LGBT research from Stanford Med School (since you’re a doctor):
med.stanford.edu/lgbt/

And a portal from the Univ of Indiana. Check out the academic journals dedicated to LGBT research:
studentaffairs.iub.edu/glbt/library/library-resources/academic-research/transgender-research/

Also look up “LGBT” in Google Scholar and you can find a wealth of academic research on the topic. Maybe Google Scholar might not be a legitimate enough database for you. But it is considered a legitimate, accepted method of academic research at the university level, in sciences and the humanities. I know, because I’ve had professors who accept it, and I’ve co-written papers almost exclusively using Google research, with no objection from my professors.

You have the arrogance to flat-out ignore the DSM IV and V, even though it is THE manual used by psychiatrists today to diagnose mental illnesses. Isn’t it medical malpractice to ignore the DSM IV and V?

You use your credentials as a physician to appear more authoritative on this subject. But I call your bluff. A practicing physician wouldn’t have the time to post multiple threads on this topic and reply every day, even on Easter. Don’t Catholics have better things to do on Easter? Don’t you have patients to save? Or do you not have patients, since your legitimacy is questioned because you ignore the DSM IV and V?

The truth is that it is normal to observe 2-5% of people as gay, and 0.25-1% of people as transgender. You don’t need a science degree to observe this, all you need is accurate polling. Therefore, since God created these people this way, we should have Christlike compassion and love for them and allow them the same civil rights that are granted to everyone else in our society. What is so difficult for the Catholic Church about this? However, as you know most Western Catholics disagree with the Vatican and are calling for the Vatican to change, or else it will lose relevance in our society and cease to exist in our lifetime.

You are indicating that the courts of law are foolish to rely on the APA. But why? Only because of your arrogant opinion that the APA is to be categorically rejected, despite it being the leading body of psychology in the US. What gives you the intellectual authority to reject the leading body of psychology in the US? As a lawyer with a science undergrad degree, I am offended by your criticism of our profession.

P.S. You may criticize me and wonder why I have time, as a lawyer, to reply at almost 3:00 AM Mountain Time. I concede that I slept early tonight and woke up at a weird hour.

The APA was completely blind-sided in 1973 by radical gay activists. It is now considering rubber-stamping pedophiles:

americansfortruth.com/2011/08/25/firsthand-report-on-b4u-act-conference-for-minor-attracted-persons-aims-at-normalizing-pedophilia/

The APA has become a political organization.

amazon.com/Homosexuality-American-Psychiatry-Politics-Diagnosis/dp/0691028370

A wealth of decades of scientific research was made to magically disappear in 1973. The DSM III was not “revised” due to science.

Peace,
Ed

 

[CarlM86]

Sorry if I offend you, but your posts are arrogant. You have the arrogance to give us academic citations in post #59, but then you categorically reject the DSM IV and V, and by doing so, you ignore the wealth of years of academic research on gays and transgenders that show that it is a normal, real scientific phenomenon that requires social science solutions on how to integrate them in our society.

You keep mentioning Essentialism, as if there’s something wrong with that line of thinking. But what’s so wrong about that? Step one in science is observation. We observe that people are born a certain way. It might not be the determining factor, but it’s a highly persuasive factor that something is normal if someone is born with it. You might say that being gay or trans is a defect, like being born with a disease. But what makes being LGBT a disease? Now we know that it’s more like being born left-handed, or with blue eyes. A minority, but not abnormal, and not a defect in functionality.

I don’t know about the research, but as a gay guy, I say that my experience has been different. I see this time and time again, including in myself, that guys who experience same-sex attraction have felt unloved or abandoned or somehow neglected by their fathers as children.

The desire to rediscover that love leads guys like me to seek sex with other men, but nobody finds what they’re looking for, and many end up being promiscuous, leading to extreme levels of sexually transmitted diseases among the MSM (men who have sex with men, but do not necessarily identify as gay or bi) population.

The genesis of the condition is pathological. The condition itself is normal only insofar as it is common, but is detrimental and serves no natural purpose.

The truth is that it is normal to observe 2-5% of people as gay, and 0.25-1% of people as transgender. You don’t need a science degree to observe this, all you need is accurate polling. Therefore, since God created these people this way, we should have Christlike compassion and love for them and allow them the same civil rights that are granted to everyone else in our society. What is so difficult for the Catholic Church about this? However, as you know most Western Catholics disagree with the Vatican and are calling for the Vatican to change, or else it will lose relevance in our society and cease to exist in our lifetime.

2-5% of people are gay. All that means is that it’s common. Science is the study of facts and has nothing to say about the morality of a particular action. So being gay and homosexual behaviour are common, but so is adultery and theft. Just because something is common does not make it right.

The Vatican will not change its stance. I am gay and I don’t need the Vatican to rubber stamp my unfortunate predicament and say it’s okay. If it did, it still wouldn’t make my condition any less pathological.

 

[Dakota_Roberts]

I don’t know about the research, but as a gay guy, I say that my experience has been different. I see this time and time again, including in myself, that guys who experience same-sex attraction have felt unloved or abandoned or somehow neglected by their fathers as children.

The desire to rediscover that love leads guys like me to seek sex with other men, but nobody finds what they’re looking for, and many end up being promiscuous, leading to extreme levels of sexually transmitted diseases among the MSM (men who have sex with men, but do not necessarily identify as gay or bi) population.

The genesis of the condition is pathological. The condition itself is normal only insofar as it is common, but is detrimental and serves no natural purpose.

2-5% of people are gay. All that means is that it’s common. Science is the study of facts and has nothing to say about the morality of a particular action. So being gay and homosexual behaviour are common, but so is adultery and theft. Just because something is common does not make it right.

The Vatican will not change its stance. I am gay and I don’t need the Vatican to rubber stamp my unfortunate predicament and say it’s okay. If it did, it still wouldn’t make my condition any less pathological.

While the most self destructive ones tend to have been unloved or abandoned or somehow neglected by their fathers as children this is true amongst most self destructive things, there is a reason why most of the people that fill the US corrections systems grew up in single parent households.