The Retreat of Courage

[Cruciferi]

An untrained person running into a burning building could just add to the victim list and make the situation worse.

Do you think that courage has any role in our society?

Courage is great but it’s up to the individual to determine if they capable of doing any good.

 

[ricmat]

Courage is great but it’s up to the individual to determine if they capable of doing any good.

I agree. Nobody is Rambo, nobody has hand grenades hidden up their sleeves. There’s very little that one individual can do.

However, we seem to be living in a society which trains us to believe that the only solution capable of doing any good is to wait for the trained authorities to show up.

I don’t know exactly what happened at Parkland, or the Pulse nightclub examples I used. But let’s say that someday we find ourselves facing a shooter in a locked room, and he has 30 people lined up against the wall. We are on the far right. He starts shooting on the far left and every second, he gets off another shot (into another person). Is it better to wait for the authorities to show up, or is it better to rush the assailant (and hope that others follow) and try to knock him down and take away the gun?

I know, a crazy example.

 

[exnihilo]

Actually, no women walked out, 2 out of 3 men did, and none of the 3 came back for any more sessions. What the heck???

That isn’t surprising. The worst feminists I know are men. Those same men tend to get verbally beaten up by women too. They fundamentally misunderstand the nature of the sexes and how women work.

However, we seem to be living in a society which trains us to believe that the only solution capable of doing any good is to wait for the trained authorities to show up.

There is no seems about that. That is what our society teaches. That is what government schools exist to do. That is what socialist or quasi socialist governments indoctrinate.

I agree we generally lack courage. But I can also think of a lot reasons why courage would be casting pearls to swine in our society.

 

[TheAmazingGrace]

Cruciferi, is it foolhardy or rash to run into a burning building to try to save people (like my example in the second post of this thread). Many would say yes. Do you?

Do you think that courage has any role in our society?

As a former volunteer firefighter, the answer would be yes. You’re probably just gonna end up giving the first responders one more person to worry about.

 

[TheAmazingGrace]

I don’t know exactly what happened at Parkland, or the Pulse nightclub examples I used. But let’s say that someday we find ourselves facing a shooter in a locked room, and he has 30 people lined up against the wall. We are on the far right. He starts shooting on the far left and every second, he gets off another shot (into another person). Is it better to wait for the authorities to show up, or is it better to rush the assailant (and hope that others follow) and try to knock him down and take away the gun?

Mass shootings in the US don’t play out that way.

 

[ricmat]

As a former volunteer firefighter, the answer would be yes. You’re probably just gonna end up giving the first responders one more person to worry about.

Actually, the specific example I referred to was 9/11 responders, in post 2.

Those were professional first responders that rushed into the burning tower. Are you saying that doing that gives the volunteer firefighters one more (or in this case 200 more) people to worry about?? Should they not have rushed in? It took tremendous courage to rush in. Was that a bad thing?

Mass shootings in the US don’t play out that way.

It was a hypothetical example, to show that in some cases it might be a good idea to do “something.” The victims were in a sense “already in the building”, and had nothing to lose by taking some sort of action.

So far as I know, in the recent shootings - Parkland, Pulse, the French Theatre… the people being shot were “already in the building.” They all waited for the authorities. And many died. Was “nothing” the best thing to do in those cases? That’s what I’m getting at.

 

[Cruciferi]

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

 

[Tis_Bearself]

I can’t figure out what this thread is supposed to be about

 

[tad]

That’s odd. Why does the President keep telling me that he has to protect me from immigrants and refugees?

Further more, after 15 years of being Catholic and listening to hundreds of homilies, I’ve yet to hear one advocating gun ownership.

I grew up around guns. We learned how to handle them responsibly. It’s not that I can’t handle a gun, it’s that gun culture has gotten so sick I’ve chosen to separate myself from it.

 

[ricmat]

That’s odd. Why does the President keep telling me that he has to protect me from immigrants and refugees?

Further more, after 15 years of being Catholic and listening to hundreds of homilies, I’ve yet to hear one advocating gun ownership.

I grew up around guns. We learned how to handle them responsibly. It’s not that I can’t handle a gun, it’s that gun culture has gotten so sick I’ve chosen to separate myself from it.

With regard to your 3 points above:

1. In the case of Illegal, un-vetted immigrants and refugees, there is a possibility that we need protection from them. Vetted, legal refugees are not a problem.
2. I’ve heard none as well. But then after being Catholic for 65 years, and a daily mass goer for the last 14 years, I have yet to hear an anti-abortion, or anti-gay-marriage sermon.

It is church teaching, however, that husbands (and police, army, etc.) have a non-optional responsibility to protect their families and society at large. Distasteful as it might be, guns are sometimes the best answer to that. Criminals will always have guns, legal or not. That’s why they’re criminals.

1. OK - my misunderstanding.

 

[ricmat]

It started out as described in the first 2 posts.

There are still times these days when courage is required, and even “heroic courage.” It seems to me that in the past, there were always some courageous people who were willing to sacrifice personal safety to stop bad guys, evil guys, etc. I used the example of the 9/11 first responders, and the 9/11 airplane that DIDN’T crash into a building. These were meant to be positive examples of exemplary courage. Well beyond anything I could do personally.

In the modern progressive world of today, it seems that the idea that anyone personally can actually stop a threat of any kind is mocked as “Rambo” crazy talk (see posts above). And we don’t need any such outmoded ideas as this courage stuff. You need to understand that we’ve progressed beyond such nonsense.

When danger appears, don’t do anything, hide in the closet, wait for the authorities and pray like heck that they get there real fast. Yup. That’s the answer. And the result is a whole lot of dead people, because not a single person, or a small group of people could summon up some courage to take any kind of action.

Hey, stop moving!! How can I hit a moving target?!! – would be better than nothing.

 

[TheAmazingGrace]

So far as I know, in the recent shootings - Parkland, Pulse, the French Theatre… the people being shot were “already in the building.” They all waited for the authorities. And many died. Was “nothing” the best thing to do in those cases? That’s what I’m getting at.

Most of the Parkland victims were young teenagers, and the Pulse shooting took place in a darkened night club where people might not have been able to tell exactly who was doing the shooting.

 

[ricmat]

Most of the Parkland victims were young teenagers, and the Pulse shooting took place in a darkened night club where people might not have been able to tell exactly who was doing the shooting.

At the Pulse, perhaps you are right. But there must have been quite a few near the shooter who could see him when he started shooting. In any case, nobody already at the club tried to stop the shooter.

Parkland - that is a huge school, they must have hundreds of teachers and administrators. And there was actually an armed cop on the campus as well. There were a few teachers who died protecting students (taking a bullet), may God bless their souls.

In terms of students, I think this was a high school so there would have been (estimate) over a thousand teens in the 17-18 age range. 18 is the age at which you can be drafted into the military.

Between the cop, the teachers, the administrators, the 18 year olds, the football team (big strong guys), etc. it seems to me that there should/could have been a response other than doing nothing. And I think in past times, there would have been (e.g. 9/11 examples I used in post #2).

Hence my basic question: Where has the Courage gone?

Courage is one of the holy virtues. We need courage, and sacrifice for many things.

Can we survive as a country without courage? Can we survive as a Church without courage?

 

[TheAmazingGrace]

Hence my basic question: Where has the Courage gone?

Courage is one of the holy virtues. We need courage, and sacrifice for many things.

Can we survive as a country without courage? Can we survive as a Church without courage?

How many armed shooters have you thwarted?

 

[tad]

I have the courage to say no to the gun culture of death.

Gun culture is out of control and more guns isn’t going to make it any better.

 

[ricmat]

So far, none. If I’m ever confronted with that situation, I’ll do the best I can.

 

[TheAmazingGrace]

So far, none. If I’m ever confronted with that situation, I’ll do the best I can.

Then don’t accuse people of not having the “courage” to do what you’ve never done.

 

[Cruciferi]

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

 

[ricmat]

I have the courage to say no to the gun culture of death.

Tell me more. I’m not sure how that works. If your family is attacked by someone with or without a gun, how does not having a gun help protect your family better?

Gun culture is out of control and more guns isn’t going to make it any better.

I’m not advocating that everybody get a gun, or that there be a lot more guns. Perhaps a few voluntarily armed and trained teachers…

I’ll agree with “culture is out of control” part of your statement

“Gun culture” - seems to me that it’s more of a crazy person culture. They use guns and knives and drugs and big trucks and fertilizer bombs, nuclear missiles and kinds of other stuff as well. Unilateral disarmament doesn’t seem to work most of the time. So I’ll leave it that “We should all pray for God’s help to settle this big mess!”

 

[Cruciferi]

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
Every police department should own one of these.